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Comparing Messier/Richards Acquisitions (and state of franchises), 20 years later.

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Old
08-02-2011, 04:31 PM
  #26
N9Y4R
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Zubov led that Stanley Cup championship team in points, and hes being compared to Christian Thomas' level?

If Kreider has the career of Amonte or Weight, we should be jumping for joy.
Leech led the entire playoffs in points. He played the best hockey of his career that playoff and won the Conn Smythe . Zubov was 4th on the Rangers in Pts that championship run.

Zubov is one of the best offensive Dmen of his generation, tough to put anyone on that level especially a F.

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08-02-2011, 04:31 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
The whole point of the thread is to compare the franchises: Now, and at the time of Messier acquisition, in 1991. Aka 20 years ago.
And that's where the fact that Messier is Messier comes in.

I agree you can draw a basic comparison, but Mark Messier is an NHL legend and Brad Richards, while an elite player, isn't Mark Messier.

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08-02-2011, 04:35 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by N9Y4R View Post
Leech led the entire playoffs in points. He played the best hockey of his career that playoff and won the Conn Smythe . Zubov was 4th on the Rangers in Pts that championship run.

Zubov is one of the best offensive Dmen of his generation, tough to put anyone on that level especially a F.
Again, it is how the prospects were viewed in 1991!!

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08-02-2011, 04:42 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by N9Y4R View Post
Leech led the entire playoffs in points. He played the best hockey of his career that playoff and won the Conn Smythe . Zubov was 4th on the Rangers in Pts that championship run.

Zubov is one of the best offensive Dmen of his generation, tough to put anyone on that level especially a F.
Where did I say anything about the playoffs? Zubov led the team in points that season.

This whole thread is ridiculous. Some people want to think we have the second coming of a championship team forming 20 years later, and want to draw the loosest of parallels.

Not to mention more than half the posters are too young to know what was going on with the Rangers in 1991. The situations are pretty different, and the talent levels are world's apart.

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08-02-2011, 04:44 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Where did I say anything about the playoffs? Zubov led the team in points that season.

This whole thread is ridiculous. Some people want to think we have the second coming of a championship team forming 20 years later, and want to draw the loosest of parallels.

Not to mention more than half the posters are too young to know what was going on with the Rangers in 1991. The situations are pretty different.
This thread is far from ridiculous. The situations are far from different.

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08-02-2011, 05:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
This thread is far from ridiculous. The situations are far from different.
The team won the President's trophy in 91-92. Is that what we should expect from this team, being the situations are so close?

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08-02-2011, 05:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The team won the President's trophy in 91-92. Is that what we should expect from this team, being the situations are so close?
It could happen....

ps nobody cares about the Presidents trophy

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08-02-2011, 05:59 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
When the Rangers drafted Zubov,they didn't know if he was ever going to play in the NHL. 1990. The Soviet Union was not allowing many players to leave especially the young guys. Zubov didn't come on the radar screen until the 1992 Olympics. The Unified Team.

This Ranger team has more pieces than the Ranger team Messier joined. This team doesn't have a player like Brian Leetch who realized his potential when Messier got here.
Break it down for us. Please do. It's mind boggling...

So in essence you expect this team to be #1 in the conference?

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08-02-2011, 06:01 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
It could happen....

ps nobody cares about the Presidents trophy
That's having the best record in the league. It's nothing to shrug off.

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08-02-2011, 06:04 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I guess. But that young team was superior to this one just like Messier is superior to Richards. I find it hard to draw the parallel with that in mind.

Besides, the 94 team traded a lot of young players to get that championship, and Im pretty sure you'd have a coronary if that happened again.
Trading the core of the team would be infinitely stupid. First because there's a salary cap that makes young cheap talent necessary, and second because it helps the team compete for a longer period of time.

Im not convinced the team wouldn't have won the Cup, possibly more then once, if they kept Amonte and Weight. They probably would have had more prolonged success. Especially if they didn't run Zubov out of town.

Can't really compare the players from the two rosters, but the situation is similar.

Richards could put us over that hurdle we couldn't get over, and this team could realistically contend for the foreseeable future. Which was the reason for brining Mess in.

