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Old
07-31-2011, 12:38 PM
  #26
Dr. Ogrodnick
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I don't usually agree with UL, but he is right here. Dubi & Cally would have gotten almost a million more per year on the inflated open market.
Cally and Dubi weren't on the open market, so it's really a moot point to argue.

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07-31-2011, 12:50 PM
  #27
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I'd rather see them both giving Sather a fight. He got it way too easy. The fact they took less will not prevent Sather from trading either when Richards will become next Drury or Gaborik gets shelved with another injury or both. When they end up elsewhere with their underpaid contracts they might regret their loyalty.
The Rangers are not the flyers... They are not going to trade their next Captain in Callahan and a guy who should have an A in Dubinsky. These two are the leaders of the team along with Staal, Sather hasn't traded them previously and we all know the Flames we interested in possibly moving Iginla for a package including one of Dubi or Cally, but now that their contracts are the highest they have ever been and it's their team he is going to trade them? Really?

Sather's UFA track record has been pretty spotty until this season, but he has rarely made trades that infuriate me. The only trade he has made that really disappointed was the Lindros deal IMO. Callahan and Dubinsky aren't going anywhere.

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07-31-2011, 01:41 PM
  #28
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Using UFA contracts as comparable is exactly what he's doing. On twitter, he compared Dubinsky to Leino's contract prior to Dubinsky reaching terms with the Rangers. James Mirtle (or some other Canadian media person) put him in his place with a responding tweet, but I'd assume Brooks simply ignored it.

From July 20th:
I think he meant that Dubinsky would get that IF he was UFA.

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07-31-2011, 02:05 PM
  #29
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Do you even ****ing read the guy? I get that he bothers some people and says some stupid things, but what the **** are you talking about? The whole everytime Brooks writes anything and 90% of this board cries and whines about it is so obnoxious at this point it's ridiculous.

Where are your links to his articles that support all your crap? I know for a fact you either don't read him or just hate him to the point of saying ridiculous nonsense.

Brooks needs to write about players well known throughout the league? He writes for a NEW YORK newspaper. Do you want him giving you up dates on the Wild's farm system or something?

Some of you people are so ridiculous when it comes to Brooks. Get over it already. He has a job covering the Rangers and you don't. Boo-hoo.
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

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07-31-2011, 02:06 PM
  #30
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NYP_Brooksie Larry Brooks

Ville Leino is getting $4.5M per for six years....you don't think Dubinsky would get between $5-5.5M? Please.
If Dubinsky was UFA this summer, I think he's $4.5M, maaaaybe up to $5M with UFA markups but I doubt it'd go that high. A lot of players set the mark at $4.5M like Leino, Ladd, and Backes. Next summer? The summer after? When he is actually a UFA, yeah he should probably command $5M but not now. Larry should know better than to compare UFA to RFA salaries. After all he seems to know the difference between RFA w/ and w/o arbitration rights.

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07-31-2011, 04:28 PM
  #31
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I'm really surprised not only by the number of people that would go along with this "Callahan is being paid just as his comparables are," but also by some of the posters that are going along with that. Some of you I expect much better from.

It's a bargain of a deal for Callahan, because none of those players are actual comparables. He's better than all of those names. But that's the thing with the contract. It's cheap because it's only for 3 years (which is why I'm not a huge fan of it, would have preferred a 5 year deal, even if it meant a cap hit of $5-5.2...to say that he's undeserving of that would be a bit absurd, IMO).

I mean, man, if I read one more time that Andrew Ladd is a comparable to Callahan...Let me put it this way: if all that Callahan was was an Andrew Ladd, his picture would not have a near-permanent place in my avatar. Andrew Ladd is a comparable to Dubinsky. Not to Callahan.

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07-31-2011, 04:36 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
The whole reason we'd have a solid, loyal core is because we've resisted the calls from Larry Brooks to trade for Superstar A and Suprestar B, sign Superstar A and B.

