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[NJD] Trent Hunter and Colin White for buyout [Both Cleared and Bought Out]

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Old
08-01-2011, 09:21 PM
  #151
NFITO
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Just going to stomp a little on your Lou theory. New Jersey drafted poorly for 7 or so years, in that time Lou did what any respectable GM would do, who wants to win that is, he went out and had to pay for 2nd, 3rd, 4th liners and defensmen. When you go through UFA to fill holes, you will overpay and get contracts with a poor term.

I dare you to find a team with a poor drafting record the last 10 years who has had success through FA and made playoffs nearly every year (- the MacLean freak year).
How exactly are you stomping on my "Lou theory" by suggesting he's the GM of a team with a poor drafting record for 7 years? Isn't it the GM's responsibility to rectify that problem? And if it's gone on for that many years, how is it not his fault?

I dare you to find a GM who's team has had a bad drafting record for 10 years who wasn't considered a bad GM?

If the Devils' drafting was so bad, then Lou needs to shoulder the blame. As you said you don't cover up bad drafting by filling your roster with FA moves - a recipe for disaster and directly results in poor cap management, which is exactly what we're seeing.

If you want to "stomp on my Lou theory" best not to use reasons which make the GM look even worse.

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08-01-2011, 09:29 PM
  #152
Joey Moss
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It doesn't work like that. There is no order to put in a claim. All teams put in claims at the same time and whoever has the highest priority wins.

Once a player is put on waivers (waivers are processed every day @ 12PM New York time) all teams are notified and have 24 hrs (48 hrs if waivers start on Sat or Sun) to put in a claim. After 24/48 hrs, if any team(s) put in a claim, whichever team had the highest priority(*) gets the player - if not, he clears.

(*) priority is based on the reverse order of the standings (based on pts/game played). Before Nov 1, the priority is based on the previous years standings, on or after Nov 1 it is based on the current ones.
This is the off-season ruling, correct? Because I am positive it's based on standings during the regular season.

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08-01-2011, 09:41 PM
  #153
Jason MacIsaac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
How exactly are you stomping on my "Lou theory" by suggesting he's the GM of a team with a poor drafting record for 7 years? Isn't it the GM's responsibility to rectify that problem? And if it's gone on for that many years, how is it not his fault?

I dare you to find a GM who's team has had a bad drafting record for 10 years who wasn't considered a bad GM?

If the Devils' drafting was so bad, then Lou needs to shoulder the blame. As you said you don't cover up bad drafting by filling your roster with FA moves - a recipe for disaster and directly results in poor cap management, which is exactly what we're seeing.

If you want to "stomp on my Lou theory" best not to use reasons which make the GM look even worse.
It is hard to determine when a drafting strategy is gone sour, NJ takes 4 or 5 years with most prospects so by the time Ahonen, Suglobov, and Laine's are not developing it has been 5 or 6 years. I will tell you, New Jersey has fixed that problem and you will see them below the cap the next 5 years due to strong drafts. We have so many big mobile defensmen that we will not need to overpay Greene or Fayne when their contract is up.

Also, you don't exactly blow up a scouting staff that won you 3 stanley cups and was considered the best in the NHL for 10-15 years.

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08-01-2011, 10:02 PM
  #154
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White was the next Paul Martin just a season ago...
Say whaaa??

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08-01-2011, 10:06 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
This is the off-season ruling, correct? Because I am positive it's based on standings during the regular season.
During the off season, actually from the start of the League Year (July 1) until Nov 1, the priority is based on the previous years standings - so right now Edmonton has the highest priority. On or after Nov 1, it is based on the current years standings - based on %-age of possible points earned to account for differences in games played.

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Old
08-01-2011, 10:18 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
It is hard to determine when a drafting strategy is gone sour, NJ takes 4 or 5 years with most prospects so by the time Ahonen, Suglobov, and Laine's are not developing it has been 5 or 6 years. I will tell you, New Jersey has fixed that problem and you will see them below the cap the next 5 years due to strong drafts. We have so many big mobile defensmen that we will not need to overpay Greene or Fayne when their contract is up.

Also, you don't exactly blow up a scouting staff that won you 3 stanley cups and was considered the best in the NHL for 10-15 years.
who said anything about "blowing them up" ... New Jersey has great scouts and they're all highly reputable. But if you go through 7 years without good drafting - as you suggested - you need to look into the situation. That doesn't mean you blow it up. Maybe the problem is at the development level, their minor league system, their skills and development coaches? Maybe they need to supplement that scouting staff with more bodies?

I certainly would never consider "blowing up" that scouting staff... they've proven to be too good for too long. Drafting and overall development however was not my issue with Lou's work since the lockout, although I do believe that when you go that long without something coming in, you need to evaluate the situation.

It's the specific moves he's made and the number of them that have failed. This may happen with other GMs, but you don't expect that many mistakes by a GM who's earned his reputation as a HOF GM for what he's done 10+ years ago. It's been too many years now where it seems that he's treading water rather than improving overall. Too many good players walking away without anything to show for them... too many contracts that don't play up to the level they've been paid.

