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[NJD] Trent Hunter and Colin White(Update: White signs with Sharks)

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08-02-2011, 01:07 PM
  #76
Coldplay
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It would be more foolish to trade Spacek just to get cap space that we won't used. I think Spacek is more valuable to us than a 6th round pick (assuming that's the low return we'd get for him via trade)
This is exactly why I hate it when people say we should dump Gomez to save cap space.

Cap space doesn't win you games. Spacek may not be great, but I'd rather keep him if it meant we weren't going to do anything the added space. Same for Gomez.

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08-02-2011, 01:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Based on what's written on the Devils board it seems that many people are miffed at what's happening to White. And just to bring myself up to date on him I looked at last year's stats. In a weak year for the team White had the best plus/minus for any player playing more than 60 games (-2) . If there are no new undisclosed injuries and his eye is healthy I can't imagine there being too much risk. The team can absorb him and jettison Spacek making it a good swap in my opinion.
I don't see why we'd jettison Spacek. (Or really how we could). I'd like to enter the season with 8 guys, so White would be a good pure addition. Keep Spacek too. He's got a good mix of attributes. And there's nothing much else to spend Molson's money on. Assuming there's no hidden tale of woe surrounding White and he's just the solid guy he always was, I'd offer him $2M/1yr of Molson's $$$. Keep Spacek, sign another forward, go to Tahiti.

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08-02-2011, 02:21 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I don't see why we'd jettison Spacek. (Or really how we could). I'd like to enter the season with 8 guys, so White would be a good pure addition. Keep Spacek too. He's got a good mix of attributes. And there's nothing much else to spend Molson's money on. Assuming there's no hidden tale of woe surrounding White and he's just the solid guy he always was, I'd offer him $2M/1yr of Molson's $$$. Keep Spacek, sign another forward, go to Tahiti.
I agree it would be good to have 8 guys on the backend. White has been a guy I wanted the Habs to persue for awhile now.

The thing is that Weber will likely be the 8th dman if we bring in a White. I think at this point White would offer a more shutdown role and come cheaper than Hannan for some reason. I don't know why but I think he will come cheaper.

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08-02-2011, 05:58 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
This is exactly why I hate it when people say we should dump Gomez to save cap space.

Cap space doesn't win you games. Spacek may not be great, but I'd rather keep him if it meant we weren't going to do anything the added space. Same for Gomez.
i think it's this kind of approach that ultimately has hurt us in terms of regular season/deadline roster moves.

by spending right up to the cap, the flexibility the team has to be a "player" on the trade market is greatly diminished.

Spacek is an incredibly expensive commodity given what he brings to the table at this point. Yes, he's better than relying on Diaz or anyone else from Hamilton if/when injuries hit, but I disagree that we should be keeping him on those grounds.

Having depth is important, no doubt, but if we could jettison Spacek (which in itself is highly unlikely seeing that White just cleared waivers... i realize they have different qualitites, but White slipping through @3M$ tells me that the "teams needing to get to the cap floor" market is pretty much exhausted), I don't doubt that he'd be easily replaceable prior to Oct 1st with a player that would cost <2M$ if not <1M$ (Mccabe, Campoli, Stralman all come to mind).

long-term planning should underlie all roster decisions, and cap space usage is a part of that.

there are a lot of quality "borderline elite" impending UFA's coming up in 2012, the kinds of players you'd expect to be re-signed, but every year you see a few players of that nature get moved in-season, wether b/c the team is falling out of the playoff race and ownership wants to save money, or the team realizes they won't be able to re-sign the player and would prefer getting assets for them...

when is the last time we saw the habs aggressively go after a player like that? It's incredibly hard to do when you are tight against the cap and HAVE to move salary the other way/at the same time.

keeping a cushion, one not dependant on key injuries/ltir, is a good approach imo, and while the habs currently have that, we lose that if we sign 1-2 decent players without moving some salary...

imo, with our roster as it is, White would do more to improve our team than Spacek will, hence why I'd be in favor of "swapping" them.

Markov
Subban
Gorges
Gill
White
Weber
Emelin

3 solid puck movers/pp skilled dmen, 3 solid defensive dmen with some grit, 1 wild card

add a guy like Campoli for depth and I'd say it's a pretty balanced, deep and reasonably priced, defensive unit.

Spacek @ 3.8M instead of White @ 2-2.5? isn't a huge deal, but if I had a choice, I'd prefer White + cap space, or for that matter, Spacek + Cap space (over Spacek + White @ 6-7M)

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Old
08-02-2011, 06:41 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
This is exactly why I hate it when people say we should dump Gomez to save cap space.

