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Glen Sather appreciation thread

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Old
08-03-2011, 08:50 AM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
I really have a hard time understanding what some of you want.
Like Tawnos, I am not a Sather fan, but feel the need to defend him.
Are we a dysfunctional team on and off the ice? No
Does the front office seem to have a plan in place to suceed? Yes
Is our scouting staff doing a good job identifying young talent? Yes
When young players come up from the AHL, are they ready to play? Yes
Does our coaching staff have a consistent and coherent strategy that players have bought into? Yes

The GM sets the overall tone and direction for this.

All that is missing is on-ice success. Hopefully we are building towards something special. I expect improvement this year: somewhere between 4 and 6 in the conference. 2012-2013 is where I expect a serious Cup run.

Again, I am not a Sather supporter and would be happy if he were canned. But think of where we were just a few short years ago. Sather deserves credit for realizing that he was in a new NHL and changing the direction of the franchise.
The problem that I along with a host of other posters have is that what he is doing today should have been done when he first got here.

Had that taken place THEN, we would be in the midst of being that legit contender you think we may become in 2012-13. The truth of the matter is that we have not been trending towards contender status.

The fact is, he's wasted more than half his tenure here running the same ole/same ole and now, because he's finally got started in the right direction he should get praised for it?

I'm not one for giving credit to someone for cleaning up their own farging mess.

It shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Finally, no matter what he's done, the only aspect that we are missing (in your own words), happens to be the only aspect that truly matters and that is "On Ice Success"

This franchise has had little to none of it duing Sathers tenure.

A job well done this summer. That's the extent of my praise.

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08-03-2011, 08:56 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
I really have a hard time understanding what some of you want...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
All that is missing is on-ice success.
Not all that hard to understand really.

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08-03-2011, 09:23 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Laces out Dan View Post
Isn't 'most improved' a fairly terrifying thing to label a guy who has been a GM for 30 years?
What 30 years? The game has evolved since 1981, so did the business part of it. So "most improved" is not terrifying. "below average" is, though.

It is funny that people who convinced that Sather is a below average GM (which is true) are passionately arguing here with those who insist that Sather has greatly improved (which is also true).

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08-03-2011, 09:33 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Hmm... Maybe you did? The only times this thread has been started or bumped are during specific situations in which the OP or bumper was happy with a move Sather made. Specifically, the 2009 deadline deals, the Gomez trade and our current positive offseason. The words "job well done" were only used in relation to specific events and later, to refer to the more recent past. No one ever intended for them to mean for his tenure.



Were you unhappy with the way we got there this year? I mean, take out the fact that the reality is that we finished in mediocre position for a moment. Would you rather have limped all the way through the season and made a desperate run at the end or would you rather have overcome adversity from injuries and worked hard all the way through the season? That's all I mean by that. These aren't feelings, theyre the facts of the stories of the last two seasons.



Analogies require analogous situations.
We will have to agree to disagree about what constitutes a valid analogy.

As to how we got to where we got last year: It does not matter, other than so far they have gotten nowhere, something forgotten all too often.

Sather has been a terrible GM for his entire career, minus one great draft year in Edmonton.

Waiting for him is like waiting for Godot.

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08-03-2011, 09:37 AM
  #255
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Give him credit for recognizing the error of his ways and changing. Coming out of the lockout we were a complete and utter disaster. Sure much was of Sather's making. It is not easy to turn a franchise around overnight. Pre-lockout there was a long, long playoff drought. Since the lockout we have a reasonable expectation of making the playoffs each year. Now we have a team that is hopefully poised to be more than a marginal playoff team. Its core is home grown. That also is Sather's doing. He has made mistakes along the way, bad ones, but no GM is perfect. Perhaps it is his much maligned life time contract that has allowed him to step back and reorder his priorities.

Don't get me wrong....if he were to be fired tomorrow, I would be happy.

But the bottom line here is that we may have the makings of a really good team that could be good for a number of years to come. That did not happen by accident. If coaches and GMs get the blame when things go wrong, they need to get similar credit for when things go right. Things seem to be "right" right now.

Its as if some of you are "happier" when things are worse and you can complain endlessly. It often seems as if and you can't stand success. We have broken out of the morass of year-to-year "badness." Some teams never seem to cycle out of being bottom feeders. They are endlessly dysfunctional, jumping from coach to coach, GM to GM, philosophy to philosophy.

We all want to win the Cup and we are light years closer than we were a few years ago. I say again that this situation is not an accident. It didn't just happen for no reason. It didn't happen because of the carping here on the boards. I know being endlessly pessimistic is a defense against failure. I know that always expecting the worse is part of the DNA of being a Ranger fan. But for all the mess he made pre-lockout, for all the signings that didn't work out, he must be doing something right.

I know that when you absolutely detest and abhor a person, it is hard to give him any credit. I have certainly made plenty of jokes about Sather to other fans: his golfing, his cigars, his fishing, his never being around during the seasons, his "old boy, old school" connections, his seeming to be in Banff more than in NYC (hey, I didn't even like him when he played for us in the early 1970s), but grudgingly, grudgingly, I must give him credit or moving us in the right direction.

