HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Myth Behind Jack Johnson and his Plus/Minus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2011, 06:02 PM
  #26
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,520
vCash: 500
10/21/10 vs. Phoenix


- At :00, the play starts with Quick making a save on an initial shot, then making a big second save on a rebound that popped to his right. Handzus then gives the puck away to Jovanovski who is wide open at the point who lets a shot loose that gets through Quick as a pile of four players (Scuderi, Johnson, Pyatt, Stempniak) surround Quick.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.

- At :58, the Coyotes are pressuring the Kings as Belanger comes out of the corner with the puck and feeds an open Pyatt in the high slot for a shot. Lee Stempniak picks up the rebound and puts it in the open net. Johnson is in the right position but fails to tie up his man, who was Stempniak. This is a goal that could have been prevented.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did result in this goal.

- At 1:18, the Kings have four forwards on the ice, and it shows as Johnson is the lone player defending a two-on-one. He cuts off the passing lane and leaves the shooter to Quick, who beats Quick cleanly for a shorthanded goal. On a two-on-one, the role of the defenseman is to cut off the passing option and to leave the shooter to the goalie. Quick was just beat by a well placed shot by Fiddler. Nothing that can be faulted on Johnson here.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.

Ziggy Stardust is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 06:02 PM
  #27
no name
Registered User
 
no name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 11,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Sometimes it should be about what you do instead of what you didn't do.

Maybe your right that all of these goals weren't jacks "fault" but maybe a better defensemen would have anticipated the plays more accurately and been better prepared to help with whereever the breakdown occured.

Most good defensemen anticipate breakdowns/mistakes and are thus prepared for them. Jack seems to be just trying to react to them after the fact.
That's the silliest argument that can be made. It's a team sport. If you are anticipating your partner to make an error you can't do your own job to the best of your ability. In sports the concept was to trust the man next to you. In every sport I played they used the same analogy a team is like a hand. I you open your fingers you have a small gap. You make a fist and you have no holes. The concept is to have trust and do your job. If you are floating covering two people there will be a big gap.

no name is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 06:18 PM
  #28
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
That's the silliest argument that can be made. It's a team sport. If you are anticipating your partner to make an error you can't do your own job to the best of your ability. In sports the concept was to trust the man next to you. In every sport I played they used the same analogy a team is like a hand. I you open your fingers you have a small gap. You make a fist and you have no holes. The concept is to have trust and do your job. If you are floating covering two people there will be a big gap.
Couldn't have said it any better. Ultimately it's a team game. Jack's plus/minus stands out as an anomaly on the Kings, and people pick him apart for it. The visual evidence I'm providing is to show if Jack's defensive lapses are directly resulting in goals, and more often than not, he's finding himself on the ice in sticky situations that did not originate from his own mistakes.

I've provided a sampling from four games in which Jack Johnson finished with a -12. Of those, how many can directly be faulted for his play? Maybe one goal? Is Jack's play leading to scrambled play by his teammates? I'm not seeing it that way. I'm not going to blame his teammates, but just look at the videos and see for yourself how a fluke goal gets by a goalie or a broken play from LA's failure to get the puck out of the zone led to a goal.

There is not a single defenseman or player for that matter who plays a mistake free hockey game. All players are prone to them, and yes, of course Jack Johnson has had his fare share of them. It is expected from a young player learning the position on the job. It is also going to be even more magnified when you are one of the team leaders in ice time and were a former third overall pick.

I think maybe some fans had some unrealistic and unreasonable expectations from buying into the silly hype that Jack had coming in from his days at Michigan. Not every defenseman entering the league is going to be like Drew Doughty. Just look at the growing pains of other defensemen such as Dion Phaneuf, Luke Schenn, Jay Bouwmeester, Zach Bogosian, Tyler Myers, Erik Karlsson, Erik Johnson, Brent Burns, etc. Chris Pronger is one of the best examples of this. They all carried the burden of huge expectations coming in to the league, only to find themselves going through some rough patches as they learned on the job as to what it takes to be a top pairing NHL defenseman. Jack Johnson's play is going to go nowhere but up from this point on. Mark my words.