Cap space doesn't win you games. Spacek may not be great, but I'd rather keep him if it meant we weren't going to do anything the added space. Same for Gomez.
Hey, don't diss the kid, although he's useless on the ice, he's a good chap

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Old
08-02-2011, 10:13 PM
  #81
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Both cleared.
Both suck.

One because of his knees
One because he was blessed with enough skill to make it to the NHL, but not enough to be effective.

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08-02-2011, 10:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
i think it's this kind of approach that ultimately has hurt us in terms of regular season/deadline roster moves.

by spending right up to the cap, the flexibility the team has to be a "player" on the trade market is greatly diminished.

Spacek is an incredibly expensive commodity given what he brings to the table at this point. Yes, he's better than relying on Diaz or anyone else from Hamilton if/when injuries hit, but I disagree that we should be keeping him on those grounds.

Having depth is important, no doubt, but if we could jettison Spacek (which in itself is highly unlikely seeing that White just cleared waivers... i realize they have different qualitites, but White slipping through @3M$ tells me that the "teams needing to get to the cap floor" market is pretty much exhausted), I don't doubt that he'd be easily replaceable prior to Oct 1st with a player that would cost <2M$ if not <1M$ (Mccabe, Campoli, Stralman all come to mind).

long-term planning should underlie all roster decisions, and cap space usage is a part of that.

there are a lot of quality "borderline elite" impending UFA's coming up in 2012, the kinds of players you'd expect to be re-signed, but every year you see a few players of that nature get moved in-season, wether b/c the team is falling out of the playoff race and ownership wants to save money, or the team realizes they won't be able to re-sign the player and would prefer getting assets for them...

when is the last time we saw the habs aggressively go after a player like that? It's incredibly hard to do when you are tight against the cap and HAVE to move salary the other way/at the same time.

keeping a cushion, one not dependant on key injuries/ltir, is a good approach imo, and while the habs currently have that, we lose that if we sign 1-2 decent players without moving some salary...

imo, with our roster as it is, White would do more to improve our team than Spacek will, hence why I'd be in favor of "swapping" them.

Markov
Subban
Gorges
Gill
White
Weber
Emelin

3 solid puck movers/pp skilled dmen, 3 solid defensive dmen with some grit, 1 wild card

add a guy like Campoli for depth and I'd say it's a pretty balanced, deep and reasonably priced, defensive unit.

Spacek @ 3.8M instead of White @ 2-2.5? isn't a huge deal, but if I had a choice, I'd prefer White + cap space, or for that matter, Spacek + Cap space (over Spacek + White @ 6-7M)
Well, I wouldn't prefer White + cap space or Spacek + cap space over White + Spacek.
Cap space is useless if you don't use it. So, if we do move Spacek and sign White at 2.5M, we actually increase our cap. We would end up with 6.5M free.

I don't think cap tightness has prevented us from doing any type of wanted movement before. We always were right at the ceiling, yet tried to go after guys like Vinny and Hossa, we got players like Schneider and Wiz. I mean, we can manage just fine even if we're close to the ceiling.
Also, a guy like Spacek is likely more movable around the deadline. A decent solid addition that will come at a low price tag for a PO team wanting some defensive depth. I think we have more chances of trading him then rather than now.

What happens is we do get rid of him now, save space and then fail to use it by the deadline? Then we can count our pennies and be happy about it?..

I always strongly believed there was no point in making a trade that will actually hurt your team more than help it.
Saving 3.8M doesn't help the team on the ice. Maybe it eventually will a few months later if we do bring in someone else, but there's always a chance that we bring in no one and just end up having unused cap space, which wouldn't help us at all.

Spacek gets a lot of flak around these boards. I disagree with many people's opinion regarding him. I think Spacek, on his natural wing, will be a great service to us. If he gets paired with Markov on the point for the PP (which is what I think management is currently thinking, as well as Emelin), then I could see him gain his scoring touch back.

In any event, cap space is only useful if you actually use it. You don't need to trade a player in August in order to gain more cap space for March. You can adapt once you actually reached the deadline. No need to plan it that far ahead, and especially not when you already have 5M free. If we bring in White, then we improve our defensive depth. Follow this up by moving Spacek and we worsen our depth. Maybe our group improved a bit seeing how White might be a better addition than Spacek, but it's a small improvement as opposed to having both White and Spacek.