And Lundqvist is arguably already the best goaltender in Rangers history. With him in net and a very good team in front of him, anything is possible.

Its impossible to find a Leetch, arguably the best American born defenseman in NHL history, he's 67th? all time overall in NHL scoring.

And nearly impossible to find a Zubov, although we hope Del Zotto can be similar.

But again, looking at the situation, young team on the rise, needing that guy to push them over the hurdle into the top of the league, and Richards theoretically does that, like Messier did.

Dubinsky could boom into an elite level player like Graves did.

Again, nothing is exact, and we can't really compare most of the players, but its a similar situation. And similar reasoning for brining in Richards. They didn't only bring him in to wake Gaborik up.

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08-02-2011, 06:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The team won the President's trophy in 91-92. Is that what we should expect from this team, being the situations are so close?
If Richards has a season dominating the league the way Messier did in 91-92 I don't see why it's outbid the question.

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08-02-2011, 06:07 PM
  #37
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If Richards has a season dominating the league the way Messier did in 91-92 I don't see why it's outbid the question.
That's 35 goals and 107 points. You tell me.

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08-02-2011, 06:11 PM
  #38
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Mark Messier was a great player but not everyone was happy to see the Rangers acquire him. He was coming off a bad knee injury and was 30 years old. Different eras. Players were not very productive in their later years. They retired at an earlier age. Edmonton couldn't afford to pay Messier and he looked like another failed mercenary coming to NY to get paid. It's easy to look back now and say it was a slam dunk deal. It wasn't.

Messier won the Hart and Leetch won the Norris in 1991-92. Leetch was a big piece that this team doesn't have. In todays game,Leetch could not be Leetch. Different game.

The Rangers haven't had a #1 center since Messier until they signed Richards. The Stars were a top 3 seed in the west last season with Richards at the top of his game until the injuries struck. The lenders had a $46M budget and the team had zero depth.

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Old
08-02-2011, 06:17 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Mark Messier was a great player but not everyone was happy to see the Rangers acquire him. He was coming off a bad knee injury and was 30 years old. Different eras. Players were not very productive in their later years. They retired at an earlier age. Edmonton couldn't afford to pay Messier and he looked like another failed mercenary coming to NY to get paid. It's easy to look back now and say it was a slam dunk deal. It wasn't.

Messier won the Hart and Leetch won the Norris in 1991-92. Leetch was a big piece that this team doesn't have. In todays game,Leetch could not be Leetch. Different game.

The Rangers haven't had a #1 center since Messier until they signed Richards. The Stars were a top 3 seed in the west last season with Richards at the top of his game until the injuries struck. The lenders had a $46M budget and the team had zero depth.
These are great points.

Though, I personally feel the best players from every era could play in any era.

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08-02-2011, 06:22 PM
  #40
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is it just ME or did the video that showed Esa's goal show exactly why players were able to hit 100 points a year all the time?! Goalies that were considered GREAT just su-cked badly!

That goalie didnt even MOVE when esa took the shot.

Every time you see old (I hate to say old cause that makes ME old lol) video's of goals you see the goalie either reacting so late the players are already lined up for the next draw before they even realize the puck was shot, or they play the angles so badly it is retarded?

If goalies today played back then (I understand padding is a lot bigger but our goalies are A LOT more agile and thats being agile WITH bigger pads on which makes it harder to move) forget about it.

Its crazy how the goalie position has become so far advanced. Its the biggest position in advancement ever.

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08-02-2011, 06:28 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And nearly impossible to find a Zubov, although we hope Del Zotto can be similar.
Oh man.. thats a NO-NO. Saying MDZ could be the next ZUBOV or close to?!

Not in a million years.

Either you didnt watch Zubov in his prime or you are SERIOUSLY over reacting to MDZ's talents inwhich he was sent down his second year to learn some more and we dont even know what he will bring in the future.

Just because he is supposed to be a good offensive defenseman does NOT make him similiar to ZUBOV.

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08-02-2011, 06:32 PM
  #42
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Oh man.. thats a NO-NO. Saying MDZ could be the next ZUBOV or close to?!

Not in a million years.

