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The "Captain Caveman" Edition: Nashville Predators vs. Shea Weber 8/2/2011

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08-02-2011, 10:18 AM
  #101
glenngineer
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Well, one of the two needs to go then. If Weber has stated all along that he wants to be here, blah blah blah then changed his mind, screw him, trade him and be done with it. If Weber is telling the truth, then fire Poile for not getting this done unless he's being told by the owners what to do and we have no idea about it.

There is something much larger going on here than any of us realize. Has to be. No idea what it is but something is rotten in Denmark.

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08-02-2011, 10:20 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Weber's agent just tweeted that they're on a break (guessing that the first portion is complete.) Also said that this is the first time in NHL history a team-elected arbitration has gone to hearing.
Poiled again!!

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08-02-2011, 10:21 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well, one of the two needs to go then. If Weber has stated all along that he wants to be here, blah blah blah then changed his mind, screw him, trade him and be done with it. If Weber is telling the truth, then fire Poile for not getting this done unless he's being told by the owners what to do and we have no idea about it.

There is something much larger going on here than any of us realize. Has to be. No idea what it is but something is rotten in Denmark.
Granted I have a bitter taste when it comes to owners, but I personally believe that ownership is the biggest issue in this. I think they gave Poile a max and that's all he had to go on.

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08-02-2011, 10:24 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well, one of the two needs to go then. If Weber has stated all along that he wants to be here, blah blah blah then changed his mind, screw him, trade him and be done with it. If Weber is telling the truth, then fire Poile for not getting this done unless he's being told by the owners what to do and we have no idea about it.

There is something much larger going on here than any of us realize. Has to be. No idea what it is but something is rotten in Denmark.
To sign or not to sign? That is the question. Whether tis nobler in arbitration to suffer the check and slapshots of outrageous velocity or to take arms against a sea of salary and by opposing trade it.

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08-02-2011, 10:24 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Granted I have a bitter taste when it comes to owners, but I personally believe that ownership is the biggest issue in this. I think they gave Poile a max and that's all he had to go on.
But what could that max be? 4.5 mil?

For a team that virtually needs to spend 7-10 mil to be compliant with the CBA, and only 1 or 2 roster spots open? From an ownership group that has generally done everything right?

Makes no sense.

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08-02-2011, 10:25 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well, one of the two needs to go then. If Weber has stated all along that he wants to be here, blah blah blah then changed his mind, screw him, trade him and be done with it. If Weber is telling the truth, then fire Poile for not getting this done unless he's being told by the owners what to do and we have no idea about it.

There is something much larger going on here than any of us realize. Has to be. No idea what it is but something is rotten in Denmark.
You mean like problems with the ownership sort of thing? Plausible explanation for Poile's race to the cap sub-basement.

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08-02-2011, 10:25 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Granted I have a bitter taste when it comes to owners, but I personally believe that ownership is the biggest issue in this. I think they gave Poile a max and that's all he had to go on.
We're not even at the cap floor, in fact we're 7m from it...

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08-02-2011, 10:27 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Granted I have a bitter taste when it comes to owners, but I personally believe that ownership is the biggest issue in this. I think they gave Poile a max and that's all he had to go on.
I don't believe they gave Poile an individual max. That'd be too meddlesome and poor judgment because the owners simply don't have the knowledge to understand roster mix. I think they've given Poile a total payroll max or, more specifically, a projection of total salaries expense for the next few years and Poile is trying to balance Shea's desire to be compensated with the need to build out a good roster given those aforementioned limitations.

And reading all these posts, I guess I'm one of the few who isn't bothered by arbitration. Everyone wants to blame Poile but Shea wants to get his money. I don't want a GM bowing to the captain in this instance if a better deal can be had either through arbitration or additional negotiations.

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08-02-2011, 10:29 AM
  #109
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08-02-2011, 10:38 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
We're not even at the cap floor, in fact we're 7m from it...
Maybe the "spend more than last year" quote was a lie and Poile has to the cap floor. Maybe Weber wants more. I don't know.

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08-02-2011, 10:41 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Maybe the "spend more than last year" quote was a lie and Poile has to the cap floor. Maybe Weber wants more. I don't know.
None of us do... It doesn't seem to be what we've been told though.

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08-02-2011, 10:42 AM
  #112
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I'll admit I'm stressing as much as anyone, but to automatically assume this is Poile has no basis.

1.) Maybe this isn't given as much consideration by some because it's just too ugly to think about, but despite what SW has said publicly, what if he doesn't want to be here long-term? Even if he does, what if he's asking for the moon? And even if he isn't, what if he's waiting to see what kind of offense management could build? That would be fair, and it also wouldn't be DP's fault it's gotten this far.

2.) It could be ownership. Like many, I've swooned over the commitment and vision ownership has shown, and I give them the benefit of the doubt. But with all that's happening in the US and world economy, we don't know if their supporting business operations are now on thin ice, and they've needed to put a straight-jacket on DP. It may have pained them to do it, but if they had to...