People over-cherish cap space here. You don't move guys like Spacek in the summer so you can have a few extra millions in March. Maybe you'll need that depth, like last year.

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Old
08-03-2011, 12:02 AM
  #83
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Both suck.

One because of his knees
One because he was blessed with enough skill to make it to the NHL, but not enough to be effective.
uhhh wtf? Both were very usefull NHLers and White was a top defensive D until his Eye injury where afterwards he still lead his team in SH minutes/game and played 19 minutes a game.

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Old
08-03-2011, 08:30 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Gommallionta View Post
Wasn't Hunter a Calder finalist alongside Ryder?
Yes, and both lost to... Andrew Raycroft.

Since both White and Hunter are now UFA, I'd definitely give their agent a call to see what they're looking for. At the right price, on the right terms, both would be great additions to the Habs in my opinion. People think that when a player is let go, it's because they're finished. In today's NHL where the cap counts for a lot, it can't be further from the truth.

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Old
08-03-2011, 08:47 AM
  #85
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Hunter is riskier than White, but still, presumably he couldn't be bought out without passing his physical, so that means he must be cleared to play, and if he's cleared to play then that reduces *some* of the risk in his case. He seems to have had recurring injury troubles and hasn't been especially effective when he has played in the last few seasons, but "at the right price", he's still worth a try. Halpern-esque deal, see if he has anything left, again, it'd be no real risk to us. No cap issues, not even really much real $$$ lost if he ends up being unable to make the team or back on LTIR.

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Old
08-03-2011, 09:14 AM
  #86
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Yes, and both lost to... Andrew Raycroft.

Since both White and Hunter are now UFA, I'd definitely give their agent a call to see what they're looking for. At the right price, on the right terms, both would be great additions to the Habs in my opinion. People think that when a player is let go, it's because they're finished. In today's NHL where the cap counts for a lot, it can't be further from the truth.
I'm with you on this one...both could be of potential value to the Habs.

I'd be prepared to give them each 1 year/1 million. I'd be willing to go slightly higher for White.

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08-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #87
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http://twitter.com/#!/TGfireandice/s...10336391606274

Colin White agreed to terms with a new team. Will be announced today or tomorrow.

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #88
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Ex-Dev Colin White's agent, Ben Hankinson, said White has agreed to terms with new team. Signing and announcement coming today or tomorrow.
http://twitter.com/#!/TGfireandice/s...10336391606274

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:18 PM
  #89
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You dont think it's with us, do you?

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08-03-2011, 01:20 PM
  #90
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I doubt he signs with the habs.

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:21 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by eddy View Post
http://twitter.com/#!/TGfireandice/s...10336391606274

Colin White agreed to terms with a new team. Will be announced today or tomorrow.
I guess I missed the step where White was bought out and became a free agent.

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:24 PM
  #92
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RattoCSN Ray Ratto
Colin White to Sharks. One year, $1M. Beat Pittsburgh to the draw. More at @CSNBayArea.com within minutes
Damn. Would have been a good option. Rumor has it that he only wanted to go out west when was asked to move his NMC

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:31 PM
  #93
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It's ok. Habs brass want to see what the new arrivees and younger players can show on D. We can always shore up during the season via trade (like we did with Wiz and Sopel).

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:35 PM
  #94
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It's ok. Habs brass want to see what the new arrivees and younger players can show on D. We can always shore up during the season via trade (like we did with Wiz and Sopel).
To be honest I'd rather we didn't have to trade assets later on to acquire anything we could get for free.

Not saying he'd even consider signing here, but I definitely would've taken him at $1m, as much as I want to see how the new guys play, it's always nice to have some insurance.

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08-03-2011, 01:37 PM
  #95
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It's ok. Habs brass want to see what the new arrivees and younger players can show on D. We can always shore up during the season via trade (like we did with Wiz and Sopel).
Yes why grab a useful SC winning hockey player when draft picks can easily be exchanged for 3 month rental players.

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:37 PM
  #96
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Knew it would be with the Sharks.

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Old
08-03-2011, 01:40 PM
  #97
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Knew it would be with the Sharks.
Murmurs from Sharks fans that Vlasic may be moved. I'd get on that, but I really doubt he does get moved. I really don't see him being moved at all, he's still very young and his contract is not the greatest but it is workable, don't see what the problem is.

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08-03-2011, 01:59 PM
  #98
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Now that White has signed in San Jose, please take the discussion (along with Hunter talk) to the out of town thread.

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