Ziggy Stardust is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 07:19 PM
  #29
Nex06
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
10/21/10 vs. Phoenix

- At :00, the play starts with Quick making a save on an initial shot, then making a big second save on a rebound that popped to his right. Handzus then gives the puck away to Jovanovski who is wide open at the point who lets a shot loose that gets through Quick as a pile of four players (Scuderi, Johnson, Pyatt, Stempniak) surround Quick.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.

- At :58, the Coyotes are pressuring the Kings as Belanger comes out of the corner with the puck and feeds an open Pyatt in the high slot for a shot. Lee Stempniak picks up the rebound and puts it in the open net. Johnson is in the right position but fails to tie up his man, who was Stempniak. This is a goal that could have been prevented.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did result in this goal.

- At 1:18, the Kings have four forwards on the ice, and it shows as Johnson is the lone player defending a two-on-one. He cuts off the passing lane and leaves the shooter to Quick, who beats Quick cleanly for a shorthanded goal. On a two-on-one, the role of the defenseman is to cut off the passing option and to leave the shooter to the goalie. Quick was just beat by a well placed shot by Fiddler. Nothing that can be faulted on Johnson here.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
I see same thing from all 3 goals, all -1's are "valid." He had the chance to save it, he didn't. Blame? Yeah, the second one only.

So far 10 valid -1's and 2 cases where he could not get involved. Small % of real errors on his side, 1 error and one bad defensive play. So far the conclusion is that he is not a liability, but he has a long way to go as a defenseman. I believe in him, he can only get better. However his +/- rating is not a coincidence or bad luck. You don't have to be making blunders to have bad +/-, you can get it by simply not being as good as the best defensemen in the game. Perhaps a Norris candidate would have prevented 2 out of those 10 goals and that would be huge. It's the same thing with goalies: they are not supposed to save everything, but great goalies make that one save that they are NOT supposed to get. A shot where nobody would have blamed them for not making a save.

I believe that +/- comes mostly from invisible things, things like clearing the zone 10 seconds before the goal, stealing the puck in your own offensive zone or making that hit 15 secs before the goal which forces a turnover etc. In other words best defensemen will prevent -1 by something they do 30 seconds before the goal, it's not just about last 5 seconds. All those small things player does will add up to better +/- rating at the end of the season.

Nex06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 07:25 PM
  #30
kingpest19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
How many JJ's points were at even strength? Going off memory alone, it seems like the vast majority of his points come from his PP play. Now, scoring a bunch of the PP is awesome, but improved offense 5 on 5 would go a long way towards balancing his plus/minus. That is of course if his even strength versus PP scoring is as weighted to one side as I remember.
If his ES numbers come up his +/- will go down as a huge majority of his points come on the PP.

kingpest19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 07:26 PM
  #31
triplcrown
Registered User
 
triplcrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Valley, SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Much has been made of Jack Johnson's abysmal plus/minus rating over the years. This season he registered career high's in personal stats with 37 assists and 42 points while averaging over 23 minutes of ice time. It was also his worst season in terms of plus/minus with Johnson finishing the season with a -21 in 82 games.

What I decided to do was to focus in on four games from this past season in which Johnson finished as a -3 and analyze whether or not his defensive play was at fault for any of the goals scored against the Kings. I'll provide the analysis game-by-game in separate posts within this thread. Here is the analysis from the most current game from last season in which Johnson was a -3.

2/28/11 vs. Detroit

- At 0:15, Scudri attempts to get the puck out of the zone, the Kings forward (Simmonds) fails to gain possession of the puck along the boards, and Drew Miller scores from an odd angle.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.

- At 1:15, Williams with a bad pass attempt as Doughty is caught in a vulnerable position, Helm gains possession of the puck on a partial breakaway as Johnson properly cuts off the middle of the ice, but Helm beats Quick cleanly for a shorthanded goal.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.

- At 1:30, the Kings turnover the puck in their own end as Richardson fails to get the puck out of the zone and Kopitar can be seen attempting the leave the zone early when the turnover occurs, Jack Johnson is covering a Wings player in front of the net as Scuderi plays the shooter. The puck takes a crazy hop as Scuderi attempts to whack at it and Johnson still has his man tied up, but a trailing Red Wings forward, Drew Miller, bangs in the loose puck while the Kings forwards look on. The Kings defense is outnumbered 3-2 in front of the net.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
C'mon, don't make Tonga cry.

triplcrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 07:30 PM
  #32
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
If his ES numbers come up his +/- will go down as a huge majority of his points come on the PP.
Johnson finished the season with 28 PP points, which was the 20th most in the NHL and was the team leader in PP points. He finished sixth in the NHL in PP assists with 25. If those PP points transferred over to ES points, he'd be an even player, but alas, that's not how the plus/minus stat works. I think some people are more concerned with that statistic than they should be.