Larry Brooks needs to write about players well known throughout the league. He likes trades and free agent signing because it's something he can write about that doesn't take much effort to obtain information. A cookie cutter article that you'd find on most any newspaper. He doesn't want to spend the time researching to write about the game or it's younger, unknown generation. Now that some of these young players are turning into stars he has something to write about.

We built a team the way fans always wanted, not the way Larry Brooks and other media types have been calling for all these years..

Its one thing to not like Brooks, its quite another to frame an argument on something that just simply isnt true.

Just a suggestion, but you should probably read some of Brooks' stuff before coming off so woefully uninformed.

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07-31-2011, 06:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I'd rather see them both giving Sather a fight. He got it way too easy. The fact they took less will not prevent Sather from trading either when Richards will become next Drury or Gaborik gets shelved with another injury or both. When they end up elsewhere with their underpaid contracts they might regret their loyalty.
lol. So glad 94 is here to temper all the good feelings heading into this year.

Hey 94, what's going to be your first conspiracy theory heading into this year? I'm actually looking forward to it. Can't wait for hockey season!

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07-31-2011, 06:46 PM
  #34
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Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
I actually slept pretty good! I just hate how every thread that has anything to do with Brooks in any way turns into a thread where you have to sift through a thousand posts where people say things that make ZERO sense and just rip on LB. The guy isn't that great, I'm not his biggest fan. But the vitriol he receives is ridiculous, and usually people say stuff that's not even true.

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07-31-2011, 08:52 PM
  #35
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LB should be the one taking less, less drugs so he stops writing nonsense.

These contracts were par for the course.

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08-01-2011, 10:45 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I'm really surprised not only by the number of people that would go along with this "Callahan is being paid just as his comparables are," but also by some of the posters that are going along with that. Some of you I expect much better from.

It's a bargain of a deal for Callahan, because none of those players are actual comparables. He's better than all of those names. But that's the thing with the contract. It's cheap because it's only for 3 years (which is why I'm not a huge fan of it, would have preferred a 5 year deal, even if it meant a cap hit of $5-5.2...to say that he's undeserving of that would be a bit absurd, IMO).

I mean, man, if I read one more time that Andrew Ladd is a comparable to Callahan...Let me put it this way: if all that Callahan was was an Andrew Ladd, his picture would not have a near-permanent place in my avatar. Andrew Ladd is a comparable to Dubinsky. Not to Callahan.
First, you make it sound as if Dubi and Cally are worlds apart. I'm sure there are plently of Dubi supporters here who could reasonably argue that Dubi might be a better value (you probably know what these are anyway). And speaking of reasonable arguments, "near-permanent place" in your avatar is NOT a good argument.

On the subject, I think Staal signed his contract with home discount. Cally and Dubi got the market price based on the current market, their RFA / UFA status & number of UFA year they "gave up". People have to remember that in hockey contracts are guaranteed so it is also in player's best interest to sign longer contracts. It's called job security.

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Old
08-01-2011, 11:08 AM
  #37
94now
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
lol. So glad 94 is here to temper all the good feelings heading into this year.

Hey 94, what's going to be your first conspiracy theory heading into this year? I'm actually looking forward to it. Can't wait for hockey season!
Richards is one really good hit to the head away from playing less games than Drury last season.
Look, I predicted that Shannahan will be injured and I was ridiculed here by those who said that man has always been perfectly healthy. Yet Shanny collided with Knuble and has never really recover from it. Unlike Richards, Shannahan had no previous history. I am sure there are punks out there that would like to make history and be remembered the way Stevens is remembered. So if you think it is conspiracy to be laugh at, ask Crosby what he thinks about his injury, ask him if it was an accident or not.
Without Richards team is no way near the playoffs. If team doesn't make the playoffs, the heads will roll, the players will be traded, because Richards injury cannot be used as a valid excuse. That is how Sather in order to save his job could alter his plans of having Calli and Dubi around for a long time.

