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08-03-2011, 07:56 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
Multiple things appear to be at play here [as many of us opinied]

-weber angered poile elected arbitration to block offer sheets: Shows me that Weber really doesn't want to be here, or at the very least that he is willing to go somewhere else.
-poile's lack of commitment to winning by doing anything in off season to help offense:sets certain conditions on Weber's willingness to stay with the Preds
-change in agents and agents trying to make a name for themselves: Changing agents shows that Shea is dead set on getting it his way or nothing, if you disagree, you are out. Works in our favor on the ice, apparently not so much off the ice
-Predators yearly budget constraints and how that will keep them from truly competing for a stanley cup: same as point #2
-weber wanting to be the highest paid defenseman in the NHL: Definitely shows a lack of commitment to the organization, he knows the situation here and how important his contract is to that. If this is his stance, I wish we had never made him the captain
-Poile's cautious nature: Same as #2 and #4
All in all, looks like Shea isn't as committed as we were lead to believe. And we could be watching the beginning of the end for this chapter of Preds hockey, sad because it never really got started. We could be watching Blum-Ellis as our top pair in 2012-2013

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08-03-2011, 09:00 AM
  #752
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But the Predators had to spend 90 minutes explaining to the arbitrator why Shea Weber was worth that low ball offer. You think that doesn't the player just a little bit? Give me a break.
Of course arbitration is not good for the relationship. Contract negotations of this magnitude, and all their iterations, are often not good for the relationship. Money is the root of a lot of conflicts in life. Why should sport be different?

But it's amazing how quickly our big, bad, tough, bearded monster of a leader becomes as sensitive as a teenage girl once the arbitration hearing begins. The same supporting facts for the lowball have likely been mentioned on several occasions to Weber and/or his representation throughout the negotiations.

Something similar happens in performance reviews in top firms across the nation. I just find it humurous that somehow arbitration is going to spoil the relationship. The entirety of this process would be what spoils the relationship with arbitration just being a lesser component than the mere act of the team filing for arbitration, which would infuriate me because it reduces my ability to bargain.


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08-03-2011, 09:09 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
Here are a few articles worth reading:

http://www.foxsportstennessee.com/08...96&feedID=3732

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...ith-weber.html

http://www.examiner.com/nashville-pr...-s-arbitration



Multiple things appear to be at play here [as many of us opinied]
-weber angered poile elected arbitration to block offer sheets
-poile's lack of commitment to winning by doing anything in off season to help offense
-change in agents and agents trying to make a name for themselves
-Predators yearly budget constraints and how that will keep them from truly competing for a stanley cup
-weber wanting to be the highest paid defenseman in the NHL
-Poile's cautious nature
You wonder how much the Jeff Carter/Mike Richards trades spoiled all of this for Weber. Poile could tell Shea that the UFA market wasn't conducive to building a Cup winner (when is it ever?) with only one big name out there that was destined for NYC no matter what. But when you see two top-flight centers traded for picks and prospects, it's difficult for Poile to claim that there was no one out there to improve the team. And if that's why Weber wants to leave, it's difficult to see Suter or Rinne wanting to stay when the big payday awaits from a team that isn't passive and can spend to the cap max.

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08-03-2011, 09:42 AM
  #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
You wonder how much the Jeff Carter/Mike Richards trades spoiled all of this for Weber. Poile could tell Shea that the UFA market wasn't conducive to building a Cup winner (when is it ever?) with only one big name out there that was destined for NYC no matter what. But when you see two top-flight centers traded for picks and prospects, it's difficult for Poile to claim that there was no one out there to improve the team. And if that's why Weber wants to leave, it's difficult to see Suter or Rinne wanting to stay when the big payday awaits from a team that isn't passive and can spend to the cap max.
Voarcek and Schenn and Simmonds arent exactly prospects, but I get your point.

We really dont know if we had nabbed carter if it would have made a difference or if he is waiting on Rinne and Suter.

For this reason, I fundamentally disagree with anyone who says Poile needs to run right out and acquire someone who will satisfy Weber. I highly doubt that Weber would sign an extension next week if we trade for a scorer tomorrow. Weber is going to be locked in for one year and Poile will make moves that he believes are right for the team.

I think if we have a good year, Weber will sign long term.

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08-03-2011, 10:04 AM
  #755
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We have to keep Ryan Suter if Weber walks. It would be an absolute joke if we lost them both.

