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So Shea wants a short term deal ?

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08-03-2011, 02:34 PM
  #776
101st_fan
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I'm not sure which is less rational ... the arbitration process or our fanbase.

We should have signed Brad Richards (the fact that he took a paycut to play in New York for his old coach is irrelevant because his will doesn't matter) ... or traded for Carter or Mike Richards (nevermind the Flyers received young forwards and the #8 overall, neither of which the Preds had to offer). Couple the rants on here with the absolutely nutso arbitration numbers and there is more than enough insanity to go around.

Not every deal goes your team's way. Not every contract negotiation goes smoothly. Not signing the biggest name on the market is not a definitive sign that a team isn't committed to winning.

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08-03-2011, 02:36 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
You also have to have good management that drafts well
And goodness knows the Preds sure don't, what with so many high profile later-round busts like Martin Erat and Patric Hornqvist and Pekka Rinne and... wait, who was that guy we were talking about again in this thread?

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Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
and brings in FA pieces when needed.
Absolutely! Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, who was the Preds' leading scorer this past year?

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08-03-2011, 02:37 PM
  #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
I'm not sure which is less rational ... the arbitration process or our fanbase.
Do you really have a choice?

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08-03-2011, 02:44 PM
  #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
It is the end of the world. If we can't retain arguably the best young defenseman in the game, then who is worth keeping? It makes a statement as to what your franchise is, and is very disillusioning as a fan. It's difficult to continue to pledge your loyalty, time and money to owners\management that isn't willing to match that commitment.
Seriously? St. Louis traded Pronger and did fine without him. What about Boston and trading Thornton?

That is what teams do... You replace your super-star with 4 GREAT players. It makes your team deeper. That way, we can replace Ward with a player like Dubinsky or Wolski. Not only that, who is to say Ellis, Josi, Ekholm, Blum, etc all won't become superstars??? We can't pay ALL of those dmen plus Weber and Suter. If we have to lose one of those 6, you are telling me that it is the end of the world??? No... It isn't.

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08-03-2011, 02:54 PM
  #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
I'm not sure which is less rational ... the arbitration process or our fanbase....(snip)

Not every deal goes your team's way. Not every contract negotiation goes smoothly. Not signing the biggest name on the market is not a definitive sign that a team isn't committed to winning.
I agree with the bottom line you are advocating here: This team wants to win the Cup, and believes their system can do it without spending past the mid-point. Do they want to have $21M of salary tied up in 3 players?? That is where you are headed if you give Weber $7M.

I think it was almost inevitable one of the holy trinity (Weber, Suter, Rinne) would be lost in the next two years. Do I think that GMDP went into this off-season planning on that being Shea? No, I think he believed they would come to terms and the crisis would come next off season. But, if thru miscues and misunderstanding between the new agent puffing Shea up or DP just misreading his position, it ends up being Shea, one man does not a franchise make. Many of us will be hugely disappointed, no doubt about that. There will be recriminations and blame apportioned at some point. Some will believe it, some won't. There is a reason I don't buy a player jersey-- I buy a TEAM jersey.


Last edited by darth5: 08-03-2011 at 02:55 PM. Reason: fat fingers
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08-03-2011, 02:58 PM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
Seriously? St. Louis traded Pronger and did fine without him. What about Boston and trading Thornton?

That is what teams do... You replace your super-star with 4 GREAT players. It makes your team deeper. That way, we can replace Ward with a player like Dubinsky or Wolski. Not only that, who is to say Ellis, Josi, Ekholm, Blum, etc all won't become superstars??? We can't pay ALL of those dmen plus Weber and Suter. If we have to lose one of those 6, you are telling me that it is the end of the world??? No... It isn't.
St Louis traded Pronger for a package of garbage, and has missed the playoffs all but one year since.

Boston traded Thornton and a GM and two head coaches lost their jobs over the aftermath.

Not great examples.

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08-03-2011, 03:03 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
St Louis traded Pronger for a package of garbage, and has missed the playoffs all but one year since.

Boston traded Thornton and a GM and two head coaches lost their jobs over the aftermath.

Not great examples.
I'm sorry, I meant Shanahan from St. Louis to Hartford (Carolina) FOR Pronger. St. Louis went on a steak of making the playoffs every year after that. Boston won the Cup this most recent year post-Thornton. Point being, it didn't put either team into a tailspin and the sky didn't fall.

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08-03-2011, 03:04 PM
  #783
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Yeah...if Weber gets traded for anything similar to the St. Louis Pronger deal or the Thornton to San Jose deal, Poile needs to just go ahead and retire. Unless Marco Sturm counts as 4 great players.

