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OT: Ville Marie tunnel - Concrete structure collapses

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Old
08-01-2011, 10:55 AM
  #76
ClasslessGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FNK View Post
my dad came home and told us that he was about 5 minutes away from being inside the tunnel when it happened. he woke up late and when he got to the tunnel it was already blocked so thank goodness.
Final destination 1,2,3,4,5 !

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Old
08-01-2011, 11:57 AM
  #77
HH
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Let's change the team name to Montreal Cône Orange.

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Old
08-01-2011, 12:58 PM
  #78
roy munson
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When these events happen I always ask myself "how come old Europe structures stand the test of time, but not ours?". I just hope nobody gets hurt if another failure like that happens.

Not to get too political, but I'm not a big fan of tolls on bridges (at least not in MTL) because i'm not entirely convinced that our good people at the top of the pyramid will not be using that money otherwise. Plus, I doubt their money management skills.

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Old
08-01-2011, 01:10 PM
  #79
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Tolls would be a simple solution however the problem will remain that;

1. Money is going to the hands of the Mafia
2. The timeframe we`re looking at to repairing / building new roads / bridges and benefiting from Toll revenue is = 5 to 10 years

Anyway we look at it, the situation is already messed up, and it`s certainly going to get worse before it gets better...

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Old
08-01-2011, 01:26 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Chuck the Bean View Post
I have to cross the Champlain Bridge twice a day on weekdays and i gotta say i'm getting pretty scared... I work at the new Bell Campus (hate it or love it) just across the bridge and live on the south shore so the Champlain bridge is pretty much my only option... fingers are crossed that the Feds will start building a new one soon...
Well the Feds did just give the state of Michigan 550 mil to help pay for the new ambassador bridge between Windsor and Detroit.

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Old
08-01-2011, 01:39 PM
  #81
Paul Dipietro
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Let's change the team name to Montreal Cône Orange.
...and replace Youppi by Souray

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Old
08-01-2011, 01:44 PM
  #82
Little Nilan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
This structure was built in 1986 and wasn't in bad condition.

It collapsed due to vibrations from the work they were doing in order to build a hospital on top of the highway (CHUM). They were working on the highway structure in order to make it withstand the weight of the hospital on top of it.

So this isn't really about the bad state of our infrastructure (which is really bad, I know), but more about the incompetence of either the engineers who supervised the work or the workers themselves. They are the ones that should have realized the dangers associated with what they were doing.
Yep, vibrations = fundamental frequency/resonance = bridge collapse REGARDLESS of bridge strength/condition. Metro isn't collapsing either wtf is this **** about, a lot of non-engineers commenting on things they don't have a clue about. Not arguing the provinces incompetence/corruption though, contracts need to go to the right people, we pay the most for the least and it's not because we don't have good engineers/construction workers.

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Old
08-01-2011, 01:57 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by subbanged View Post
Just curious, what do you do in NYC and MTL, just seems odd for those two cities.

Also In regards to what your talking about I live in Halifax, NS and we have two bridges,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._Murray_MacKay_Bridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_L._Macdonald_Bridge

The Mackay and the Macdonald, the Mackay was built in the 60's/70's and the other was built in the 50's. They charge us a toll to cross, usually if your a resident it's 70 cents, non residents its 1$. (macpass vs. no macpass). What they do is they then stockpile the money, and do continuous never ending maintenance on them, for example, the bridges each year change a different tint of green. This is because each year they start at one end and go right across to the other. Then they take all the gear to the other side and start painting again. Every five years they replace a lane and every ten they replace the bridge deck. In fact on the older of the two(which is closer to downtown). They've added bike lanes to the sides as well as suicide rails. I honestly couldn't tell you when there was last a maintenance related injury or problem with those bridges. The only issue we have is they do a lot of the paving maintenance during the summer backing traffic up. Also there's discussions about building another bridge soon, that they already have some saved up to put into building it.

Just showing how effective a toll can be, at preventing these kinds of things
You should come check out Vancouver's only toll bridge, the Golden Ears Bridge. This is what it looks like during rush hour:


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Old
08-01-2011, 02:54 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
This structure was built in 1986 and wasn't in bad condition.

It collapsed due to vibrations from the work they were doing in order to build a hospital on top of the highway (CHUM). They were working on the highway structure in order to make it withstand the weight of the hospital on top of it.