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08-03-2011, 10:54 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
You wonder how much the Jeff Carter/Mike Richards trades spoiled all of this for Weber. Poile could tell Shea that the UFA market wasn't conducive to building a Cup winner (when is it ever?) with only one big name out there that was destined for NYC no matter what. But when you see two top-flight centers traded for picks and prospects, it's difficult for Poile to claim that there was no one out there to improve the team. And if that's why Weber wants to leave, it's difficult to see Suter or Rinne wanting to stay when the big payday awaits from a team that isn't passive and can spend to the cap max.
In the effort to come up with something that hasn't already been said 219 times this summer (or at least I haven't seen this), consider this: If we're correct that Weber wants to see Poile moving this team forward in competitiveness and we presume that he is frustrated by the lack of Poile's moves and also what moves other teams have made, remember we're only working with the moves we've seen and maybe a few solid rumors that have flown around. Just imagine how much Weber and his agent are privy to because, you know, they are actually working in the game . If we're transferring our frustration with the Preds lack of moves to what Weber maybe is thinking, consider what Weber and his agent may know about the details of certain players who moved to another team that could have ended up in Nashville but didn't, or all of those other deals that were never actually executed. They would know so much more than we do about what Poile did or didn't do, whether anybody was even interested in coming to Nashville, or who knows what as the summer moved along. The difference between what Poile says about building the team and the realty of what Weber and his agent see as actually happening here through the information they get could be much more significant than we can imagine.

So if you're looking for what changed this summer between Weber and Poile, just think about all the other "inside" information versus the tip of the iceberg that we actually see or hear about. It's not just the details we know, but the ones we don't that could have certainly turned the tables.

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08-03-2011, 10:59 AM
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
You wonder how much the Jeff Carter/Mike Richards trades spoiled all of this for Weber. Poile could tell Shea that the UFA market wasn't conducive to building a Cup winner (when is it ever?) with only one big name out there that was destined for NYC no matter what. But when you see two top-flight centers traded for picks and prospects, it's difficult for Poile to claim that there was no one out there to improve the team. And if that's why Weber wants to leave, it's difficult to see Suter or Rinne wanting to stay when the big payday awaits from a team that isn't passive and can spend to the cap max.
Something that I hadn't thought about, and with Poile's passive nature [as evidenced by free agents admiting that they had to contact Poile initially to get something started] and Weber seeing this pattern up over and over....I would have trouble believing alot of empty promises as well.
I am sure the Skate of the Union discussion by Poile about everybody not having had their career years, resigning our leading scorer [sk74], maybe radulove will come back, Nick Spaling's top 6 potential, etc did nothing to help Weber relieve those fears.


Face it, this is a great organization for drafting, developing talent, and putting together a team of hard workers that are difficult to play enough to reach the Playoffs consistently......Poile has shown nothing in his 25 years of being a General Manager the ability or cojones to put together a bonafide Cup Contender, let alone keeping homegrown elite talent.

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08-03-2011, 11:23 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
Face it, this is a great organization for drafting, developing talent, and putting together a team of hard workers that are difficult to play enough to reach the Playoffs consistently......Poile has shown nothing in his 25 years of being a General Manager the ability or cojones to put together a bonafide Cup Contender, let alone keeping homegrown elite talent.
Are you assuming that Poile didn't offer a multi-year contract at a significant amount? Who else have we lost? (Do not play the Hamhuis card. Not equivalent to Weber.)

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08-03-2011, 11:36 AM
  #759
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After doing a lot of reading and thinking, I have come to the conclusion that GMDP is doing what the owners are telling him to do. We have a $$ limit and we are going to stick to that regardless of who is involved, and will say what the fans wanna hear to keep them interested. Our salaries have gone up because they have had too to due to CBA. Why we will pay Erat 6mil and not pay Weber more is mind boggling but that is where we are.

SW wants to be paid appropriately and also have a solid chance to win the Cup. I don't think he is seeing that happen in Nashville for a while. Ownership has to show willingness to spend more to get better players. Not just rely on developing our own, then to watch them leave for better $$. Not happening.

We are a very good team that plays better than what they look like on paper. We will continue to make the playoffs almost every year but that will be as far as we go. And I think that is what SW sees happening and he wants more than that. I want more than that. Not sure the Preds Owners want or can afford more than that.

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08-03-2011, 11:47 AM
  #760
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Just wanted to throw this out there. If we lose Weber for ANY of the following reasons:

Doesn't want to play in Nashville
Nashville won't have the payroll to be a Cup contender year after year
Wants to be the highest paid Dman in the NHL
Doesn't want to sign a long-term contract


If any of these reasons are true, that is fine. We will just work with what we have. Hopefully we can retain Suter and Rinne. And think about this: Gretzky was traded. GRETZKY. People, we can still get some da** good players in return for Weber IF he is traded. We can get a forward to score for us now. We can get a dman that will be our #3. And we can also get 2 great prospects for the future. Think about this, we replaced 1 all-world player for 1 great player, 1 above average player, and 2 players that in the future could possibly be all-world players.