Either you didnt watch Zubov in his prime or you are SERIOUSLY over reacting to MDZ's talents inwhich he was sent down his second year to learn some more and we dont even know what he will bring in the future.

Just because he is supposed to be a good offensive defenseman does NOT make him similiar to ZUBOV.
Reading comprehension isn't your strongest attribute, is it?

Clearly not.

You quoted that specific line and still couldn't read it correctly? Seriously?

"We hope Del Zotto can be similar".

Where did I say he is or was going to be?

"We hope".

Read before you attempt to belittle someone else.

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08-02-2011, 06:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Reading comprehension isn't your strongest attribute, is it?

Clearly not.

You quoted that specific line and still couldn't read it correctly? Seriously?

"We hope Del Zotto can be similar".

Where did I say he is or was going to be?

"We hope".

Read before you attempt to belittle someone else.
YOU CAN NOT HONESTLY HOPE MDZ PLAYERS CLOSE TO ZUBOV'S LEVEL.

He is a prospect that we dont even know can crack the lineup and you hope he becomes a ZUBOV?

Stop being such a homer. Your biased view on the subject is seriously making you think and hope a player can become a generational player like a Zubov.


And that type of thinking puts waaaaay to much pressure on the young kid.

He played one year in the NHL and yet the second year cant even stay with the club. I like MDZ but I have REALISTIC goals for him

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08-02-2011, 08:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Mark Messier was a great player but not everyone was happy to see the Rangers acquire him. He was coming off a bad knee injury and was 30 years old. Different eras. Players were not very productive in their later years. They retired at an earlier age. Edmonton couldn't afford to pay Messier and he looked like another failed mercenary coming to NY to get paid. It's easy to look back now and say it was a slam dunk deal. It wasn't.

Messier won the Hart and Leetch won the Norris in 1991-92. Leetch was a big piece that this team doesn't have. In todays game,Leetch could not be Leetch. Different game.

The Rangers haven't had a #1 center since Messier until they signed Richards. The Stars were a top 3 seed in the west last season with Richards at the top of his game until the injuries struck. The lenders had a $46M budget and the team had zero depth.
1-"Another failed mercenary"? Wow. Maybe coming back here after Vancouver but he was considered anything but "failed" the first time around. And I vividly remember the concensus was indeed "slam dunk". Sure there were health concerns and a few who questioned his coming to NY but not many.
2-I disagree about Leetch and today's game. I think today's game is perfect for Leetch. With clutching, grabbing, and obstruction out of the game, and with his skating ability, he would've owned the Norris.

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08-02-2011, 08:05 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Both are proven winners, having won Stanley Cups in the past.

*

Where did Richards win "Cups"??? Messier won 5 before he came to NYC...


Last edited by darrenturcotte#8: 08-02-2011 at 09:28 PM. Reason: 5, forgot the one after gretz!
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08-02-2011, 08:07 PM
  #46
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Where did Richards win "Cups"??? Messier won 4 before he came to NYC...
5 before NY.

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08-02-2011, 08:46 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
It could happen....

ps nobody cares about the Presidents trophy

Hightide....i definitely see your point. some posters are taking your original post too literal. it seems to me like you are fighting an uphill battle!

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08-02-2011, 08:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
YOU CAN NOT HONESTLY HOPE MDZ PLAYERS CLOSE TO ZUBOV'S LEVEL.

He is a prospect that we dont even know can crack the lineup and you hope he becomes a ZUBOV?
we cant HOPE?

jeez.... tough crowd......

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08-02-2011, 08:57 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
It could happen....

ps nobody cares about the Presidents trophy
Well, some people do. People who want a team that have proven themselves to be the best over a grueling 82 game schedule and a favorite heading into the playoffs.

But you're probably one of those "anything can happen" in the playoffs type of people - look no further than this silly thread you started with an incredibly loose interpretation of the 1991 Rangers vs. the 2011 Rangers.

I can admit that "anything can happen," but I've been around long enough to know that usually it doesnt.

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08-02-2011, 08:58 PM
  #50
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Hightide....i definitely see your point. some posters are taking your original post too literal. it seems to me like you are fighting an uphill battle!
I'm used to it! Most posters on here weren't even alive, so really can't speak about the subject.

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