Ziggy Stardust is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 07:38 PM
  #33
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 17,481
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Good timing. I was about to post this blog from today on the subject:

http://www.battleofcali.com/2011/8/2...he-jmfj-effect

"Overall, the Kings were +112 GF and -93 GA without JMFJ (+19, .546), and +55 GF and -72 GA with him (-17, .433).

Jack Johnson is either a victim of the greatest conspiracy in hockey history to make his plus-minus look poor... or he's just a ****ty defenseman."


Both Ziggy's points and Rudy's points are accurate. He IS a victim of circumstance in some cases given Ziggy's analysis, AND he's also got a lot of work to do to shore up his game defensively so he's not such a liability.

Playing at Michigan did NOT help his development - at all. He's been learning on the job. If anyone could have used a couple of seasons in the AHL, it's Jack.

That said, he IS improving.
Beware the wrath of Red's fan club, but I think you are pretty much on the mark.

It would have definitely helped his development if he had been forced to become a dominant defenseman in the AHL before coming to LA.

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 07:40 PM
  #34
kingpest19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Johnson finished the season with 28 PP points, which was the 20th most in the NHL and was the team leader in PP points. He finished sixth in the NHL in PP assists with 25. If those PP points transferred over to ES points, he'd be an even player, but alas, that's not how the plus/minus stat works. I think some people are more concerned with that statistic than they should be.
And I agree. Ive pointed out before that his GA have gone down every year but his +/- doesnt get better. Its all about ES scoring.

kingpest19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 07:45 PM
  #35
triplcrown
Registered User
 
triplcrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Valley, SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 815
vCash: 500
OK, so the +/- thing is somewhat more of a "mixed" situation than many fans realize. I get that.

But there may still be reasons to hate JJ.

Some say, there is reason to believe Jack Johnson did this:



And this:


And this:


And even this:


Being so evil, JJ might make a perfect teammate for
the King Of Evil, Drew Doughty.


Perhaps the JJ hate is justified, eh?
I mean...Bunny rabbits?!

triplcrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 08:59 PM
  #36
CNS
A World Alone
 
CNS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,484
vCash: 500
^^ Da ****???

CNS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 09:07 PM
  #37
MxH0CKEY
Registered User
 
MxH0CKEY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 2,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by triplcrown View Post
OK, so the +/- thing is somewhat more of a "mixed" situation than many fans realize. I get that.

But there may still be reasons to hate JJ.

Some say, there is reason to believe Jack Johnson did this:



And this:


And this:


And even this:


Being so evil, JJ might make a perfect teammate for
the King Of Evil, Drew Doughty.


Perhaps the JJ hate is justified, eh?
I mean...Bunny rabbits?!
You forgot the DUCK!

MxH0CKEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 09:25 PM
  #38
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,289
vCash: 500
Jack Johnson is bad. With that kind of +/- he should be in the AHL, obviously. I mean, stats do not lie. He needs nothing sort of divine intervention to turn into that great d-man we all know he should be. So we can pray, or we can hire Aki Berg.

Under Aki's tutelage, Jack would not only reach his potential, but surpass it. He would teach him bone-crushing hits, help him develop super-human speed, and turn his slap shot into a registered weapon in 24 states and 3 provinces. Just what if... what if Berg's retirement happened just so he could step into this mentoring role? I, for one, salivate at the vision of JJ streaming end to end, blowing through defenders, and performing a perfect Berg-O-Rama© for a goal.

With Berg in his corner, and a little luck, there is even a chance Jack could end a season as a +.

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 09:50 PM
  #39
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
Jack Johnson is bad. With that kind of +/- he should be in the AHL, obviously. I mean, stats do not lie. He needs nothing sort of divine intervention to turn into that great d-man we all know he should be. So we can pray, or we can hire Aki Berg.