It is hard to be fan and be objective but this is the best I've felt about being a Ranger fan in a long, long time. It might all fall apart quickly. Only time will tell but right now, Sather is the man in charge and deserves credit for our optimism.

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08-03-2011, 09:46 AM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
But the bottom line here is that we may have the makings of a really good team that could be good for a number of years to come.
Yup, we may. But some of us want to see success on the ice, not in an internet forum. Win first, then we'll appreciate. It's really quite simple.

As I said...win TWO playoff series this year, and I will personally appreciate.

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08-03-2011, 10:14 AM
  #257
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I think that, after the Drury/Gomez signings Sather just fell asleep. He got a middle of the night call from Bob Gainey and dumped Gomez, correcting a terrible mistake successfully. However, when the kid dumps his cereal all over the kitchen floor, I don't congratulate him when he cleans his mess up. All in all, his tenure has been dreadful. How many playoff series' has this GM won as Ranger GM? He benefits from then loyal fan base that continues to fill the Garden, but he should have been canned 6 or 7 years ago.

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08-03-2011, 10:21 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Yup, we may. But some of us want to see success on the ice, not in an internet forum. Win first, then we'll appreciate. It's really quite simple.

As I said...win TWO playoff series this year, and I will personally appreciate.
This is how I feel as well.

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08-03-2011, 10:30 AM
  #259
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sather has faught and clawed his way back up to a C grade overall on his tenure as GM

he's put himself and the team in a good place for the time being... we'll see how the next 3 years shake out

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08-03-2011, 10:33 AM
  #260
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I am in the "you don't get credit for cleaning up your own mess" camp. But I also give Slats credit for seemingly moving us in the right direction.

The Erixon move was great. We landed the #1 FA, who actually fills a team need, and did not overpay---in a year where many overpayments were made. We re-signed our guys to reasonable contracts. And, most importantly, did not do any franchise crippling head shaking move.

Based on all of this, I share the optimism of many here. But as others have said, we need to see some results on the ice.

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08-03-2011, 10:48 AM
  #261
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In the 1991/2001 comparison thread, someone brought up the incident where Messier had Scott Stevens scared to go into corners after pucks. In some ways, this is a good analogy to the way many of you view the job Sather is doing. He's hurt us as a fan base so many times, there is a distrust of anything that he's going to do now and in the future. Whereas it was bad for Stevens' game, I don't view that as a negative viewpoint. I understand it. All the skepticism of the moves and the need for results comes down to the fact that it's Sather who made these moves and not based on anything resembling an objective evaluation of said moves. Not saying that I'm the most objective of all people, given that I'm a Rangers fan. However, I try to take my feelings about Sather out of the equation when thinking about the makeup of the team.

This is the difference between the two points of view. It's not something we will ever get past... and in reality, it doesn't really matter either way. Neither side is right or wrong. Neither viewpoint is good or bad. This is the summer. It's a good time for these kinds of discussions. But damn, the season really needs to start already!

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08-03-2011, 10:59 AM
  #262
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This years team is better, by far, than last years team. That means he had a good off-season. That is good enough for me. As long as he continues to take the team in the right direction I dont care what he did.

Is he my favorite person in the world? No. But lately he has been much better.

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08-03-2011, 02:10 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
How can things be going 'amazingly' if it doesn't show in the results?
Huh? How did you manage to only read/quote the first sentence of my previous post. If you read the full thing I answer your question there.

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08-03-2011, 02:17 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
This years team is better, by far, than last years team. That means he had a good off-season. That is good enough for me. As long as he continues to take the team in the right direction I dont care what he did.

Is he my favorite person in the world? No. But lately he has been much better.
That's something that's been said every year for the last 15 years with this franchise. No one knows if a team that looks good/improved on paper will actually be that way when this group of players hit the ice.

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08-03-2011, 03:18 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
This years team is better, by far, than last years team. That means he had a good off-season. That is good enough for me. As long as he continues to take the team in the right direction I dont care what he did.
Let's not declare the team better in August...again. If this year's team has a far better record than last year's team, then they are better. It's pretty simple, actually.

Let's play the games first before we decide who is better and by how much, OK?

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08-03-2011, 08:49 PM
  #266
Kel Varnsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Let's not declare the team better in August...again. If this year's team has a far better record than last year's team, then they are better. It's pretty simple, actually.

Let's play the games first before we decide who is better and by how much, OK?
So how many games need to be played before anyone can begin to talk about how good the team is or isn't?

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08-04-2011, 06:19 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
So how many games need to be played before anyone can begin to talk about how good the team is or isn't?
How about at least one?

One freaking game before you start anointing. One.

One.

One.

Hope my answer was clear.

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08-04-2011, 07:34 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
How about at least one?

One freaking game before you start anointing. One.

One.

One.

