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Trade and 2012 UFA possibilities to add another scorer

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Old
08-01-2011, 09:06 AM
  #101
pwoz
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Slats will have plenty of cap space to sign Parise with Wolski/Avery/buyout/etc opening up, but it would be a problem a couple years down the line with ELCs expiring.. still I'd do anything to get Parise as UFA.

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08-01-2011, 09:11 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
An aging Bruce Driver? A terribly miscast and overpaid Bobby Holik? A clueless Scott Gomez? Parise is better than all of these players combined on their best day.

This is a smaller example of a flawed theory that emerged during all the Brad Richards discussions - that the Rangers are simply "cursed" when it comes to signing UFA's, so they simply shouldnt do it. I guess its a lot easier to justify the disasters that way than just admitting it was terrible player evaluation by Rangers brass. These decisions need to be made on a player by player basis rather than some sort of superstition.
Good points as well but hope you're not going to make too much out of some conflicting--possibly contradictory thoughts on my part at this stage. Rangers have made huge UFA mistakes though. One would think that whoever signs Parise is not going to be making a mistake just because he is a legit quality 1st line player who gives his all almost every night.

As far as present day big ticket players we've acquired via UFA--Richards should be excellent--Gaborik was his first season and hopefully will get back on track.

The Rangers seem to have a strategy in place that depends upon a solid foundation of player development and have built a base where acquiring elite level players like Gaborik, Richards--and maybe in the future Parise--is the way for them to level the playing field as regards talent. It won't work IMO without the player development and continued graduations of younger/cheaper talent--e.g.--Staal, Girardi, Callahan, Dubinsky who are gradually going up the pay scale and Stepan, McDonagh, Anisimov, Sauer, Boyle, Prust at the lower end of the pay scale and Kreider, Thomas, McIlrath, Miller etc, who in the next couple years will turn pro.

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08-01-2011, 09:16 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
No way Sather would offer that much for a guy who could be a UFA next summer.

Anyway, I don't see Parise on the Rangers ever, for multiple reasons.
I felt the same way about Parise being a Ranger until the day he signed that 1 year contract. The possibility of it increased significantly, but it obviously is still a long shot.

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08-01-2011, 12:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
2012-13 New York Rangers

LINE 1: Chris Kreider - Brad Richards - Marian Gaborik

LINE 1A: Brandon Dubinsky - Artem Anisimov - Ryan Callahan

LINE 1B: Zach Parise - Derek Stepan - Christian Thomas

LINE 4: Michael Rupp - Brian Boyle - Brandon Prust

Marc Staal - Dan Girardi

Michael Sauer - Michael Del Zotto

Tim Erixon - Ryan McDonagh

Henrik Lundqvist
Chad Johnson

Line 1b better be seeing more icetime then line 1a.

Also, one of those things is not like the other...

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08-01-2011, 01:27 PM
  #105
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I see what everyone is talking about with the pricetag with what Parise would cost.. But a 28yo 1st line LW, who is basically an 80pt player who plays in all facets of the game is worth the 6.5m per year contract. \

He would finally make us a cup contender and give us a complete elite 1st line.

We could spread out our scoring to have 2-3 top lines with an outstanding goalie and young talented defense.

He would come here bc its not a big move from NJ. NYR are a MUCH better team, young and primed for a cup run and to continue to get better. Plus he would not have to be a captain.

Our money problems wont be to much of an issue. We have a constant influx of young guys coming into our lineup. With players like Wolski, Avery, EC, MZA, and Feds not coming back we are saving 9-10m in the cap. Signing Parise for caphit of 6.5, would leave us with 2.5m remaining. Giving us a lineup of this..

Dubinsky Richards Gaborik
Parise Stepan Callahan
Krieder Anisimov Thomas
Rupp Boyle Prust

We also have alot of ifs and question marks on defense with who will step up and improve and who doesnt belong. If Sauer and Mcdonagh can continue their progress and show they are capable of pushing Girardi down the depth chart and Erixon can play well enough to be on par with Girardi, then by next year we could make a big splash in a trade..

Maybe a Girardi, Boyle, b- prospect, for something.

Alot will depend upon different players this season. So we will see..
If salary cap in the future you think will be the problem well i dont really see it that way. Gaborik comes up in 2 years and we can save that money from him and use it other places or we can resign him for cheaper than what he is making and for less years. Then there are players like Boyle who can be traded, along with Girardi. Its a problem for us to have but a good problem. We could end up set up just like the Bruins are.. All that great talent, along with alot of young talented players coming up.. they were able to trade Kessel.. for everything they got. Why couldnt that happen with us, signing parise, then making a trade in the next year of a Gaborik, Girardi, ++ for Doughty aha

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Old
08-01-2011, 01:48 PM
  #106
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And there is no point in worrying about future cap problems. You just deal with it when it comes up. It is easy to trade very good players and get quality return. We also don't exactly have stud players in our lineup that are going to all of sudden need a huge raise. I can see the argument about Stepan possibly becoming a stud, but you cross that bridge when you come to it. Can you imagine not signing Parise because you were worried about future cap concerns and than find out that the problems never actually happen? Yeah... that is one way to get fired as a GM.