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08-01-2011, 11:36 AM
  #38
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Richards is one really good hit to the head away from playing less games than Drury last season.
Look, I predicted that Shannahan will be injured and I was ridiculed here by those who said that man has always been perfectly healthy. Yet Shanny collided with Knuble and has never really recover from it. Unlike Richards, Shannahan had no previous history. I am sure there are punks out there that would like to make history and be remembered the way Stevens is remembered. So if you think it is conspiracy to be laugh at, ask Crosby what he thinks about his injury, ask him if it was an accident or not.
Without Richards team is no way near the playoffs. If team doesn't make the playoffs, the heads will roll, the players will be traded, because Richards injury cannot be used as a valid excuse. That is how Sather in order to save his job could alter his plans of having Calli and Dubi around for a long time.
so this was all an evil plan to use Cally/Dubi has trade chips? Where are you going with this?

Your Crosby point ends up crapping on your Richard point. The fact of the matter is that any of our players, history or not can run into the wrong guy at the wrong time and suffer a severe concussion. Nobody can predict them, and every player is different. Should we not field a team b/c all of them can get concussed?

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Old
08-01-2011, 11:38 AM
  #39
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Without Richards team is no way near the playoffs. If team doesn't make the playoffs, the heads will roll, the players will be traded, because Richards injury cannot be used as a valid excuse. That is how Sather in order to save his job could alter his plans of having Calli and Dubi around for a long time.
Because this team was no where near the playoffs last season, without Richards, a slumping Gaborik, and 280+ games lost due to injury?

My question is this, what player in the NHL isn't "one really good hit away" from missing significant time?

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08-01-2011, 11:52 AM
  #40
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Brooks is crazy...They got more than $4M per. Your team had a nice summer, but those contracts aren't exactly anything to write home about. Pretty standard.

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08-01-2011, 12:12 PM
  #41
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Because this team was no where near the playoffs last season, without Richards, a slumping Gaborik, and 280+ games lost due to injury?
Gaborik needs centre to score his goals. His puck possession time must be minimal. I do not expect Gaborik to be much better without Richards unless Anisimov would progress fast. I doubt the latter, two more years are needed for Anisismov to reach the elite level he could get at. S

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
My question is this, what player in the NHL isn't "one really good hit away" from missing significant time?
Plumbers do not get as much concussions as elite players. It is not because their heads are stronger or something. It is because their heads are targeted less. If Mike Rupp will NOT end up playing on first line to protect Rangers best assets I will eat my hat. Based on what I posted earlier Dubi and Cali as well as pretty much everyone else must take Mike to dinner often. ;-)

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08-01-2011, 12:28 PM
  #42
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Richards is one really good hit to the head away from playing less games than Drury last season.
Look, I predicted that Shannahan will be injured and I was ridiculed here by those who said that man has always been perfectly healthy. Yet Shanny collided with Knuble and has never really recover from it. Unlike Richards, Shannahan had no previous history. I am sure there are punks out there that would like to make history and be remembered the way Stevens is remembered. So if you think it is conspiracy to be laugh at, ask Crosby what he thinks about his injury, ask him if it was an accident or not.
Without Richards team is no way near the playoffs. If team doesn't make the playoffs, the heads will roll, the players will be traded, because Richards injury cannot be used as a valid excuse. That is how Sather in order to save his job could alter his plans of having Calli and Dubi around for a long time.
Didn't we just make the playoffs WITHOUT RICHARDS???

Seriously, give your head a shake

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08-01-2011, 12:38 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Didn't we just make the playoffs WITHOUT RICHARDS???

Seriously, give your head a shake
We were borderline team that got in last moment due to extra effort. That effort may not be there this season. The best are signed to the contract they were working so hard for last season. Thus they could be less interested is saving their beloved coach job once the ship start sinking.

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08-01-2011, 05:39 PM
  #44
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We were borderline team that got in last moment due to extra effort. That effort may not be there this season. The best are signed to the contract they were working so hard for last season. Thus they could be less interested is saving their beloved coach job once the ship start sinking.
What gives you any indication they don't like Tortorella? Don't project how you feel onto people you've never met or spoken to. Your entire arguement is based on the Rangers crapping the bed and revolting against their coach after getting their new contracts. If you think so little of this team's character and make-up and this coach why are you a fan of this team? And let's assume you're right for one minute. Will that make you feel better? That "I told you so" would be very satisfying but guess what? You'd have wasted your time cheering for a team you obviously really don't like in any way. Find a team that does things the way you like and cheer them on. You'll save yourself alot of aggravation.