Under Aki's tutelage, Jack would not only reach his potential, but surpass it. He would teach him bone-crushing hits, help him develop super-human speed, and turn his slap shot into a registered weapon in 24 states and 3 provinces. Just what if... what if Berg's retirement happened just so he could step into this mentoring role? I, for one, salivate at the vision of JJ streaming end to end, blowing through defenders, and performing a perfect Berg-O-Rama© for a goal.

With Berg in his corner, and a little luck, there is even a chance Jack could end a season as a +.
When Jack Johnson came aboard, Jaroslav Modry took him under his wing and showed him the ropes. That is probably the closest Jack got to being mentored by a defenseman of Aki Berg's caliber.

Ziggy Stardust is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 10:21 PM
  #40
Rusty Batch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
That's the silliest argument that can be made. It's a team sport. If you are anticipating your partner to make an error you can't do your own job to the best of your ability. In sports the concept was to trust the man next to you. In every sport I played they used the same analogy a team is like a hand. I you open your fingers you have a small gap. You make a fist and you have no holes. The concept is to have trust and do your job. If you are floating covering two people there will be a big gap.
I will openly admit that I have never played hockey and thus do not have a deep understanding of the intricacies of the game. However, I was a college basketball player and coach (power forward). I was nothing special but I was a tremendous interior defender. I assume there is a similar approach to playing interior d in bball and being a defensemen in hockey.

With 100 percent certainty I can tell you that the most important part of positional defense in basketball is anticipating when and where breakdowns will occur. So that you are prepared to help accordingly. Furthermore, I would argue that the whole point of playing as a team is helping each other out, it is much easier to help if you are anticipating a breakdown, then just simply reacting to one.

For example take a guy like carlos boozer, he actually does a pretty good job defending his man and an incredible job boxing his man out, however he is so locked into his man that he does nothing so far as team d and therefore is an awful defender, he never leaves his man. Then you take a guy like garnett and he is all over the place helping everyone and also does a great job on his man as well.


Anyways that's jusst bball, maybe hockeys different but I highly doubt it. An above average. Defenderr should be able to defend his man and also be anticipating team defensive breakdowns. The better you can do both is what seperates defensive players.

Also I'm not sure where you got the impression that I said you need to be floating aroun d guarding 2 men... you should be able to guard your own man and be aware of the rest of game as well. It is generally what most athletes have trouble with, though.

Rusty Batch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 11:31 PM
  #41
saintsnsoldiers
The Nolanator
 
saintsnsoldiers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Logan, Utah
Country: United States
Posts: 2,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Conversely, you could analyze plays in which JJ received a +1, and deduce that many of those were not the result of his own play.

Johnson has good all around skills, but his hockey sense and decision making both appear to be mediocre at best. He's not particularly physical or aggressive either. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's consistently a minus player; breaking down individual plays doesn't convince me.
Who knocked the **** out of Smyth, and early in the last season crushed a sharks player. He does not shy away and will drop them when needed. He is better then mediocre and at times alot of the time last year has been our best Dman. I love his attitude. Met him last year in Vegas took alot of time with me and my family for pics and conversation. Was kinda funny because my mom who is 73 was waring her JJ jersey and told him that his mom would be proud of him for the way he took time for our family. He blushed and said thanked us for our time. Killer attitude. I love that we have him for 7 years at his cap hit. He has a LA sticker on his ass not like some other D we have. Sorry got off track. But JJ is way under rated in this league.

saintsnsoldiers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2011, 11:59 PM
  #42
no name
Registered User
 
no name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 11,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
I will openly admit that I have never played hockey and thus do not have a deep understanding of the intricacies of the game. However, I was a college basketball player and coach (power forward). I was nothing special but I was a tremendous interior defender. I assume there is a similar approach to playing interior d in bball and being a defensemen in hockey.

With 100 percent certainty I can tell you that the most important part of positional defense in basketball is anticipating when and where breakdowns will occur. So that you are prepared to help accordingly. Furthermore, I would argue that the whole point of playing as a team is helping each other out, it is much easier to help if you are anticipating a breakdown, then just simply reacting to one.

For example take a guy like carlos boozer, he actually does a pretty good job defending his man and an incredible job boxing his man out, however he is so locked into his man that he does nothing so far as team d and therefore is an awful defender, he never leaves his man. Then you take a guy like garnett and he is all over the place helping everyone and also does a great job on his man as well.