A lot is made that Poile took this to arbitration. Well let's deal with the facts, and that is simply that DP and SW were not close to a deal as July 1 approached, and SW would have been opened up to competing offers. We don't know what DP knew but if he knew that for whatever reason they'd need more time to come to a deal, then of course he'd have to protect the asset and file for arbirtration. It was a smart move.

Why it hasn't been resolved until today is anyone's guess, but it is a guess, and DP could be one reason, but there are least two others which aren't his fault.

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08-02-2011, 10:48 AM
  #113
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Doesn't have a basis? Serioulsy.

What has more of a basis?

Shea Weber is wants to be the topped paid player in the league and is being greedy!

or

David Poile is being cheap!

Which do you think is the more likely?

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08-02-2011, 10:48 AM
  #114
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btw, when I blame Poile, I blame the ownership too, they're together in my eyes.

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08-02-2011, 10:50 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Doesn't have a basis? Serioulsy.

What has more of a basis?

Shea Weber is wants to be the topped paid player in the league and is being greedy!

or

David Poile is being cheap!

Which do you think is the more likely?
Why does it have to be one or the other? It seems much more likely that Weber wants to be compensated as one of the top players in the league and Poile doesn't feel like he's worth it OR doesn't want to tie up such a large portion of his salary space on just one player. There's a lot more potential for nuance in these negotations than people are giving credit for here.

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08-02-2011, 10:52 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
Why does it have to be one or the other? It seems much more likely that Weber wants to be compensated as one of the top players in the league and Poile doesn't feel like he's worth it OR doesn't want to tie up such a large portion of his salary space on just one player. There's a lot more potential for nuance in these negotations than people are giving credit for here.
If he doesn't want to pay him as a top defenseman, then he should have traded him, taking him to arbitration isn't going to help, Weber was 2nd in Norris voting and first team all-star, he's a top defenseman, Poile can't argue that.

Besides we were told they knew what Weber wanted he was the core of the team and would be paid. Somone is lying...

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08-02-2011, 10:54 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
If he doesn't want to pay him as a top defenseman, then he should have traded him, taking him to arbitration isn't going to help, Weber was 2nd in Norris voting and first team all-star, he's a top defenseman, Poile can't argue that.

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08-02-2011, 11:00 AM
  #118
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Not sure if you guys saw this, but Bruce Dowbiggin (writer from Calgary) reported about 15 minutes ago on Twitter that the Predators and Weber are close to 4 million a year apart. I don't know how reliable that is, but I assume he heard something to report such an unexpected figure.
$6 million from Preds and $10 million from Weber??

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08-02-2011, 11:01 AM
  #119
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this Is So Awesome

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08-02-2011, 11:05 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
If he doesn't want to pay him as a top defenseman, then he should have traded him, taking him to arbitration isn't going to help, Weber was 2nd in Norris voting and first team all-star, he's a top defenseman, Poile can't argue that.

Besides we were told they knew what Weber wanted he was the core of the team and would be paid. Somone is lying...
You keep creating these all or nothing scenarios that seem so illogical. You and many on here are giving these complex negotiations involving complex human beings all the nuance of a light switch.

Maybe he wants to pay him as a top defenseman ($7M) but Weber wants more ($9+)? Maybe Poile believes that an arbitration result of something like $7.5M over 1 year would be better than a panicked signing of Weber for $8M+/yr for 2 years? And maybe Poile believes that he wants Weber on the team into his UFA years and that the added time to negotiate resulting 1 year deal is just what is needed?

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08-02-2011, 11:06 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
$6 million from Preds and $10 million from Weber??
Apparently, the rumor is $4.5 from Poile and $8.5 from Weber. Can't see that being true.

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08-02-2011, 11:06 AM
  #122
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Does anybody else think they (Poile and Weber) did this on purpose? They've had all summer to work this out, and they both said it would get done, maybe they have just been really lax about it because Weber's going to get paid either way.

The offers can't be THAT far off from each other, they've had all summer. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

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08-02-2011, 11:07 AM
  #123
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I checked a bunch of tweets with #weberwatch just to see what's out there and Poile is getting ripped by everyone.


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08-02-2011, 11:10 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Apparently, the rumor is $4.5 from Poile and $8.5 from Weber. Can't see that being true.
That's really hard to believe though. If Poile maxed his offer at $4.5M, then he never had any intention of signing Weber and avoiding arbitration.

And in the world of negotations, low balling is a very dangerous, often ineffective game to play and often results in egotistical fighting that pushes the two sides into irreconcilable positions. It would seem foolish to make an offer that could easily disengage Weber from negotiations and have him looking towards free agency.

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08-02-2011, 11:11 AM
  #125
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This is embarrassing tbh.

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