And again, I'm not taking anything away from Lou's career as a GM. One of the game's greats - all-time. To me however, he's not at that level anymore. Doesn't mean I think he's trash and the worst in the game. I just haven't seen anything from him since the lockout that makes him come across as anything more than an average GM. Hasn't been able to retain his key players to good contracts, hasn't been able find the right FAs out there and get them on good contracts. And hasn't been able to get much back for the many veterans that have walked as FA - either in trade, via other UFA replacements, or developed within the system. All that points to me that he's average now. And because we're looking at multiple years were this has all happened - consistently since the new CBA has come in, I'm more inclined to believe that his time as that great HOF worthy GM, is over.

Nothing wrong with that. He's had a career that most other GMs will never touch. But I just don't see him in his "prime" anymore. Whether that's due to the changes in the game, the changes with the CBA, or simply age (we all get old and past our prime regardless of what we do in life), the results aren't the same, and haven't been for the past several years.

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08-01-2011, 10:42 PM
  #157
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Why trade for Hunter if you just buy him out. Why not ask NYI for a draft pick then?

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08-01-2011, 10:46 PM
  #158
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Why trade for Hunter if you just buy him out. Why not ask NYI for a draft pick then?
So you can get rid of the huge cap hit of Brian Rolston's contract.

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08-01-2011, 11:01 PM
  #159
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Why trade for Hunter if you just buy him out. Why not ask NYI for a draft pick then?
Obviously the Islanders wouldn't take Rolston without moving out salary in the process.

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08-01-2011, 11:14 PM
  #160
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Obviously the Islanders wouldn't take Rolston without moving out salary in the process.
Hunter was only like 2 Mill tho, Isles can certainly afford that, if they are willing to take on Rolston's even bigger contract. They are well below cap roof.

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08-02-2011, 12:11 AM
  #161
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White was the next Paul Martin just a season ago...
What? No one who has seen 30 seconds of the way each of them plays would make that statement. Are you new to hockey?

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08-02-2011, 12:16 AM
  #162
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What? No one who has seen 30 seconds of the way each of them plays would make that statement. Are you new to hockey?
not at all, I just remember some Devils fans stating this a summer ago, for some reason.

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Old
08-02-2011, 12:21 AM
  #163
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not at all, I just remember some Devils fans stating this a summer ago, for some reason.
You must be thinking of Andy Greene.

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08-02-2011, 12:48 AM
  #164
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You must be thinking of Andy Greene.
he's got his colors mixed up

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08-02-2011, 12:52 AM
  #165
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he's got his colors mixed up
This rules

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08-02-2011, 01:02 AM
  #166
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wow looks like that kovy deal is looking more awful by the day.
i thought IK contract would effect Parise resigning but i didn't think it would result in the devils going into penny pinch mode.

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08-02-2011, 01:09 AM
  #167
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he's got his colors mixed up
Touché, good sir. Touché


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08-02-2011, 04:40 AM
  #168
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I would of taken White over Lilja every day of the week

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08-02-2011, 04:43 AM
  #169
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I'd take a chance on White.

Giordano-Bouwmeester
Sarich-Babchuk
Butler-White

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08-02-2011, 08:06 AM
  #170
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wow looks like that kovy deal is looking more awful by the day.
i thought IK contract would effect Parise resigning but i didn't think it would result in the devils going into penny pinch mode.
I don't know if that's what actually is going on, but if it is, the Devils could have real problems next season if they don't resolve those issues quickly.

Kovalchuk's 2011-2012 salary is only $6m.

Kovalchuk's 2012-2013 salary is $11m (it increases by a whopping $5m and stays above $11m for the next five seasons).

If the Devils are strapped financially this year, they're going to have real problems paying Kovalchuk $11m and give Parise a raise (one would have to expect to see Parise getting long-term offers paying $12+m in 2012-2013 salary if he makes it to July 1st).

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08-02-2011, 09:23 AM
  #171
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Would love White on the Hawks. Hometown boy.

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08-02-2011, 09:35 AM
  #172
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Would love White on the Hawks. Hometown boy.
um... what?

EDIT OH. your hometown boy.

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08-02-2011, 09:40 AM
  #173
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Hunter was only like 2 Mill tho, Isles can certainly afford that, if they are willing to take on Rolston's even bigger contract. They are well below cap roof.
Because he's finished as a hockey player

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08-02-2011, 12:15 PM
  #174
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Wasn't the waiver deadline 12 ET? What's the word?

Edit: They both cleared.

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08-02-2011, 12:22 PM
  #175
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Hunter was only like 2 Mill tho, Isles can certainly afford that, if they are willing to take on Rolston's even bigger contract. They are well below cap roof.
Understatement of the decade right there.

Both cleared. http://twitter.com/#!/renhockey/stat...27463687872512

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