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Comparing Messier/Richards Acquisitions (and state of franchises), 20 years later.

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08-02-2011, 01:30 PM
  #1
KreiMeARiver*
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Comparing Messier/Richards Acquisitions (and state of franchises), 20 years later.

Well, we are approaching the 20th anniversary of our acquisition of "The Captain", and I believe their are some similarities of the aforementioned deal, and our signing of a one Mr. Brad Richards.

Richards, like Messier, brings a strong veteran presence to the locker room. Both are play-making centers, however Messier had a stronger nose for the net. Both are proven winners, having won Stanley Cups in the past.

Both were acquired as the team was on the way up, having strong core players already in place.

So, will the result be the same? Will Richards bring us a Stanley Cup?

Only time will tell, but I have to say, I like our chances!

**Also in this thread: Comparisons of the two franchises, both now, and in 1991. Any discussion of players would be based on 1991 opinions of that player, NOT 1994**


Last edited by KreiMeARiver*: 08-02-2011 at 04:42 PM.
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08-02-2011, 01:36 PM
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Let's see 19 on the ice before we compare him to 11.

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08-02-2011, 01:38 PM
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Messier was a far superior player. He could have been a middle weight goon if he had no skills. He could have been a playmaker or a goal scorer even if that was his only skill. He was instead an all around power forward who was above average at every aspect of the game.

He was also surrounded by better players.

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08-02-2011, 01:43 PM
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08-02-2011, 01:43 PM
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We can't compare Richards to Messier. Its nonsensical to compare him to one of the greatest players of all time when he has yet to even play a single pre-season game as a Ranger. I'll make that comparison when Richards has delivered us a cup, has his plaque in the hall of fame, and has his number raised to the rafters.

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08-02-2011, 01:44 PM
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This team's depth is going to be ridiculous once Kreider and Thomas get to town. Our defense is already deep, although young. Henrik is Henrik. Our window to contend opened the day we signed Brad Richards. Only time will tell how long it stays open.

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08-02-2011, 01:49 PM
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I would have to Say Messier without watching Brad play with the Rangers. He might not have ANY chemisty with Gabby or Dubi or Wolski.

Maybe he gives us a season like Gabby gave to us last year.

We wont know.

If you asked me before last year if Gabby was going to pinch a loaf and play like he did? I would tell you you were either a biased fan of another team or a dumb-@ss. Guess I would have been wrong, eh?

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08-02-2011, 01:59 PM
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Wouldn't put the two in the same sentence. Messier was all heart and was one of the few elite players who would actually fight back and hurt the opposing players if he got pissed off. There was a funny rumor that Messier won't be as good without Gretzky, but two years after Gretzky was moved, Messier had a career season, won the Hart Trophy and led the 6th seeded Oilers to their 5th cup win and first without The Great One. Messier had to be moved for financial reasons and the Rangers swooped in and grabbed him, knowing they acquired a true leader.

This video at the :14 mark defies Messier's career, he played with broken knees that whole playoffs and still lead the team to the WCF



Sure Messier made some poor decisions such as leaving the Rangers for Vancouver, but he will always be remembered for bringing the 94 cup home. I don't think Brad Richards will ever have the impact Messier did with his first stint with the Rangers.

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08-02-2011, 02:02 PM
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Ok, first of all, for those who who need help, I'm NOT comparing Messier with Richards as overall players. I'm not a moron.

I'm comparing the 2 acquisitions in terms of where we are/were as a team.

If Richards gets us a cup, and it's a BIG if, I think there are definite similarities.

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08-02-2011, 02:51 PM
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imho the only similarities between Mess and Richards are the position they play...#1C, and the fact that they are both canadians coming to play for the Rangers later in their careers.

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08-02-2011, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
This team's depth is going to be ridiculous once Kreider and Thomas get to town. Our defense is already deep, although young. Henrik is Henrik. Our window to contend opened the day we signed Brad Richards. Only time will tell how long it stays open.

Either we have to sign Parise or Thomas or Kreider has to become a first liner. Unless we had another player who can consistently score 65-70 points, we won't win the Cup.

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08-02-2011, 03:02 PM
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He's comparing the situation, not the players.

It IS a similar situation.

Young team on the rise adds proven winner to carry the team to the next level.

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08-02-2011, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Either we have to sign Parise or Thomas or Kreider has to become a first liner. Unless we had another player who can consistently score 65-70 points, we won't win the Cup.
Having another player that scores 65-70 points doesn't mean a thing. Look at the Boston Bruins who just won the cup. Their highest scoring player this past season was David Krejci, with 62 points.

They won the Cup because they're a deep team with a great goalie and sound team defense along with a good mix of young players and leadership, similar to what I see the Rangers becoming in the next couple of seasons. Buckle up folks, this is going to be a fun team to watch for the next few years.

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08-02-2011, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He's comparing the situation, not the players.