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08-01-2011, 02:10 PM
  #107
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Parise would be amazing. Whether it be via trade, or free agency. An amazing talent, and another American born addition to the core.

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Old
08-01-2011, 02:55 PM
  #108
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Every team has overpaid players. Building a contender is about overpaying for the right players.

In the scenario that Parise hits UFA, he is the right player at the right time to put us over the top. I support getting him, even if at the expense of a less important home grown player.

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08-01-2011, 03:56 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New England Hockey View Post
Every team has overpaid players. Building a contender is about overpaying for the right players.

In the scenario that Parise hits UFA, he is the right player at the right time to put us over the top. I support getting him, even if at the expense of a less important home grown player.
I really don't like the word overpaid. It's the same with trades - trading for x would require "overpayment", but it would "worth it". If the trade is worth it, it's not overpayment. If Parise brings what he's showing now, he'd have to have a cap hit of 8 mil+ to really be overpaid. And in that case, he still would have quite a lot of value in a trade. Eric Staal gets paid more than others who bring similar things to the table, but he still has quite a bit of value in a trade, no?

If a trade or a signing improves your team in the long run, it's not overpayment.

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Old
08-01-2011, 10:52 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubedo View Post
Capgeek says we have $15+ million in space with 14 players for next season...that really is not much to fit ZP in at 7 and have enough to fill it out

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22
Actually, it's plenty - check my post 54 on page 3 of this thread.

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Old
08-01-2011, 11:49 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubedo View Post
Capgeek says we have $15+ million in space with 14 players for next season...that really is not much to fit ZP in at 7 and have enough to fill it out

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22
heres some numbers for ya:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($6.000m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.200m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Christian Thomas ($1.000m)
Brandon Prust ($0.800m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m)
Mike Sauer ($1.250m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($3.716m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $527,000

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,072,834; BONUSES: $1,772,500
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $3,227,166


ok, first and foremost, it says cap space of 3,227,166, but that includes the rollover cash and drurys full buyout, the number should really be 5,805,166

you figure prust will get a raise from his 800k to say 1.5 mil so that brings the number to 5,104,166. Let's say MDZ gets a raise to 1.5 mil bringing us to 4,691,666 and let's say that Parises cap hit becomes 7.5 mil. leaving us with 3,191,666.....I would have Kreider there as well, im not sure what his cap hit will be, but ill just put 1750000 like Erixon for simplicity... That leaves us with 1,441,666 to fill out 1 backup forward, and 1 backup defenseman. And this is without any increase to the salary cap whatsoever.

Can EASILY be done.


And a lineup of..

Parise - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - Thomas
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Staal - Girardi
Sauer - McD
MDZ - Erixon


looks pretty effing awesome on paper.

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Old
08-02-2011, 12:17 AM
  #112
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Chalfdiggitty,

Parise will not get $6.5. He will get $90 over 12 years, taking him to 40 years of age, woth the last three years being $1 each.

That's a cap hit of $7.5.

How did I calculate this? Brad is 3 years younger and Parise is a better player. Brad got $57 over 6 years plus another three years for the cap. That's $9.5 annually plus those 3 years.

You have to figure Parise gets a contract to the age of 40 like all superstar do.

At 9 years times $9.5, we are talking about $85.5. Add another three years at $1, and it's now $88.5.

I added an extra $1.5 over all these years because I expect more teams to bid on Parise than Brad. Star left wings are very rare, more than centers or right wings.

At a minimum, he will get $84, which would be $7 a year, not $6.5. But I fully expect something closer to $90 than $84. Maybe $88-$89.

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08-02-2011, 12:57 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Chalfdiggitty,

Parise will not get $6.5. He will get $90 over 12 years, taking him to 40 years of age, woth the last three years being $1 each.

That's a cap hit of $7.5.

How did I calculate this? Brad is 3 years younger and Parise is a better player. Brad got $57 over 6 years plus another three years for the cap. That's $9.5 annually plus those 3 years.

You have to figure Parise gets a contract to the age of 40 like all superstar do.

At 9 years times $9.5, we are talking about $85.5. Add another three years at $1, and it's now $88.5.

I added an extra $1.5 over all these years because I expect more teams to bid on Parise than Brad. Star left wings are very rare, more than centers or right wings.

At a minimum, he will get $84, which would be $7 a year, not $6.5. But I fully expect something closer to $90 than $84. Maybe $88-$89.
And if he is a 40/40 player this year he'll be worth 7+ per year going forward. A few years late, but Sather could finally make the 2003 draft right. lol

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Old
08-02-2011, 01:37 AM
  #114
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Parise all the way. I had a dream the other night we had traded Wolski + for him the other night but I didn't see what the + was just super excited. If we can get him next summer, dangertown!

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08-02-2011, 06:07 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Chalfdiggitty,

Parise will not get $6.5. He will get $90 over 12 years, taking him to 40 years of age, woth the last three years being $1 each.

That's a cap hit of $7.5.

