HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Shea Weber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-03-2011, 04:54 PM
  #76
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Suter is more like a really good two way guy...moreso than anyone on the Rangers. Can put up around 40 points while playing #1 shutdown minutes.

Yes it'd probably serve them better to get more of an offensive type defenseman, but Suter is reallllllly freaking good and would basically make any defense in the league better.

The cost to get Weber would be astronomical and require that the Rangers send their best prospects as well as one or two of their best young forwards
I think I'd rather wait a year to try and get Suter rather than trade off a number of really good players and prospects for Weber. I know on the trade board they have something like Dubinsky, Kreider, MDZ and our 2012 1st for Weber--which wouldn't work anyway with what we have for cap space but takes our best left wing and best left wing (if not best) prospect.

Just to add--if Nashville doesn't like Weber's contract this year--they're not going to like doing it all over again next year and with Suter to deal with at the same time. Seems fairly likely that they're going to move one or the other.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 04:59 PM
  #77
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,431
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
we probably have the deepest D corps in the NHL...we dont *need* a 7.5 million dollar Shea Weber as much as we *need* a 7.5 million dollar Parise....especially when you consider the amount of prospects that would have to head back the other way to GET a Shea Weber vs what only costs you cash in Parise.
I tend to agree with this. However, to play Devil's advocate, Weber does fill a role that we sorely lack at the moment - PP shooter. While I believe that adding Richards as the PPQB will improve our PP dramatically, a PP unit with Richards and Weber manning the points would undoubtedly be one of the top in the league. You wouldn't acquire Weber just to improve the team's defense. He's a guy that has scored 16 goals, 16 goals, and 23 goals in the last three years as a defenseman (while adding 32, 27, and 30 assists), while being one of the most physically intimidating players in the league.

When you figure Parise could be a UFA next July 1st, while Weber would cost significant assets, Parise would make even more sense. However, the virtues of Shea Weber should not be downplayed.

azrok22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 05:20 PM
  #78
DrSutton*
Given Up
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I tend to agree with this. However, to play Devil's advocate, Weber does fill a role that we sorely lack at the moment - PP shooter. While I believe that adding Richards as the PPQB will improve our PP dramatically, a PP unit with Richards and Weber manning the points would undoubtedly be one of the top in the league. You wouldn't acquire Weber just to improve the team's defense. He's a guy that has scored 16 goals, 16 goals, and 23 goals in the last three years as a defenseman (while adding 32, 27, and 30 assists), while being one of the most physically intimidating players in the league.

When you figure Parise could be a UFA next July 1st, while Weber would cost significant assets, Parise would make even more sense. However, the virtues of Shea Weber should not be downplayed.
I'm gonna second this. A staal-weber pairing would be amongst the best in the league. Defense wins championships. Parise would be great but we could probably go get a guy who is half the player parise is (which is still saying a lot) and be more successful then if we grabbed parise and didn't add a player of webers character. Unfortunately, none of our dmen are going to be a Weber anytime soon. I think our blueline is fantastic, but adding weber would put us in championship mode.

Besides the fact that I pretty much think Parise is a pipedream and Webers salary is pretty big right now.

DrSutton* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 05:46 PM
  #79
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Im late to the thread, but on XM/Sirius they talked a lot about the Weber situation.

He and his agent were seeking over 8 million for one year.

Weber is a fantastic defenseman but talk about a guy with an inflated sense of self worth.

And awarded 7+ in arbitration?

Stay the heck away from this guy at all costs.

If he wanted out of Nashville he should have just asked for a trade. Pricing your team out and lowering your value by making such ridiculous contractual demands is obnoxious.

If I were a Preds fan id be furious.

They should trade him and try to get big value in return, just not to/from the Rangers.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 05:55 PM
  #80
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
we probably have the deepest D corps in the NHL...we dont *need* a 7.5 million dollar Shea Weber as much as we *need* a 7.5 million dollar Parise....especially when you consider the amount of prospects that would have to head back the other way to GET a Shea Weber vs what only costs you cash in Parise.
that's a good point. If it's $7.5M Parise over $7.5M Weber, I would lean towards taking Parise. They are both still so young

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 05:58 PM
  #81
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
that's a good point. If it's $7.5M Parise over $7.5M Weber, I would lean towards taking Parise. They are both still so young
I think most here would too considering it wouldnt be a 1 for 1 deal......

It would end up being:

Dubinsky + Kreider + Thomas + Parise

for

Weber

But that is counting your chickens before they hatch

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 06:02 PM
  #82
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,431
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Im late to the thread, but on XM/Sirius they talked a lot about the Weber situation.

He and his agent were seeking over 8 million for one year.

Weber is a fantastic defenseman but talk about a guy with an inflated sense of self worth.

And awarded 7+ in arbitration?

Stay the heck away from this guy at all costs.

If he wanted out of Nashville he should have just asked for a trade. Pricing your team out and lowering your value by making such ridiculous contractual demands is obnoxious.

If I were a Preds fan id be furious.