It isn't a bad thing to keep your payroll down. Yes, that may mean we miss out on some incredible players in their prime. But we replace those players in their prime with 2-4 players that are better than the talent we have now. Let's just hope that Poile realizes this and doesn't let our all-world talent walk out the door for nothing.


Either way, it isn't the end of the world if Weber isn't on this team in 2012 or 2013. I wish people would quit acting like it is if we don't pay him or if we can't keep him.

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08-03-2011, 12:12 PM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
Just wanted to throw this out there. If we lose Weber for ANY of the following reasons:

Doesn't want to play in Nashville
Nashville won't have the payroll to be a Cup contender year after year
Wants to be the highest paid Dman in the NHL
Doesn't want to sign a long-term contract


If any of these reasons are true, that is fine. We will just work with what we have. Hopefully we can retain Suter and Rinne. And think about this: Gretzky was traded. GRETZKY. People, we can still get some da** good players in return for Weber IF he is traded. We can get a forward to score for us now. We can get a dman that will be our #3. And we can also get 2 great prospects for the future. Think about this, we replaced 1 all-world player for 1 great player, 1 above average player, and 2 players that in the future could possibly be all-world players.

It isn't a bad thing to keep your payroll down. Yes, that may mean we miss out on some incredible players in their prime. But we replace those players in their prime with 2-4 players that are better than the talent we have now. Let's just hope that Poile realizes this and doesn't let our all-world talent walk out the door for nothing.


Either way, it isn't the end of the world if Weber isn't on this team in 2012 or 2013. I wish people would quit acting like it is if we don't pay him or if we can't keep him.
It is the end of the world. If we can't retain arguably the best young defenseman in the game, then who is worth keeping? It makes a statement as to what your franchise is, and is very disillusioning as a fan. It's difficult to continue to pledge your loyalty, time and money to owners\management that isn't willing to match that commitment.

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08-03-2011, 12:18 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
It is the end of the world. If we can't retain arguably the best young defenseman in the game, then who is worth keeping? It makes a statement as to what your franchise is, and is very disillusioning as a fan. It's difficult to continue to pledge your loyalty, time and money to owners\management that isn't willing to match that commitment.
Exactly how I feel. I committed to a twelve game pack this year and I almost regret it. I've put up my money but the owners and DP are unwilling to put the money where their mouth is OR make the moves to better our team. We have a window of opportunity and we haven't just squandered it, we have killed it. This is going to be a painful year.

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08-03-2011, 12:18 PM
  #763
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Also, if signing Weber means we can't sign one of Suter or Rinne, then see-ya-later to whichever leaves. Weber should be the priority.

This is really starting to feel like it has disaster written all over it.

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08-03-2011, 12:21 PM
  #764
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There's so much talk about how if we'd only made the trade for Carter or Richards that Weber would have seen Poile is committed to winning, blah blah blah.

What the Preds had to offer differed greatly from what the Flyers accepted. We didn't have an early 1st round pick. We don't have prized forward prospects or 14 goal scoring 3rd liners to cough up. We have blueline prospects. We scoff when Poile says he tried to get in on those players, but it isn't like the Preds and Flyers haven't made a lot of deals over the years. It looks like we just didn't have the return Philly was looking for ... especially after our big midseason trade.

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08-03-2011, 12:24 PM
  #765
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Also, it is now secret that franson was one of weber's best friends. We traded him so I would think weber would be pissed about it. way to go poile

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08-03-2011, 12:31 PM
  #766
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Weber has to see that if we pay him 8mil a yr for 4-5 yrs then we will lose Suter and/or Rinne. Is that what he wants? Not sure (I would guess not). It really boils down to does Weber want to be on a Cup contender (yes) and are the Preds the team to do that with (hope so).

I still don't understand why a 1 yr deal could not have been worked out to avoid arbitration!

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08-03-2011, 12:43 PM
  #767
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when are we going to hear the ruling in the arbitration case?
my 2 cents.
Webber is worth more than $4.75mill but not worth the $8 mill he asking for.
Give him $6 - $6.5 imo

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08-03-2011, 12:45 PM
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
It is the end of the world. If we can't retain arguably the best young defenseman in the game, then who is worth keeping? It makes a statement as to what your franchise is, and is very disillusioning as a fan. It's difficult to continue to pledge your loyalty, time and money to owners\management that isn't willing to match that commitment.
None of this takes into the scenario (the most likely scenario, IMHO), that Weber just flat out doesn't want to be here.

If that's the case, then there's nothing management can do that can compel him to sign.


