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Old
07-31-2011, 12:42 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
65 - 90 Points!

They're giving him the C?

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07-31-2011, 06:03 AM
  #177
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Lol thats awesome ironman

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07-31-2011, 01:03 PM
  #178
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Nice PS, but no jersey tuck? =X

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07-31-2011, 01:18 PM
  #179
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Given both he and Briere's less than excellent defensive ability, I would hope he gets paired with Giroux off the bat.

Throw the more defensive Voracek with Briere, keep Hartnell's chemistry with him.

Then I guess you are left with JVR to fill the LW spot with Giroux and Jagr.

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07-31-2011, 09:29 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Given both he and Briere's less than excellent defensive ability, I would hope he gets paired with Giroux off the bat.

Throw the more defensive Voracek with Briere, keep Hartnell's chemistry with him.

Then I guess you are left with JVR to fill the LW spot with Giroux and Jagr.

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08-01-2011, 05:42 PM
  #181
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I expect more of this:


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08-01-2011, 07:53 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I expect more of this:

Lol.

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08-02-2011, 02:14 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
65 - 90 Points!

I like that you put Jagr's laces in the photo

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08-02-2011, 02:53 AM
  #184
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I expect at least ten hat tricks between him and Talbot against the Penguins.

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08-02-2011, 04:08 AM
  #185
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I'm not a Flyers fan, but it is very interesting to see Jagr back in NHL. 30+40 isn't far fetched as he gets to play in PP; Jagr is a beast in powerplay.



Last edited by Opus: 08-02-2011 at 12:01 PM. Reason: fix y/t
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08-02-2011, 11:16 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Ralle Harjaspaa View Post
I'm not a Flyers fan, but it is very interesting to see Jagr back in NHL. 30+40 isn't far fetched as he gets to play in PP; Jagr is a beast in powerplay.
You mean 30-40 goals right? Not points?


Last edited by Opus: 08-02-2011 at 12:01 PM.
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08-02-2011, 11:22 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
You mean 30-40 goals right? Not points?
Nope, he means 30 PLUS 40 goals, an astounding 70 goals!!!! That's how good Jagr is.

But he means 30 goals and 40 assists.

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08-02-2011, 11:32 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Nope, he means 30 PLUS 40 goals, an astounding 70 goals!!!! That's how good Jagr is.

But he means 30 goals and 40 assists.
So, good for about 100 points, then.

Well, as long as Jagr contributes as much comedy as Belak did during his prime years I'm satisfied.

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08-02-2011, 11:58 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Given both he and Briere's less than excellent defensive ability, I would hope he gets paired with Giroux off the bat.

Throw the more defensive Voracek with Briere, keep Hartnell's chemistry with him.

Then I guess you are left with JVR to fill the LW spot with Giroux and Jagr.
You understand that one of the knocks on Voracek is that he sucks defensively, right?

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08-02-2011, 12:04 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Nope, he means 30 PLUS 40 goals, an astounding 70 goals!!!! That's how good Jagr is.

But he means 30 goals and 40 assists.
Jagr had 46 assists in his last season in New York playing with players that couldn't score any goals. That team had no 30 goal scorers and Jagr was being moved around with different centermen because Gomez and Drury who were supposed to center him couldn't bury the goals.

Although Jagr is a great goal scorer; everyone seems to be underrating his playmaking abilities.

Not counting Jagr, the Flyers have potentially 3 30 goal scorers on the team in Briere, Giroux and JVR. Everyone seems to agree that Jagr will help boost the Flyers powerplay. This means Jagr could possibly be good for 10-15 powerplay goals and about 25-40 powerplay assists. People don't realize that Jagr is a playmaker first. Even in his last 3 seasons with the Rangers ( a team that didn't have many goalscorers other than him) he had 69, 66 and 46 assists. He averaged 60 assists in those 3 seasons. With the Flyers I don't see Jagr getting less than 50 assists.

Fans will see Jagr focus more on playmaking as that is what he has been doing at the World Tournaments and the KHL in the last 3 years. BTW the KHL is very, very stingy on secondary assists and they don't count rebounds as assists. Jagr was still racking up the assists there. It has already been discussed how the NHL better suits Jagr's game than the KHL does so I don't buy that "Radulov blew him away in points" crap. Radulov was nowhere to be seen at the Worlds while we all know what Jagr did.

That said, Jagr will get about 30-35 goals and 50-60 assists total with a much better performance 5-on-5 than most people seem to think.