They should trade him and try to get big value in return, just not to/from the Rangers.
You're blowing the number he requested from the arbitrator way out of proportion. The way NHL arbitration works, the player presents a ridiculously high offer, and the team presents a ridiculously low offer, because the arbitrator is empowered to pick any number between those two figures. Yes, Weber asked for $8.5m from the arbitrator, but the Predators presented an equally ridiculous $4.75m figure.

Dubinsky was asking for $5m-$5.25m in arbitration, iirc. Obviously, he ended up signing for far less. It's just the nature of the game.

azrok22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 06:11 PM
  #83
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,360
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Im late to the thread, but on XM/Sirius they talked a lot about the Weber situation.

He and his agent were seeking over 8 million for one year.

Weber is a fantastic defenseman but talk about a guy with an inflated sense of self worth.

And awarded 7+ in arbitration?

Stay the heck away from this guy at all costs.

If he wanted out of Nashville he should have just asked for a trade. Pricing your team out and lowering your value by making such ridiculous contractual demands is obnoxious.

If I were a Preds fan id be furious.

They should trade him and try to get big value in return, just not to/from the Rangers.
I'd be very ok with giving him an Ehrhoff deal with maybe a few more million added in the beginning to make the cap hit 6 million.

12, 12, 10, 8, 8, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 1, 1, 1, 1

14 year deal worth 84 mil, cap hit of 6 million, with the real deal being worth 8 mil AAV.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 06:16 PM
  #84
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
There's a huge difference between 8+ mil/year and 4+ or even 6.

I understand what a negotiation is, any defenseman asking for 8+ no matter the semantics, is lunacy, sheer lunacy.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 06:22 PM
  #85
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,431
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
There's a huge difference between 8+ mil/year and 4+ or even 6.

I understand what a negotiation is, any defenseman asking for 8+ no matter the semantics, is lunacy, sheer lunacy.
Asking the arbitrator. Again, what either side requests from the arbitrator is very different from what they actually want/expect.

Just as Nashville knew they weren't getting him for $4.75m, Weber had no expectation of getting $8.5m.

In most cases, the arbitrator just splits the difference between both sides. In this case, they went a bit higher than the difference (which would've been $6.6m).

azrok22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 06:26 PM
  #86
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
7.5 is awfully close to 8.

And significantly higher then the 4+ Nashville submitted.

Don't care how you spin it, Weber clearly has a distorted and bloated sense of self worth.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 06:33 PM
  #87
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
There's still hope for Rinne and Suter. Things don't look good for Weber after he and the team were 4 million apart going into arbitration.
Poille was stupid to think Weber was worth only 4.875. What a lowball offer, I'd be pissed too if I was Shea.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 06:35 PM
  #88
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
I have a gut feeling that Suter will sign with Detroit to replace Lidstrom, Weber and Rinne gets re-signed with Nashville.

There was a reason Holland wasn't going to use up his 5.8 mil cap space this year.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 07:13 PM
  #89
DrSutton*
Given Up
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
7.5 is awfully close to 8.

And significantly higher then the 4+ Nashville submitted.

Don't care how you spin it, Weber clearly has a distorted and bloated sense of self worth.
This isn't just some schlub off the street. He was 9 votes away from winning the Norris last year over Lidstrom. He's a number 1 defenseman in every sense of the word. Those are worth their weight in Gold, and clearly the arbitrator saw that, couldn't even split the difference.

DrSutton* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 07:23 PM
  #90
Rangers1135
Registered User
 
Rangers1135's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,359
vCash: 500
I don't feel right about giving away our best prospect, a possible future captain, and a young good defenseman for Weber. I rather get Suter as an UFA or Parise. I rather get Parise. We need scoring. Our D is phenomenal already. With Parise, we will be a Cup contender, with Weber we are a cup contender. IDK.

Rangers1135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 07:24 PM
  #91
gotmonte
Registered User
 
gotmonte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New York
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,545
vCash: 500
As for signing Weber in a few years when he becomes a UFA, how are we fitting him and the rest of our team PLUS THE RAISES OF THE 2014 CROP?

We have a cap ya know

gotmonte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 07:39 PM
  #92
JeffMangum
Ra shi da
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 55,640
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Don't care how you spin it, Weber clearly has a distorted and bloated sense of self worth.
No one is spinning anything.

The player is going to go into arbitration asking for a ridiculously high number - the club will go in asking for a ridiculously low number. It's standard tactics.

__________________

#TannerGlass2014
SEEN YOUR VIDEO!
#SheWentToHarvard
JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 08:00 PM
  #93
ecemleafs
Registered User
 
ecemleafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,055
vCash: 500
its amazing how many posters have no comprehension of negotiation tactics and getting the most u can get. hes team captain, in the prime of his career, booming shot and hitter, olympic gold medalist....hes gonna ask for a lot of money. the arbiter is the one who decides.

if any person were in a job situation where the could get more money, who would say na, **** it...just give me what u want and ill take it.

ecemleafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 08:19 PM
  #94
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,402
vCash: 500
Yeah, I'm with the Parise crowd

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 09:47 PM
  #95
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
its amazing how many posters have no comprehension of negotiation tactics and getting the most u can get. hes team captain, in the prime of his career, booming shot and hitter, olympic gold medalist....hes gonna ask for a lot of money. the arbiter is the one who decides.

if any person were in a job situation where the could get more money, who would say na, **** it...just give me what u want and ill take it.
Everyone knows what negotiations are. Can't compare real world job situations with the island fantasy of professional sports. If someone went to their employer and demanded the kind of raise Weber did, they would be in Hackensack on the unemployment line.