There's also no reason to give in to whatever he wants, salary-wise. Who cares if you piss him off in arb, he's gone anyway. Might as well shoot for a lower salary, save a buck for guys who do want to be here and make Weber more attractive on the trade market.

We don't know all the facts, so it could be that management is just being cheap. But you also have to at least consider the notion that the guy just wants to make flat out for UFA and a monster deal in a mega-market.

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08-03-2011, 12:49 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by weeze View Post
Weber has to see that if we pay him 8mil a yr for 4-5 yrs then we will lose Suter and/or Rinne. Is that what he wants? Not sure (I would guess not). It really boils down to does Weber want to be on a Cup contender (yes) and are the Preds the team to do that with (hope so).

I still don't understand why a 1 yr deal could not have been worked out to avoid arbitration!
IMO Webber wants out of NSH. Its not about the money, he wants to be on a contender.

Next year Weber is a RFA but is not eligible for club elected arbitration. All he has to do is sign a 1year offersheet, NSH can match. If they match they can NOT trade him for 1 year meaning Weber leaves as UFA at the end of year. If they match NSH gets draft picks. They can get a lot more than draft picks for him right now.

Bottom line is unless Weber signs a long term deal by trade deadline he is gone in a trade. Poile has no other choice. IMO Weber will be traded soon.

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08-03-2011, 12:50 PM
  #770
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Let me guess... he wants to go to say.. Vancouver?

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08-03-2011, 12:52 PM
  #771
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perspective

I asked for a miracle and I got perspective. Does it count? I don't know....


Weber + Suter is a freakish combination but Nashville needs offense badly. Poile can't just say 'good enough is good enough.' I was hesitant about having the 'big 3' all defensive in nature. I would have liked a player of their calibur offensively.

Weber is the face of the team. You got to the hockey hall of fame and the only Preds jerseys sold are Weber jerseys. He's a Canadian icon. He's a freak. But if Poile puts him at #3 of the big 3 I would move him for a forward. I hear rumors of Iggy and 2 1st?!?!? Parise + makes sense. Still all will complain anyway.

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08-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #772
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Let me guess... he wants to go to say.. Vancouver?
I don't know if he wants to go to Vancouver, I do think he wants to play on a team that spends to the cap. Vancouver is one of those teams but so is Detroit, Washington, etc etc.

If Weber was playing on Detroit this fiasco would not have happened. He would have signed long term for less than market value. Thats what most players on contending teams do.

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08-03-2011, 01:02 PM
  #773
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I don't know if he wants to go to Vancouver, I do think he wants to play on a team that spends to the cap. Vancouver is one of those teams but so is Detroit, Washington, etc etc.

If Weber was playing on Detroit this fiasco would not have happened. He would have signed long term for less than market value. Thats what most players on contending teams do.
As much as I hate to admit it, you are right on some accounts. I would replace "spends to the cap" with "is dedicated to winning" though. If we had signed Brad Richards or something, we could be at the midpoint and Weber wouldnt care. he just wants proof that we care about winning. But you are right that he is not gonna sign longterm til we do something.

As far as the good-team discount thing....what? Look at guys like Lidstrom, Joel Ward, Hamhuis, etc. They signed right at market value, Wardo well above it. Some players (Vokoun) take discounts, but some dont.

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08-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #774
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As much as I hate to admit it, you are right on some accounts. I would replace "spends to the cap" with "is dedicated to winning" though. If we had signed Brad Richards or something, we could be at the midpoint and Weber wouldnt care. he just wants proof that we care about winning. But you are right that he is not gonna sign longterm til we do something.
But but David Poile has shown that we are committed to winning by not making those gosh darn expensive deals. We've got offensive superstars Taylor Beck and Austin Watson coming up. Don't forget hard working Salomaki! And perhaps Radulov will one day come back and maybe break 60 points.

We are A-okay because we've got the system that produces offensive weapons.

We are committed to winning. Especially once we hit the cap floor with Weber's contract.

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08-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #775
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Lulu, it helps to actually have the cash in hand to spend to the cap which we do not. And spending to the cap doesn't always equal success. NYR anyone? You also have to have good management that drafts well and brings in FA pieces when needed. Can you say Detroit?

I don't blame Weber for wanting to go to a team that has a legitimate shot at a Cup. That's what every Canadian boy who plays hockey dreams of. I blame him for making the process more difficult than it needed to be.

I blame Poile for not reading the situation correctly and assuming it would be a piece of cake to sign him for a longer term deal. He should have realized a month ago that things were not progressing and offered a one year at 6.5-7 and gone from there.

I blame the owners for being disengenious about what they were willing to spend.

I am angry that this franchise has squandered all the good that came from getting to the second round. I'm tired of being the little franchise that can't.

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