Hope my answer was clear.
Agreed. Can the team get at least one game in before Generic/Kel drops to his knees and starts "servicing Sather's account" again? It's like we're applauding an artist for producing a great painting when all he's actually managed to do was buy the materials. I say we get something on canvas first. He's had a good off-season. Nothing more, nothing less. Now let's see if he can turn this off-season into a Mona Lisa.

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08-04-2011, 07:58 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
So how many games need to be played before anyone can begin to talk about how good the team is or isn't?
Well obviously as the season plays out you can discuss the season, and discuss how well the team is or isn't playing. But just as you can't declare yourself a winner or a loser of a hockey game after one period is complete, the final score on this season will be what they accomplish in the playoffs.

Sather's Rangers have NEVER won two playoff series in one season...actually, they've only won two playoff series in Sather's entire 11 year tenure.

Winning two playoff series this season will warrant appreciation. Games are won and lost on the ice, not in an internet forum.

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08-04-2011, 09:01 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
Give him credit for recognizing the error of his ways and changing.
This is the primary philosophical difference between the two sides. Some believe, as you do, that he has learned and changed his ways for the better.

Others, like me, believe that he hasn't learned a thing and only changed because change was forced upon him by the salary cap. I have no doubt that if there were no lockout and no salary cap, Sather would be operating the same now as he did pre-lockout.

My evidence for this belief? All the horrible UFA signings we've made since the lockout. Yeah, most of us are very happy with what he did this summer, but I still don't trust him.

Gorton and Clarke have shown themselves to be good talent evaluators. I would feel much more comfortable if they took over everything and Sather stepped aside. That seems to be happening anyway, so why not make it official. Just keep Sather out of personnel decisions and I'll be happy.

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08-04-2011, 09:49 AM
  #271
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sather is a rotten ****ing *******. cant wait for him to go. to appreciate sather is to appreciating losing. we should not be praising a guy that all of a sudden started doing his job.

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08-04-2011, 10:13 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
This is the primary philosophical difference between the two sides. Some believe, as you do, that he has learned and changed his ways for the better.

Others, like me, believe that he hasn't learned a thing and only changed because change was forced upon him by the salary cap. I have no doubt that if there were no lockout and no salary cap, Sather would be operating the same now as he did pre-lockout.

My evidence for this belief? All the horrible UFA signings we've made since the lockout. Yeah, most of us are very happy with what he did this summer, but I still don't trust him.

Gorton and Clarke have shown themselves to be good talent evaluators. I would feel much more comfortable if they took over everything and Sather stepped aside. That seems to be happening anyway, so why not make it official. Just keep Sather out of personnel decisions and I'll be happy.
Of course he had things forced upon him by the lockout. Of course, without the cap he would have gone on doing the same things he had done before. Hey, this is Sather we are talking about. Even those, like me, who have been defending his recent behavior, understand who we are dealing with here: the Rangers would certainly be better off without him. But, even with the cap, he just could have gone on trading young talent and signing overpriced vets within the cap limits and shortcircuiting player development. #1 draft picks would have been dealt and our farm system neglected. He did not have to change one iota: Dolan would have kept him on even though we would have never made the playoffs and been the laughing stock of the league. For whatever reason, he did change his tune and the operating philosophy of the team. It has taken years to undue the mess that he made himself!

Bottom line for me is that it is a GMs job to give his coaching staff the tools and people necessary to compete and win. We (hopefully) have such a team now. We are certainly better than we were a few years ago. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks.

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08-04-2011, 10:44 AM
  #273
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I am a fan of the salary cap because I appreciate competitive balance and I find it way more interesting to follow leaguewide roster management with a cap.

But LOL at anyone who thinks the NYR wouldn't enjoy more success if the cap didn't exist.

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08-04-2011, 10:58 AM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
I am a fan of the salary cap because I appreciate competitive balance and I find it way more interesting to follow leaguewide roster management with a cap.

But LOL at anyone who thinks the NYR wouldn't enjoy more success if the cap didn't exist.
As a fan of the sport, I too appreciate competitive balance.

There are certainly times (maybe it is because as a Mets fan, I am jealous of the Yankees) when I wish that we could throw unlimited amounts of money at an unlimited amount of players.

But, I certainly remember the years from 1997 up until the lockout when, even though we signed free agent after free agent and traded for many a high-priced vet, we never made the playoffs. We are experiencing more success now with a solid home built core. Money certainly helps but it doesn't guarantee success. Neither does going with just young players. We seem to have struck the right balance.

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08-04-2011, 11:22 AM
  #275
Tawnos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
Bottom line for me is that it is a GMs job to give his coaching staff the tools and people necessary to compete and win. We (hopefully) have such a team now. We are certainly better than we were a few years ago. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks.
I know people are going to jump on this. If I can speak for him in this post, he's not talking about being actually better on the ice. He's talking about the makeup of the roster. To use yet another analogy someone mentioned earlier in this thread: he said that the teacher doesn't grade the paper until you take the test. Those of us who appreciate this summer and the makeup of the roster currently aren't grading his paper or his test. We're grading his homework.

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