Last edited by livewell68: 08-02-2011 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
08-02-2011, 12:52 PM
  #191
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Extremely stingy on secondary assists. As in they don't count it unless it directly affects the goal.

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08-02-2011, 12:54 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Flyers View Post
They're giving him the C?
Apparently he was on the Flyers for the Winter Classic at Fenway. That sneaky ****.

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08-02-2011, 01:14 PM
  #193
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two things:

1. can we all please whistle when he scores?

2. they need to serve jagr-bombs at the W-F center (also for when he scores)

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Old
08-02-2011, 02:06 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Extremely stingy on secondary assists. As in they don't count it unless it directly affects the goal.
Not necessarily. In the NHL if a player cycles the puck and it ends up on a player's stick who then passes it to the open player and then the open player scores, the player that cycled the puck will get credited with a secondary assist.

In the KHL sometimes that player who cycled the puck won't get a secondary assist. That aspect of the game made it hard for players like Jagr to play a cycle game. The KHL has tried very hard to display a different brand of hockey, less cycling and much more linear type game.

The NHL would allow Jagr to play to his strengths much more, the cycling around the boards, something he barely used in the KHL. Most fans haven't seen Jagr play for 3 years now and usually logic would have that as a player ages, he loses speed. Jagr was rather slow in 2007-08 and looked gassed out until the playoffs.

Since then Jagr has gone on record many times and has said his fitness level is far superior to what it was in 2007-08. He has lost about 15-20 lbs since then when he was 242 lbs. In the KHL he had to learn to play the game differently, go back to a game he played when he first joined the NHL in the early 90's. He relied on his stickhandling and speed much more in the last 3 years in the KHL than he did in the NHL for the last 5 years of his NHL career.

In the NHL he could use his size and puck control where in the KHL he couldn't as much.

What is the result of this: he can still control the puck better than 90% of the league, he's still big and strong at 6'3 and 225 lbs but now he's got an element to his game he's lacked for the last few years and that's the speed and pure dangling skills.

The KHL suits players who are pure finesse only like Radulov, Morozov, Therosen and the NHL suits players who are skilled but strong as well like Malkin, Ovechkin and Crosby.

Jagr is more in the Malkin, Ovechkin and Crosby mold than he is in the Radulov mold.

Anyone remember the 2003-04 season? That season Kovalchuk finished 2nd in points and won the Rocket. He looked poised to break out completely and become an Art Ross favorite. What happened? The NHL was locked out and guys like Kovalchuk had to go play in the European elite leagues to stay in shape and continue playing hockey and making money. To say Kovalchuk struggled that year is an understatement. He was far below a PPG in the KHL/ RSL and guys like Morozov and Sushinsky outscored him mightily. Heck Jagr himself who only played 32 games (played the first half in Kladno in the Czech Elite league) scored 39 Pts, just 2 less than Kovalchuk in 21 less games.

What I'm trying to say is that Jagr seems to use the KHL/ RSL as a tune up for the NHL. Yes he's 39 now but he's also in probably the best shape of his career and he's working his butt off in Kladno right now trying to prepare for the NHL season and mark my words, Jagr is hungry, motivated, in great shape and he's ready to come back with a vengeance.


Last edited by livewell68: 08-02-2011 at 04:17 PM.
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Old
08-02-2011, 03:24 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Jagr had 46 assists in his last season in New York playing with players that couldn't score any goals. That team had no 30 goal scorers and Jagr was being moved around with different centermen because Gomez and Drury who were supposed to center him couldn't bury the goals.

Although Jagr is a great goal scorer; everyone seems to be underrating his playmaking abilities.

Not counting Jagr, the Flyers have potentially 3 30 goal scorers on the team in Briere, Giroux and JVR. Everyone seems to agree that Jagr will help boost the Flyers powerplay. This means Jagr could possibly be good for 10-15 powerplay goals and about 25-40 powerplay assists. People don't realize that Jagr is a playmaker first. Even in his last 3 seasons with the Rangers ( a team that didn't have many goalscorers other than him) he had 69, 66 and 46 assists. He averaged 60 assists in those 3 seasons. With the Flyers I don't see Jagr getting less than 50 assists.