How did I calculate this? Brad is 3 years younger and Parise is a better player. Brad got $57 over 6 years plus another three years for the cap. That's $9.5 annually plus those 3 years.

You have to figure Parise gets a contract to the age of 40 like all superstar do.

At 9 years times $9.5, we are talking about $85.5. Add another three years at $1, and it's now $88.5.

I added an extra $1.5 over all these years because I expect more teams to bid on Parise than Brad. Star left wings are very rare, more than centers or right wings.

At a minimum, he will get $84, which would be $7 a year, not $6.5. But I fully expect something closer to $90 than $84. Maybe $88-$89.
You are ignoring the fact that the new CBA (after this season) will ban these types of contracts. The length of the deals probably won't be able to eclipse 5-7 years and there will be a system to end lowering of the cap at the end of the deal (with low salary amounts).

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08-02-2011, 07:09 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
You are ignoring the fact that the new CBA (after this season) will ban these types of contracts. The length of the deals probably won't be able to eclipse 5-7 years and there will be a system to end lowering of the cap at the end of the deal (with low salary amounts).
You are ignoring the fact that the current CBA cannot expire until after September 15, 2012. Parise will be a UFA on July 1, 2012, and will be signed to a contract under the current CBA. Then, a few months later, a new CBA may go into effect.

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08-02-2011, 07:43 AM
  #117
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Here's a thought, what about Weber? The team clearly doesn't have the resources to retain him on a multi year deal.

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08-02-2011, 07:46 AM
  #118
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I'm more worried about the following summer when McDonagh, Sauer, Stepan, and AA all need to be re-signed. As of right now, there is no big contract that expires that would allow for raises IF we spend to the cap next offseason.

Replacing the level of production we get from those 4 players on their current deals is impossible.

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08-02-2011, 07:54 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
You are ignoring the fact that the current CBA cannot expire until after September 15, 2012. Parise will be a UFA on July 1, 2012, and will be signed to a contract under the current CBA. Then, a few months later, a new CBA may go into effect.
Thanks for the correction.

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08-02-2011, 08:52 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
Here's a thought, what about Weber? The team clearly doesn't have the resources to retain him on a multi year deal.
Thats a tough choice a 26 year old #1 stud with a cannon of a shot and the physical edge to pair with Staal...

or Parise a 28 year old #1 LW that does all that Cally does plus is a 40/40 player....

Parise - Richards - Gaborik

or

Staal - Weber...

This type of thought almost deserves a poll!!

Parise vs Weber

I honestly think i'd go Weber..a year older than Staal and both are top 10-15 shut down d-men...plus Weber gets you 40-50 points as it is..I'd rather have a top pair of defensemen for 10-12 more years vs a first line that may only be dominant for another 3 - 6 years depending how they play when they get older..

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08-02-2011, 09:02 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Ke11y96 View Post
Thats a tough choice a 26 year old #1 stud with a cannon of a shot and the physical edge to pair with Staal...

or Parise a 28 year old #1 LW that does all that Cally does plus is a 40/40 player....

Parise - Richards - Gaborik

or

Staal - Weber...

This type of thought almost deserves a poll!!

Parise vs Weber

I honestly think i'd go Weber..a year older than Staal and both are top 10-15 shut down d-men...plus Weber gets you 40-50 points as it is..I'd rather have a top pair of defensemen for 10-12 more years vs a first line that may only be dominant for another 3 - 6 years depending how they play when they get older..
I'd also go for Weber. Parise is amazing to say the least, but there are cheaper options out there for first line LW that, while may not be as dynamic as parise, would still be effective. A Nathan Horton type for example. Besides the fact that I don't think Zach would sign here anyway.

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08-02-2011, 09:11 AM
  #122
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Weber is not a UFA until July 2013, after a new CBA will most likely be in place, because he owes Nashville 2 years of RFA service still.

Parise is a UFA in July 2012. The big ticket UFA defenseman at that time is Ryan Suter, not Weber.

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08-02-2011, 09:16 AM
  #123
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We'll definitely be in on the Parise sweepstakes next year.

We're definitely not a shoe in to getting him though, like we were for Richards. That being said, I think we have as good a shot as any other team bidding for him.

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08-02-2011, 09:20 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Weber is not a UFA until July 2013, after a new CBA will most likely be in place, because he owes Nashville 2 years of RFA service still.

Parise is a UFA in July 2012. The big ticket UFA defenseman at that time is Ryan Suter, not Weber.
Obviously it would be a trade. This thread is about trade possibilities too right?

Edit: guess the thread is only for UFA possiblities. Never mind then.

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08-02-2011, 09:23 AM
  #125
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Obviously it would be a trade. This thread is about trade possibilities too right?

Edit: guess the thread is only for UFA possiblities. Never mind then.
The thread is for trade and UFA possibilities, but the discussion seems to be Weber vs. Parise. In reality, due to RFA status, if you're looking at the big UFA and trade targets, the discussion should be:

Parise + assets that would be used to acquire Weber vs. Suter + assets that would be used to acquire Weber vs. Weber

I'd have to believe that the assets to acquire Weber would be very, very high, because there'd be a lot of teams interested.

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