I've been saying he's not a Stars fan in every trade proposal thread when he comes in and bashes the Stars players. It's sad he's still trying to trick everyone that he is indeed a Stars fan.
It's just honesty, really.
Benn scores about as many points/season as Morrow. Just because he shows flashes of brilliance does not suddenly make him a superstar for next season. He's a nice player, but he's a downgrade from Richards.
The only people making those comparisons about Benn are the chuckleheads on this board.
Actually I was referring to Les Jackson saying that. He said he was hesitant to say this, but he felt like he saw Modano in Benn. That's not fair IMO.
I do think he'll have a good season, but the point still stands that the team seems to be putting a ton of pressure on him not just fans on this board.
So I think you misunderstood my post because I agree that Benn has work to do before being a legitimate Top 6 center. I just tend to believe he's shown enough to be excited and hopeful that he has it in him. The over-hype is the Stars fault though not some fans on this random board. Most people aren't going to take Jackson's comments lightly.
Benn scores about as many points/season as Morrow. Just because he shows flashes of brilliance does not suddenly make him a superstar for next season. He's a nice player, but he's a downgrade from Richards.
You're talking in the present tense about a 22 year old player as if that is what one should expect from him his entire career. If that were the case Brenden Morrow would be Rob Dimaio.
I'll take Benn's all-around defensive game, offensive game, and yes - intangibles, any day of the week over Richards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44
The over-hype is the Stars fault though not some fans on this random board.
I feel hype is a dirty word in this circumstance. The Stars have been forced to make some decisions and move forward based on those decisions. I don't think expecting things from a player who internal scouts and player development types believe to be a special player is hyping or over-hyping anything. He either will prove to be that or not. Comparing him to the face of the franchise for the last 15 years is unfair but not because of hockey reasons.
Last edited by glovesave_35: 08-04-2011 at 12:51 AM.
Benn scores about as many points/season as Morrow. Just because he shows flashes of brilliance does not suddenly make him a superstar for next season. He's a nice player, but he's a downgrade from Richards.
Entering his third season. But I guess you're right, what he does as a 2nd year player is his ceiling. Makes perfect sense.
The praise for Richards is what has gotten out of hand. His defensive game is non existent. He may be a great point producer, but people acting like he's an elite center is ridiculous.
The praise for Richards is what has gotten out of hand. His defensive game is non existent. He may be a great point producer, but people acting like he's an elite center is ridiculous.
This screams of a scorned lover who is in the process of moving on. Benn will be lucky to have the offensive game of Richards.
Benn was already essentially the offensive equal of Richards last season: he only scored .09 5v5 PTS/60 less. That's nothing. Richards' prodigious production was mostly siphoned off from excessive PP time, a PP he failed to make dangerous. And obviously Benn shames Richards in the defensive end. This doesn't account whatsoever for improvement.
Benn isn't being overhyped. He's being hyped, because he's ****ing good and likely to get better. If you disagree you can always run along back to TSF and resume jerking off to Richards' glorious memory.
Benn was already essentially the offensive equal of Richards last season: he only scored .09 5v5 PTS/60 less. That's nothing. Richards' prodigious production was mostly siphoned off from excessive PP time, a PP he failed to make dangerous.
To equalize them, you have to whittle this down using a pretty stupid stat. You could do the same thing for a lot of great players. Of course Richards got a lot of his points on the power play. That's where most every great player gets a big chunk of their points. Setting aside powerplay production makes no sense. That's as much a part of the game as even strength.
Can Benn produce as much as Richards on the power play? We don't know. It would be great, but that's a pretty high bar to set. I applaud your optimism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued
Benn isn't being overhyped. He's being hyped, because he's ****ing good and likely to get better. If you disagree you can always run along back to TSF and resume jerking off to Richards' glorious memory.
Jerking off? Sorry, but subtracting the team's best forward and replacing him with assumed greatness won't do much to make me stir. I'm not going to lie to myself and pretend this team won't miss a beat and that somehow subtracting good players is worth defending. No, my little Stars fan won't ever stand up to celebrate the loss of talent.
I'm not celebrating the loss of talent. That's ridiculous. Of course I'd rather have both Richards and Benn, but that's not the situation we find ourselves in. I don't think we'll miss a beat and I'm not lying to myself.
Explain how that is a "pretty stupid stat". This should be good. I'm not discounting PP production either, I'm simply saying that's where Richards separates himself in the raw numbers. Where it's much easier to put up points. And he could only do that by being the undisputed focal point that everything else ran through to the tune of an 18% success rate and 15 shorthanded goals against. How will we ever get it back to that level?
I don't think we'll miss a beat and I'm not lying to myself.
But you just did. Right there at the beginning of the sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued
Explain how that is a "pretty stupid stat". This should be good.
I guess I should clarify. I was talking more about the use of the stat and not the calculation itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued
I'm not discounting PP production either, I'm simply saying that's where Richards separates himself in the raw numbers.