Fans will see Jagr focus more on playmaking as that is what he has been doing at the World Tournaments and the KHL in the last 3 years. BTW the KHL is very, very stingy on secondary assists and they don't count rebounds as assists. Jagr was still racking up the assists there. It has already been discussed how the NHL better suits Jagr's game than the KHL does so I don't buy that "Radulov blew him away in points" crap. Radulov was nowhere to be seen at the Worlds while we all know what Jagr did.

That said, Jagr will get about 30-35 goals and 50-60 assists total with a much better performance 5-on-5 than most people seem to think.
1) I don't really care what Jagr did 3 years ago, and neither should you. For starters, the NHL has increasingly become more defensive since them. Then we have the whole aging thing (it matters).

2) your baseline is an 80-95 point season? That's some good crack you got. A younger Jagr put up big numbers out of the lockout and then his numbers regressed (along with everyone else's) as the league adjusted post lockout. The expectation for Jagr should be in the 60-75 range, and thats before dealing with the hope that he can readjust to the physicality of the NHL.

Be careful lest you become Wolfy.

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:53 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) I don't really care what Jagr did 3 years ago, and neither should you. For starters, the NHL has increasingly become more defensive since them. Then we have the whole aging thing (it matters).

2) your baseline is an 80-95 point season? That's some good crack you got. A younger Jagr put up big numbers out of the lockout and then his numbers regressed (along with everyone else's) as the league adjusted post lockout. The expectation for Jagr should be in the 60-75 range, and thats before dealing with the hope that he can readjust to the physicality of the NHL.

Be careful lest you become Wolfy.
I think Wolfy is a bit extreme. Wolfy's favourite player, IIRC, was Tollefson. At least Jags6868 is a fan of one of the greatest players of the modern era and has some evidence behind his argument that Jagr should still be able to play.

His age is a concern, but given the weight loss and improved emphasis on conditioning and speed, he could be OK. And he doesn't have an 'old' 39 yr old body, coming off 3 years in the KHL. An older, fellow elite player like Selanne can still light it up at 40+, so I don't think it's out of the question Jagr can have an impact this year, and really help the team.

I don't think he'll get to a PPG output, but if he can score 65 points, he'll be in the top 3 or 4 on the team, and I'd be very happy with that.

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08-02-2011, 04:18 PM
  #197
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2. they need to serve jagr-bombs at the W-F center (also for when he scores)
They do, and they're about 13 dollars.

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08-02-2011, 04:26 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) I don't really care what Jagr did 3 years ago, and neither should you. For starters, the NHL has increasingly become more defensive since them. Then we have the whole aging thing (it matters).

2) your baseline is an 80-95 point season? That's some good crack you got. A younger Jagr put up big numbers out of the lockout and then his numbers regressed (along with everyone else's) as the league adjusted post lockout. The expectation for Jagr should be in the 60-75 range, and thats before dealing with the hope that he can readjust to the physicality of the NHL.

Be careful lest you become Wolfy.
Players like Jagr are not the norm. When scoring was low, Jagr was flat out dominant.

BTW in 2005-06 he scored 123 Pts yes but the next season he scored 96 Pts with a reconstructed shoulder. I can bet my life that had Jagr not dislocated his shoulder in the 2006 playoffs that he would have most likely scored over 100 Pts again in 2006-07.

You say Jagr's numbers regressed, well I bring up Selanne. Selanne's numbers regressed after 2006-07 (yes partly due to injury), how come he bounced back with 80 Pts in 73 games (90 Pts pace in 82 games) in 2010-11 at age 40?

Jagr is a year younger, he's much more healthy (Selanne has had many injuries including knee injuries), he has far less wear and tear since the KHL isn't as grinding and he's refocused himself in terms of fitness and speed.

I will be completely shocked if Jagr scored less than PPG in 2011-12. The Czech newspaper is stating that Jagr is training twice a day right now in Kladno. He lifts weights and then he skates everyday.

What is the motivation of a player of Jagr's caliber to train as hard as this before the season starts unless it was to be dominant?

Jagr will lead the Flyers in scoring and he will get 30-35 goals, 50-65 assists.

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08-02-2011, 05:04 PM
  #199
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I think the bottom line is this:

Letting Leino walk and signing Jagr was a BRILLIANT move by Homer. Something many on this board will hate to admit (or simply dispute it b/c they are stubborn)

low risk, high reward, and short term.

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08-02-2011, 05:05 PM
  #200
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I don't really see anybody disputing it. I'd take Jagr over Ville "The Hip" Leino. I'm willing to bet his production drops now that he isn't on the HBL line.

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