So this isn't really about the bad state of our infrastructure (which is really bad, I know), but more about the incompetence of either the engineers who supervised the work or the workers themselves. They are the ones that should have realized the dangers associated with what they were doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
Yep, vibrations = fundamental frequency/resonance = bridge collapse REGARDLESS of bridge strength/condition. Metro isn't collapsing either wtf is this **** about, a lot of non-engineers commenting on things they don't have a clue about. Not arguing the provinces incompetence/corruption though, contracts need to go to the right people, we pay the most for the least and it's not because we don't have good engineers/construction workers.
QFT

They will complete their inspections this week, but i am pretty sure this is due to the construction work for the CHUM. they are building directly over the tunnel. It is a big project that is already being rushed, so im sure that something got overlooked and or a mistake was made. In this case they came out lucky. I still cannot beleive no one was there when it fell.

this does discount the poor state of MTL infrastructure. Unfotunately these are not problems that are easily fixed.not only does it take money, but a lot of time for plans and construction to replace old structures.

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Old
08-01-2011, 03:05 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Peekay Zubban View Post
The crying here is hilarious. OMG were all gonna die!!!!

Take the ****ing metro.
Somehow, I have the bad feeling that concrete will start falling there sooner or later, hope I'm wrong. At least those indoor constructions are not exposed to salt.


Last edited by KFlint: 08-01-2011 at 03:12 PM.
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Old
08-01-2011, 04:47 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
QFT

They will complete their inspections this week, but i am pretty sure this is due to the construction work for the CHUM. they are building directly over the tunnel. It is a big project that is already being rushed, so im sure that something got overlooked and or a mistake was made. In this case they came out lucky. I still cannot beleive no one was there when it fell.

this does discount the poor state of MTL infrastructure. Unfotunately these are not problems that are easily fixed.not only does it take money, but a lot of time for plans and construction to replace old structures.
Exactly, I'm also sure that it was the vibrations and all engineers who works at my job with me say the exact same thing, people just react and say things even if they don't know at all the subject they are talking about. There is also a limit of project they can do at the same time in a city.

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Old
08-01-2011, 05:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
QFT

They will complete their inspections this week, but i am pretty sure this is due to the construction work for the CHUM. they are building directly over the tunnel. It is a big project that is already being rushed, so im sure that something got overlooked and or a mistake was made. In this case they came out lucky. I still cannot beleive no one was there when it fell.

this does discount the poor state of MTL infrastructure. Unfotunately these are not problems that are easily fixed.not only does it take money, but a lot of time for plans and construction to replace old structures.
Umm.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTV Montreal

The Transport Ministry released two inspections of the Viger Tunnel done in 2008 and 2010 on Monday afternoon, and they suggest the state of the infrastructure was of grave concern well before Sunday morning's incident that saw a massive concrete beam fall on the Ville-Marie expressway.

...
In the 2008 report done by SNC Lavalin, the state of the tunnel is considered to be in serious disrepair.

...

The 2008 inspection noted some structural problems associated with the concrete shades that fell and the beams that supported them.

...

The report said the beams holding the shades up were showing cracks and deteriorated concrete near the supports. It also said that beam number one – the one next to the beam that fell – and beam number 17 had lost 25 per cent of their support strength.
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...b=MontrealHome

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Old
08-01-2011, 05:13 PM
  #88
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You guys have never seen what a real third world country looks like, if you're comparing it with Montréal...

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Old
08-01-2011, 07:06 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You should come check out Vancouver's only toll bridge, the Golden Ears Bridge. This is what it looks like during rush hour:

Yeah, ours are a little different everyday the Mackay gets about 60,000 people traveling over it
and the macdonald gets about 50,000 so the bridge gets about 100,000 grand a day from them to cover wages and maintenance. There employees are paid fairly well for what they do too so no one has any quams with it

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Old
08-01-2011, 07:09 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
You guys have never seen what a real third world country looks like, if you're comparing it with Montréal...
Never less, we aren't 3rd world. Every time you cross the border to Ontario or New York State, the Roads are immaculate ! Something is very, very...wrong.

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Old
08-01-2011, 07:38 PM
  #91
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As a realist and political science student I thought I would share my thoughts...