Okay good, I'd hate to see someone discount a vital part of any team's offensiv---
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued
Where it's much easier to put up points. And he could only do that by being the undisputed focal point that everything else ran though to the tune of an 18% success rate and 15 shorthanded goals against.
But I thought you weren't going to discount powerplay production. Now I'm confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued
How will we ever get back to that level?
Back to being in the top half of all teams on the power play? That's bad all of a sudden? 18% may not be sexy, but there are a lot of teams looking up at 18% every season with jealous eyes.
This screams of a scorned lover who is in the process of moving on. Benn will be lucky to have the offensive game of Richards.
That's the excuse everyone uses because clearly Richards is a ****ing saint. Even if Benn were to never hit 90 points, I take a 70-80 point player with great defensive game over a 90 point player with no defensive game every single time. All people ever talk about with Richards is offense. It's as if defense doesn't matter whenever he's brought up.
That's the excuse everyone uses because clearly Richards is a ****ing saint. Even if Benn were to never hit 90 points, I take a 70-80 point player with great defensive game over a 90 point player with no defensive game every single time. All people ever talk about with Richards is offense. It's as if defense doesn't matter whenever he's brought up.
Actually, I would too. But Benn is not that.
Also, why do you think Benn has a great defensive game? Do you think just because someone is relatively feisty that makes them good defensively?
You're talking in the present tense about a 22 year old player as if that is what one should expect from him his entire career. If that were the case Brenden Morrow would be Rob Dimaio.
I'll take Benn's all-around defensive game, offensive game, and yes - intangibles, any day of the week over Richards.
What intagibles does Benn possess? He's not particularly good defensively and doesn't share the puck at a high level. His instincts as far as where to be on the ice are sub-Ribeiro level. I do think he's tough minded and a hard player. He has the ability to create his own offense which is something very special. Very few players have that.
And I do expect him to improve. I would be overjoyed if he hit 70 points with his uptick in ice time this season.
until Benn learns to pass hes not going to be a point per game player. Hes ok defensively and plays a good physical game. A great player to have but I don't see franchise player in him.
Richards wasn't a franchise player either, IMO. A strictly offensive player who is capable of playing good defense but doesn't. I'm glad we didn't sign him to the contract the Rangers did but in the short term losing him is certainly going to hurt.
If any of you live near the Stars practice facility, watch out. Ryder drives a big white escalade and tends to drive in the opposite lane to get where he needs to go. I made the mistake of leaving the Bruins training facility at the same time and I almost got my ass run over.
If any of you live near the Stars practice facility, watch out. Ryder drives a big white escalade and tends to drive in the opposite lane to get where he needs to go. I made the mistake of leaving the Bruins training facility at the same time and I almost got my ass run over.
Benn isn't great defensively. He's average to slightly above but he hustles, and that's what makes him seem so much stronger than Richards (who had moments were he was like "screw this" and just let guys by him). He's well above average shorthanded but he gets running around some 5 v.5.
I would also take Richards' offensive game over Benn's at this point because Richards has the proven ability to make everyone around him better producers as well. Benn is great at creating his own chances and is learning to playmake, but he's certainly not at Richards' level yet. Could he be? Sure, and he has a better shot that some others at getting there eventually, but it's far from a given at this point.
And piqued - equalizing PPM is a little deceiving because one of the things that separates the great players from the merely good ones is that great players are able to increase production with their ice time. A lot of good players can't turn that 50 points into 70 points when they get 20 minutes per game instead of 15. Also, power plays are a very important part of a team's offense - it's unfair to throw one player's numbers there out.
Now, I like Benn a lot and think he has a very good chance to develop into one of the best scorers in the division. But people are acting like that development is a given, and I think that's what some find a little stupid. He could be a player with Richards-like production eventually, but he isn't there yet.
And piqued - equalizing PPM is a little deceiving because one of the things that separates the great players from the merely good ones is that great players are able to increase production with their ice time. A lot of good players can't turn that 50 points into 70 points when they get 20 minutes per game instead of 15.
Not deceiving at all if it's applied properly. Benn isn't some 3rd or 4th liner that I'm projecting and prorating to the moon. He played 2 minutes less per game at even strength than Richards. And that includes the entire season. I bet he was getting right up around the same 16 minute mark per game down the stretch that was the norm for Richards when Crawford was relying on him (and he was delivering). Then add to that the fact that Benn had a higher 5v5 QUALCOMP than Richards and it's completely appropriate to project his rate scoring as holding at that level at the very least. And once again, I'm not discounting Richards' PP points, just saying that when one guy plays 3 more minutes a night with a man advantage than another, well, there's one place to look to account for a discrepancy.
I think the Benn comparisons to over Richards or equal to Modano are premature for the simple fact that we haven't even seen what he's capable of in the playoffs. I will agree that I'd rather have a Ribeiro-Benn combo at center instead of a Richards-Ribeiro combo up front. Benns defensive game si absolutely superb two-way hockey. It's only going to get better this year while we have a great coaching staff.