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08-03-2011, 03:31 PM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevorbird View Post
Yeah...if Weber gets traded for anything similar to the St. Louis Pronger deal or the Thornton to San Jose deal, Poile needs to just go ahead and retire. Unless Marco Sturm counts as 4 great players.
youre missing the point. it isnt just the players that came back from the trade immediately. Thornton was to the B's what weber is to us. The trade sent the Bs in another direction, and if we are forced to trade Weber it will send us in another direction... who knows.... losing Weber could force Poile to find more offense to compensate for a weaker defense...

What it boils down to is whether Weber is bullspitting when he says he wants to be here. If thats true, then keep him and see what happens this year.

But if we have a pretty good idea he wants to go, then send him with our blessing and get a huge return and move on.

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08-03-2011, 03:47 PM
  #785
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I get the point, but that doesn't make that deal any better. Boston was in a position where they were done waiting on Thornton to be their superstar that carries the team. They traded him for "value" of depth players. Weber is our superstar that carries the team. It would basically have to be like the Pronger/Shanahan deal, which would mean Parise is one of the few players that fit the bill. Weber may or may not want to be here, but the arbitration hearing is a horrible sign and he probably needs to be traded. I don't want him traded and I think it's bad to lose your captain that you were prepared to sink a whole truckload of money into, but it is what it is. Ship him out, give Suter the C and bring in his friend.

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08-03-2011, 03:49 PM
  #786
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he got $7.5 million

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=373133

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08-03-2011, 03:53 PM
  #787
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Funny people mention Thornton deal where Boston wins the cup 6 years later without any of the players in the mentioned deal.

Not to mention not mentioning the Kovalchuk deal. Or Luongo.

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08-03-2011, 05:59 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Funny people mention Thornton deal where Boston wins the cup 6 years later without any of the players in the mentioned deal.

Not to mention not mentioning the Kovalchuk deal. Or Luongo.
You are missing the point. The point was that these teams didn't die off after the trade. Not all was lost. The sky didn't fall after. They were still competitive relatively quickly after. It wasn't like after trading their best player that they were never competitive again for 5-10 years.

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08-03-2011, 06:16 PM
  #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevorbird View Post
I get the point, but that doesn't make that deal any better. Boston was in a position where they were done waiting on Thornton to be their superstar that carries the team. They traded him for "value" of depth players. Weber is our superstar that carries the team. It would basically have to be like the Pronger/Shanahan deal, which would mean Parise is one of the few players that fit the bill. Weber may or may not want to be here, but the arbitration hearing is a horrible sign and he probably needs to be traded. I don't want him traded and I think it's bad to lose your captain that you were prepared to sink a whole truckload of money into, but it is what it is. Ship him out, give Suter the C and bring in his friend.
Weber carries this team? Really? Suter goes out for about 12 games last season and what was our record? Sub .500. While Weber is the glamourous pick, Suter is still the better overall player. There's also this kid named, what is it again, Pekka Rinne? You've heard of him right? Vezina finalist. Hockey being a team sport you can't get by with one player, no matter who they are. The Penguins still made the playoffs without Crosby and Malkin. If they can survive without those two for substantial time, we can survive the loss of Weber if we get a good package of players in return.

Say Poile was able to land two forwards that could net 40 points a year a piece. Well, we've already got 7 forwards with that sort of potential. That would mean 9 players up front with the possibility of scoring 40+. How do other teams stop that? It's basically scoring by committee and having 3 second lines. While we don't have a dominant top line, we have 3 lines capable of lighting the lamp every night. Get some balance from the fourth line and we're fine. As someone stated earlier today, add a guy like Hannan to the blue line, pair him up with Blum, shift Klein to play with Suter and we're still a very good defensive team. Yes, I realize Klein isn't Weber but Klein's sole responsibility is to play D and let Suter handle the puck. That pairing would be excellent because of their mobility. Let Blum be the puck mover with Hannan and our top 4 is solid.

I don't want to see any of the Big 3 to go anywhere but if it happens it happens, not much I can do about it.

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08-03-2011, 06:17 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
You are missing the point. The point was that these teams didn't die off after the trade. Not all was lost. The sky didn't fall after. They were still competitive relatively quickly after. It wasn't like after trading their best player that they were never competitive again for 5-10 years.
Atlanta.. Florida?

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08-03-2011, 06:33 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Atlanta.. Florida?
Are you really comparing us to those teams? LOL. Really? If we trade Weber we still have a very strong core. You know, we still have Suter and Rinne plus a whole roster full of some pretty decent players. Add the players that come back for Weber and we're probably deeper up front and it's not like we're not a blue line factory.