It IS a similar situation.

Young team on the rise adds proven winner to carry the team to the next level.
It's a similar situation in the most lenient ways.

Those young kids included Brian Leetch and Alex Kovalev, we really don't have anybody who can do what they did.

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08-02-2011, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He's comparing the situation, not the players.

It IS a similar situation.

Young team on the rise adds proven winner to carry the team to the next level.
I guess. But that young team was superior to this one just like Messier is superior to Richards. I find it hard to draw the parallel with that in mind.

Besides, the 94 team traded a lot of young players to get that championship, and Im pretty sure you'd have a coronary if that happened again.

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08-02-2011, 03:42 PM
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Messier besides being a excellent player, maybe top 15 in terms of skill, were a tremendous winner in the sense that he lined up against the best players on the other team and just ate them alive.

Watch him completely manhandle Scott Stevens physically in the first two games in the ECF in 94. Stevens wouldn't go into the corner to fetch pucks.

There isn't anyone like him in the game right now. You see domination like that in the WJCs for example when Can play Russia

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08-02-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
It's a similar situation in the most lenient ways.

Those young kids included Brian Leetch and Alex Kovalev, we really don't have anybody who can do what they did.
Kovalev was just drafted that year. We have Marian Gaborik, who you could compare to Gartner, who was actually on the roster at the time Messier was acquired.

You could compare kids in the system, although Amonte and Weight were both moved before the Cup came.

I was just a kid, so I can't tell you if Weight, and Amonte were as highly regarded as Thomas, Kreider. I know Kovalev sure was.

Kovalev

Amonte
Kreider
Weight

Zubov
Thomas

Erixon

McIlrath

is that about right?


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08-02-2011, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Ok, first of all, for those who who need help, I'm NOT comparing Messier with Richards as overall players. I'm not a moron.

I'm comparing the 2 acquisitions in terms of where we are/were as a team.

If Richards gets us a cup, and it's a BIG if, I think there are definite similarities.
That's how I read it Hightide85. You can't argue there's not similarities between the two situations which is what you were pointing out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
imho the only similarities between Mess and Richards are the position they play...#1C, and the fact that they are both canadians coming to play for the Rangers later in their careers.
And the Rangers team like 94 was looking up for a few years and finally filled it's final need

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08-02-2011, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Kovalev was just drafted that year. We have Marian Gaborik, who you could compare to Gartner, who was actually on the roster at the time Messier was acquired.

You could compare kids in the system, although Amonte and Weight were both moved before the Cup came.

I was just a kid, so I can't tell you if Weight, and Amonte were as highly regarded as Thomas, Kreider. I know Kovalev sure was.

Kovalev

Amonte
Kreider
Weight

Zubov
Thomas

McIlrath

is that about right?
Zubov led that Stanley Cup championship team in points, and hes being compared to Christian Thomas' level?

If Kreider has the career of Amonte or Weight, we should be jumping for joy.

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08-02-2011, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Zubov led that Stanley Cup championship team in points, and hes being compared to Christian Thomas' level?

If Kreider has the career of Amonte or Weight, we should be jumping for joy.
I'm speaking at the time of acquisitions (Messier) and the state of the franchise in 1991

Nobody knew Zubov would be that good when he was drafted. He went 85th overall. He was obviously a monumental steal.


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08-02-2011, 04:15 PM
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I don't know. I agree it's not crazy to draw the most basic of similarities but Messier is one of the greatest players to ever play in the NHL and the team we had then was more talented than the team we had now.

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08-02-2011, 04:18 PM
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When the Rangers drafted Zubov,they didn't know if he was ever going to play in the NHL. 1990. The Soviet Union was not allowing many players to leave especially the young guys. Zubov didn't come on the radar screen until the 1992 Olympics. The Unified Team.

This Ranger team has more pieces than the Ranger team Messier joined. This team doesn't have a player like Brian Leetch who realized his potential when Messier got here.

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08-02-2011, 04:20 PM
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I don't know. I agree it's not crazy to draw the most basic of similarities but Messier is one of the greatest players to ever play in the NHL and the team we had then was more talented than the team we had now.
No offense but were you around in 1991?

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08-02-2011, 04:22 PM
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No offense but were you around in 1991?
No, but anybody with a brain and who has watched the 94 Cup Run knows that Messier and the "supporting cast" were much better than the team we have now.

Maybe we're disagreeing because i'm talking about 94 while it looks like some of us are looking at Messier's first year here.

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08-02-2011, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
No, but anybody with a brain and who has watched the 94 Cup Run knows that Messier and the "supporting cast" were much better than the team we have now.

Maybe we're disagreeing because i'm talking about 94 while it looks like some of us are looking at Messier's first year here.
The whole point of the thread is to compare the franchises: Now, and at the time of Messier acquisition, in 1991. Aka 20 years ago.

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