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08-01-2011, 08:39 PM
  #45
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What gives you any indication they don't like Tortorella? Don't project how you feel onto people you've never met or spoken to. Your entire arguement is based on the Rangers crapping the bed and revolting against their coach after getting their new contracts. If you think so little of this team's character and make-up and this coach why are you a fan of this team? And let's assume you're right for one minute. Will that make you feel better? That "I told you so" would be very satisfying but guess what? You'd have wasted your time cheering for a team you obviously really don't like in any way. Find a team that does things the way you like and cheer them on. You'll save yourself alot of aggravation.
Too late. Have been a Ranger fan for very long. Was probably before you were born.

Players may love the coach and yet quit on him. Disciplinarians like Torts are never truly loved, though. That is why they got fired so often. I do not exactly like what Sather is building here. I do not share all that hype about young players. It's is not enough to be just young. Core players the club is built around must be young forwards with potential to become elite as team evolves. Our elite forwards are not young. Our young forwards will never be elite. Can't build around defensemen. No elite players there either. No matter how many years I would wish Staal will become Letang it will not happen. The one D with elite potential was sent down because no one had patience to keep him around.

Anyway... While I do not like the direction this team is going, I do not insist they will necessarily fail this season. They have solid players, true. It depends on Richards and Lundqvist. Very much like it was depending on Jagr and Lundqvist earlier. One is out, the team is out. That's it. Neither Dubi or Cali will have much of the effect, IMO, as they are still complimentary performers and will be such for good. Failure was just one of the possible scenarios I needed to show how home discount works against those who are okay with it..


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08-01-2011, 08:51 PM
  #46
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YESSSSSSSSSS hockey season is coming!!!!

<3 you 94now.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

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08-02-2011, 08:31 AM
  #47
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Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/islan...#ixzz1Tg0kC9g4

All of those players still received very good money. Their contracts are comparable to other similar players.
And this willingness to work with Sather to retain cap flexibility to help the team, along with the obvious high level of play, at is why, along with the fact we want to try and keep this line together, I am resistant to suggestions that say let's deal one of them, or Staal, to trade up --- unless every other option is exhausted and the return is a Stamkos.

Not that anyone's counting, but another fine post, RangerBoy,

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08-02-2011, 09:03 AM
  #48
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fair contracts all around. Boyle was a bit more hefty than I anticipated, but hopefully he keeps developing.

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08-02-2011, 11:02 AM
  #49
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08-02-2011, 12:00 PM
  #50
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It's is not enough to be just young. Core players the club is built around must be young forwards with potential to become elite as team evolves. Our elite forwards are not young. Our young forwards will never be elite. Can't build around defensemen. No elite players there either. No matter how many years I would wish Staal will become Letang it will not happen. The one D with elite potential was sent down because no one had patience to keep him around.
It's not the easiest thing in the world to find a great player out of the top 5 of the draft. Is it possible? Sure.

I took the top 60 point scorers and eliminated anyone 29 and older. I then found their draft position. There were a total of 38 players in the remaining group. Of those 39% or 15 were top 5 picks. If you include picks 6-10, then it's 17 or 45%.

Sure that means that the other 61% or 55% were outside of the top 5 or 10. Of the 21 non-top 10 picks, 8 were first rounders, 13 were not.

Anyway, if I take all of the non-top 10 picks, and find their draft years, 11 of the 21 players were taken in the infamous 2003 draft. 2 in 2001, leaving 8 which were taken in 2004 - 2006 (2-2-4 respectively). So if we spread those 8 players over 3 drafts, that means that an average of 2 2/3 players from each draft taken outside of the top 10 developed into top 60 scorers for last year. If you want to include the 2001 draft, then 2.50.

So if we take into account that the Rangers have only had one top 10 pick in that time (#10), I don't see why anyone can ever complain about the Rangers having no true young stars.

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