There's starting high and then there's being crazy. The arbitrator was equally as crazy to fall for it.

Good luck to Nashville keeping him. And, pity the team that pays him whatever lunacy he will be seeking on the open market one day.

This is the kind of crap that caused a lockout. Owners wont continue to stand for players getting everything they want for very long. CBA expires soon...

Players are going to have to start taking "pay cuts" sooner or later. Worst economic landscape in the US in our lifetime. Where's the revenue going to continue to come from. Players salaries continue to rise. It can't last forever. This kind of nonsense, like the Weber award, will simply push a lockout closer to reality.

Im not pro-player nor pro-owner, im pro-what ever is best for the NHL.

They need to structure something where teams can pay and keep their homegrown players without it killing their cap situation.

As far as the Rangers go and players like Weber with ridiculous demands (8 million is ridiculous in any situation, arbitration or not), no thanks I like what we have going. We got our guy to a fine cap hit, and we have a nice looking core together with more on the way. No need to disrupt that. And im not suggesting you were saying we should or anyone is saying we should, im just expressing my feelings toward the situation.

Just my opinion.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2011, 10:02 PM
  #96
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Everyone knows what negotiations are. Can't compare real world job situations with the island fantasy of professional sports. If someone went to their employer and demanded the kind of raise Weber did, they would be in Hackensack on the unemployment line.

There's starting high and then there's being crazy. The arbitrator was equally as crazy to fall for it.

Good luck to Nashville keeping him. And, pity the team that pays him whatever lunacy he will be seeking on the open market one day.

This is the kind of crap that caused a lockout. Owners wont continue to stand for players getting everything they want for very long. CBA expires soon...

Players are going to have to start taking "pay cuts" sooner or later. Worst economic landscape in the US in our lifetime. Where's the revenue going to continue to come from. Players salaries continue to rise. It can't last forever. This kind of nonsense, like the Weber award, will simply push a lockout closer to reality.

Im not pro-player nor pro-owner, im pro-what ever is best for the NHL.

They need to structure something where teams can pay and keep their homegrown players without it killing their cap situation.

As far as the Rangers go and players like Weber with ridiculous demands (8 million is ridiculous in any situation, arbitration or not), no thanks I like what we have going. We got our guy to a fine cap hit, and we have a nice looking core together with more on the way. No need to disrupt that. And im not suggesting you were saying we should or anyone is saying we should, im just expressing my feelings toward the situation.

Just my opinion.
What Weber did here is pretty standard for slightly overrated franchise players of small market teams in the United States. The only difference is, in most cases, the comaprable situation involves a forward, not a defenseman.

Exhibit A - Eric Staal
Exhibit B - Rick Nash

Two very, very good players, among the top 5 highest paid players in the league. Neither is a top 5 player in the league. Neither is a top 10 player in the league. But Carolina and Columbus need them, and the way Weber sees things, Nashville needs him. Maybe he's a little off in that sense, because Nashville has some great options at defense aside from him, but I see where he is coming from.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2011, 08:40 AM
  #97
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Everyone knows what negotiations are. Can't compare real world job situations with the island fantasy of professional sports. If someone went to their employer and demanded the kind of raise Weber did, they would be in Hackensack on the unemployment line.
If your employer needs you and cannot replace easily, you won't be shown the door. Most likely you'll get what you want, although it may be less than you asked. Then if you under-perform that could be held against you, but so would be the case with Weber. Remember, if your employer or GM loves you, it is a sure sign that you're underpaid.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2011, 10:25 AM
  #98
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Nashville is known to be a budget team, though.

They need to structure something into the next CBA that allows teams to retain homegrown players without it killing their cap.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2011, 10:56 AM
  #99
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,184
vCash: 500
I hope Nashville keeps everyone....I REALLY like that team. Not sure what it is but I like how they are a new team who plays the right way and develops players and does well. The city seems to be behind them as well. Just a model organization for an expansion team.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2011, 11:48 AM
  #100
Florida Ranger
Bring back Torts!
 
Florida Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa, FLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I hope Nashville keeps everyone....I REALLY like that team. Not sure what it is but I like how they are a new team who plays the right way and develops players and does well. The city seems to be behind them as well. Just a model organization for an expansion team.
Yup. That's why I really would like to see them win a Cup if not the Rangers and then Tampa (gotta back up the hometown a little).

They seem to be such a discreet and a well controlled organization. Everything seems really good about that franchise.

Florida Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.