It is indeed unfortunate that current state of infrastructure in Quebec is pitiful and pathetically poor. The economy is very bad in Quebec. What do you think it is compared to the other Canadian provinces? Montreal's budgets are always in the red...and Political scene in this province makes hell look like heaven. Provincially who are Quebec voters to vote for when effectively we live in a one party state...Parti Quebecois?...good luck down that shizer creak without a paddle...To make things worse, in general the populace is complacent is disengaged from politics, effectively spitting on their democratic rights to vote while at the same time our brothers and sisters are dieing to preserve democracy in lands afar...I ask you all are you really shocked by the state of our infrastructure or the sub-par maintenance? I see little point in being discontent and not actively seeking to change the situation....to make things worse...if you are actively seeking to change the situation...good luck you will need it..and outside the box type of mentality...because it is quite hopeless to see any measurable change of the economic and political climate of Quebec in a positive direction...and if you do...well your standards are too low and we should determine and achieve for higher...finally... I used to complain I had no shoes until I saw a man with no feet...

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Old
08-01-2011, 07:53 PM
  #92
JOKER 192
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
What does thumbing noses at the Feds have anything to do with it? City roadway infrastructures is exclusive jurisdiction of provincial legislatures.
Have u ever haerd of transfer payments ?

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Old
08-01-2011, 07:55 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You should come check out Vancouver's only toll bridge, the Golden Ears Bridge. This is what it looks like during rush hour:

There is no one on it because of the ridiculously high tolls If it were, say 1 dollar both ways or even less, we would see more traffic. As well, there are other ways to get to Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows without crossing a toll bridge.

http://www.translink.ca/en/Driving/G...-and-Fees.aspx

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Old
08-01-2011, 08:10 PM
  #94
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It's really frustrating & it makes my angry. If a Bridge or the Turcotte come down & 100's die, then they can all go to Hell! We'll be the embarrassment of North America & worst, the world.

These incidents are re-occurring over & over, almost like warnings. It's time for Quebec to change it's whole focus of priorities, we'll all be trading with China in 10 years anyway.


Last edited by Mike8: 08-01-2011 at 08:27 PM. Reason: removed some political content
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Old
08-01-2011, 08:13 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
QFT

They will complete their inspections this week, but i am pretty sure this is due to the construction work for the CHUM. they are building directly over the tunnel. It is a big project that is already being rushed, so im sure that something got overlooked and or a mistake was made. In this case they came out lucky. I still cannot beleive no one was there when it fell.

this does discount the poor state of MTL infrastructure. Unfotunately these are not problems that are easily fixed.not only does it take money, but a lot of time for plans and construction to replace old structures.
But like I said, I'm not defending them. I don't want to die because I wanted to use my car. The state of the Montreals/provincial money management is horrible.

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Old
08-01-2011, 08:17 PM
  #96
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CTV Montreal Pool, 93% are worried. That's gotta mean something.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLT...CTVNewsMONHome

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Old
08-01-2011, 08:23 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Habs23 View Post
CTV Montreal Pool, 93% are worried. That's gotta mean something.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLT...CTVNewsMONHome

after a event like this, 93% does't mean squat

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Old
08-01-2011, 08:31 PM
  #98
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after a event like this, 93% does't mean squat
If only people from montreal could vote, I'm pretty sure the result would be the same. You're from Gatineau so I don't know if you get to drive here often, but this is the kind of thing you see daily:















See how pathetically frail those structures are ? That's why we're afraid ..

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Old
08-01-2011, 08:33 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Habs23 View Post
CTV Montreal Pool, 93% are worried. That's gotta mean something.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLT...CTVNewsMONHome
Funny thing is a poll says "do you find drivers are becoming more rude", well those 92% should look at themselves.

Stupid polls, don't see how people think polls even come close to accurately speak for a population

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Old
08-01-2011, 08:35 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by chubaka View Post
after a event like this, 93% does't mean squat
That's E-Z to say from Hull! Try driving on the Island & hoping you don't get stuck in traffic under an overpass. People in the area have been watching concrete fall off for over 6-7 years now & how exposed all the rebar metal is. It's no way to live & for the Metro people who say use the Subway/Metro. If the Network was like NYC or yeah! Paris where it goes everywhere, then sure(The airport is still only accessible by auto-route, with no direct train link even), impossible.

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