Say we trade Weber, we lose the elite pairing but don't you think Suter and Rinne would have something to prove? I would say Suter would play with a bigger chip on his shoulder and from his Olympic performance, he'd become a stud out there. He'd be out of Shea's shadow and he'd get to show the world how good he is. I think what people forget is how good he is, how much he makes that pairing go, how bad Weber looked when he had to be the primary puck mover and how much Weber has benefitted from playing with good puck movers at the Olympics(Niedermayer) and the All-Star game(Lidstrom). What does he look like if he's the main puck mover? I don't think he stands out as much and struggles. If he wants out, don't let the door hit you on the way out. If he wants to stay, then great, take your game up a notch and let's start knocking on the Cup's door.

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08-03-2011, 06:50 PM
  #792
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Shea is full of ****. Did you hear him in the conference call say that he's glad the arbitration process is over "for now"? WTF Shea? Are you already planning on not signing anything next summer either?

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08-03-2011, 06:56 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
As much as I hate to admit it, you are right on some accounts. I would replace "spends to the cap" with "is dedicated to winning" though. If we had signed Brad Richards or something, we could be at the midpoint and Weber wouldnt care. he just wants proof that we care about winning. But you are right that he is not gonna sign longterm til we do something.

As far as the good-team discount thing....what? Look at guys like Lidstrom, Joel Ward, Hamhuis, etc. They signed right at market value, Wardo well above it. Some players (Vokoun) take discounts, but some dont.
I was speaking about home grown core players. Hamhuis was offered $3 million more over the length of his contract by Penguins,(500k per yr) He signed for less to play in Vancouver because its his home province and its a great team. He would have signed for the same contract in NSH as well because that was the team he got drafted on.

Lidstrom allways takes less. He could have left Detroit to sign for more money. Sedins could have gotten 7mill each in Toronto, instead they took 6.1 in Van. Weber would take less if he was on a team that was up against the cap.

Kesler and Bieksa both took less than market value. They both said in the media that everyone takes less to play in Vancouver before they signed and got in trouble by the NHLPA.

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08-03-2011, 07:18 PM
  #794
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appologies double post

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08-04-2011, 09:00 AM
  #795
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What do you guys think about Stastny for Weber (I know I did propose this deal earlier this offseason), this trade gives Preds a young legitimate two-way 1st line center that would fit great in Preds system IMHO, plus he's under contract until 2014/15 season, and it gives Avs a legitamite #1 defensman, and takes pressure from EJ to play #1 minutes at this point. Avs would probably need to add something, but I'm not sure what would it be.

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08-04-2011, 09:37 AM
  #796
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I agree with Glenn. If he wants to leave , fine. And from everything that happened, he probably does. Build around Suter.
Weber gives me the uncomfortable feeling of a"prove it to me" attitude and I frankly don't believe what he says about Nashville. I just hope it doesn't carry over into the locker room

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08-04-2011, 09:45 AM
  #797
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Do we have any hope of re-signing Suter at this point? If we try to give him the C and make him the new face of the franchise. He'll think "What, I wasn't good enough the first time around?" I really hope we can keep Ryan, he's more valuable to the team hockey-wise than Weber is regardless.

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08-04-2011, 09:51 AM
  #798
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I think Shea Weber wants to give the Predators a chance with a 2-3 year deal. He'll sign for a little less but not for long term. If the team cannot build a winner by then he's out. And Poile of course wants long term.

I think after this year the sides will come together on a 2-3 year deal if he isn't traded in the offseason. Look no further then Poile's comments yesterday "We hope to sign him to a *longer* term contract." Not long term but longer term. Big difference.

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08-04-2011, 09:57 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by pekkaslap View Post
Do we have any hope of re-signing Suter at this point? If we try to give him the C and make him the new face of the franchise. He'll think "What, I wasn't good enough the first time around?" I really hope we can keep Ryan, he's more valuable to the team hockey-wise than Weber is regardless.
I think it hinges, to a large extent, on signing Weber. If the Preds can't sign Weber, then it would seem it's because of his concern with the future of the franchise. If that's the case, why would Suter sign? It's not like the Preds can pay him more than anyone else or offer him something he couldn't pass up. If the Preds don't keep Weber, I'd think it's a foregone conclusion that Suter, who unlike Weber hasn't made consistent public statements about staying, is out the door.

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08-04-2011, 10:00 AM
  #800
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Then I guess Pekka is gone too? Oh boy, this Weber thing really screws us.

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