Anyways that's jusst bball, maybe hockeys different but I highly doubt it. An above average. Defenderr should be able to defend his man and also be anticipating team defensive breakdowns. The better you can do both is what seperates defensive players.

Also I'm not sure where you got the impression that I said you need to be floating aroun d guarding 2 men... you should be able to guard your own man and be aware of the rest of game as well. It is generally what most athletes have trouble with, though.
Basketball is not a good comparison. In basketball half of your responsibility is "picking up". Plus half the defenses are funneling or zone.

no name is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 12:06 AM
  #43
Rusty Batch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
Basketball is not a good comparison. In basketball half of your responsibility is "picking up". Plus half the defenses are funneling or zone.
Well I think you missed my point, and we clearly differ in our opinions of team defense, anyways ill leave the hockey discussion to the experts

Rusty Batch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 12:53 AM
  #44
ukyo
Registered User
 
ukyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Silicon Valley
Country: United States
Posts: 1,791
vCash: 500
I tried this already.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...0#post21883310

And you know what? After another season and a half I now attribute his plus/minus to being a poor defender in lots more ways than my rec-league-playing eye can tell.

ukyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 12:57 AM
  #45
ukyo
Registered User
 
ukyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Silicon Valley
Country: United States
Posts: 1,791
vCash: 500
Oh and look at that: someone actually replied back then and set me straight. Can't say I disagree with that assessment at this point.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...5&postcount=65

But honestly, that is stuff that will be learned.

ukyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 01:07 AM
  #46
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukyo View Post
I tried this already.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...0#post21883310

And you know what? After another season and a half I now attribute his plus/minus to being a poor defender in lots more ways than my rec-league-playing eye can tell.
Kind of funny how you created that post in 2009 and we continue having a similar discussion on the merits of Johnson's defensive play to this day. It does prove that he still has lots to learn, he is still the fifth best defensively on the blueline (ranking Mitchell, Scuderi, Doughty and Greene ahead of Johnson).

Looking at the big picture, with the tools he possesses and his age and learning curve, Johnson is a player on the upswing. Now if you want to talk about poor defense, Randy Jones takes the cake. He was a player who stood out as a poor defensive player.

Ziggy Stardust is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 01:53 AM
  #47
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,289
vCash: 500
All I know is I missed 2 home games last year and I can remember only a couple of times where I was irritated with something Johnson did that was a glaring defensive error. I was irritated many more times with Doughty and Greene last year, both of them made huge mistakes on quite a few occasions.

eyeballs > +/- (as long as you aren't blinded by love/hate)

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 03:08 AM
  #48
The VEGASKING
#1 fan
 
The VEGASKING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 1,839
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to The VEGASKING Send a message via Yahoo to The VEGASKING
Says a lot when 5 of your 6 main defenseman are all plus players and the sixth is a -21. That is a huge difference. Basically the same scenario the season before as well.


I need to get Jack in my poker game. I've finally found someone more unlucky than I am.


Last edited by The VEGASKING: 08-03-2011 at 03:18 AM.
The VEGASKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 04:42 AM
  #49
kingsholygrail
Career Worst Year
 
kingsholygrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Derpifornia
Country: United States
Posts: 49,713
vCash: 500
Two signs Johnson is not as bad as people make him out to be...

1) Trade proposals by fans. Why would anyone want him if he's so bad?

2) Given a long-term contract by the Kings. Apparently the organization doesn't think he's all that bad.

kingsholygrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 07:22 AM
  #50
tigermask48
Maniacal Laugh
 
tigermask48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: R'Lyeh, Antarctica
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
Says a lot when 5 of your 6 main defenseman are all plus players and the sixth is a -21. That is a huge difference. Basically the same scenario the season before as well.


I need to get Jack in my poker game. I've finally found someone more unlucky than I am.
This. He is clearly the worst at ES hands down. You have to consider that he should be benefitting from the other 4 and their solid play but he isn't. He should benefit from some of the forwards that have alot of ES points but he isn't. Either he is the most unlucky player ever, or he just isn't that good at ES... As the BoC post shows he pretty much makes anyone he plays with worse, and I'd question how difficult it is to see the whole play develop by watching game highlights, I'll have to watch the highlights Ziggy posted later, but I'd question how much of the ice you can see on a tv replay...

tigermask48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.