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Hawks re-sign Sharp, 5 years at $5.9m per

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08-03-2011, 04:48 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
They struggled to make the playoffs last year.

Its the Sharks that worry me a lot more with their additions of Handzus, White, and Burns, and with Couture moving up the ranks with lightning speed.
They struggled to make the playoffs last year because of the cup hangover, no 3rd or 4th line or depth defensively, and no grit.

Now there is no hangover, the Hawks are mad, young and in shape, prepared, they have better role players, some grit, and more depth defensively.

When your Wings finished 5th (5th to 8th was pretty much the same since it was a couple points) a couple years ago you guys had crap happen as well. The next year you guys had a really good season although not much better than the Hawks since you can't get past the 2nd round anymore.

The point is that last year was a fluke. If you think the Hawks will finish 8th or worse next year then you are mistaken. Of course this is just my opinion. I think most people think the Hawks will finish at least 5th in the conference this year.

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08-03-2011, 04:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
This year, Crawford is still unproven, and while they're a hell of a lot scrappier this year than they were last, losing Campbell is a much bigger deal than people are making it out to be, simply because of the salary that was moved as a result. They also lost Brouwer and Kopecky who, while not exactly huge pieces to the puzzle, weren't exactly upgraded with additions like Brunette and Olesz.

Its the Sharks that worry me a lot more with their additions of Handzus, White, and Burns, and with Couture moving up the ranks with lightning speed.
Crawford unproven? lol did you even watch the Hawks last year? If it wasn't for Crawford the team wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

Brunnette is a huge upgrade over Kopecky. Kopecky was a decent player but his career high is 42 points. Brunette has got well over 42 points in 11 different years. You know you can count on 40-50 points every year at least and he finishes around the net.

Brouwer was way too inconsistent. He is replaced by a combination of a few players.

Campbell will be a loss talent wise but they make up for that in depth, grit, etc.

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08-03-2011, 04:58 PM
  #28
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Crawford unproven? lol did you even watch the Hawks last year? If it wasn't for Crawford the team wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

Brunnette is a huge upgrade over Kopecky. Kopecky was a decent player but his career high is 42 points. Brunette has got well over 42 points in 11 different years. You know you can count on 40-50 points every year at least and he finishes around the net.

Brouwer was way too inconsistent. He is replaced by a combination of a few players.

Campbell will be a loss talent wise but they make up for that in depth, grit, etc.

Correction...if it wasn't for the Minnesota Wild they wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Jimmy Howard was pretty great his rookie year as well, just sayin'.

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08-03-2011, 05:09 PM
  #29
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Campbell is a bad defender. They'll be better without him. They have plenty of guys who can play the 2nd PP point and rack up secondary assists.
I don't even particularly like the guy, but you're underrating Campbell. Being overpaid is different from being overrated. Campbell was a big part of their puck movement and offense. They'll miss him in the short-term.

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08-03-2011, 08:15 PM
  #30
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I don't even particularly like the guy, but you're underrating Campbell. Being overpaid is different from being overrated. Campbell was a big part of their puck movement and offense. They'll miss him in the short-term.
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Brian Campbell isn't a bad defensemen, just a bad contract. Before he signed his contract he was the most sought after UFA in the league, virtually every team wanted him. His game hasn't changed.
I said bad defender. Because he's humiliatingly bad at playing defense. You can claim he's not a bad defenseman under the premise that his offense balances out his godawful defense, but there's no denying that the guy is a terrible defensive player.

Every team wanted Ilya Kovalchuk too. Oops. Sometimes everybody's wrong and it's the poor schmucks that put in the high bid that get screwed.

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08-03-2011, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
I said bad defender. Because he's humiliatingly bad at playing defense. You can claim he's not a bad defenseman under the premise that his offense balances out his godawful defense, but there's no denying that the guy is a terrible defensive player.

Every team wanted Ilya Kovalchuk too. Oops. Sometimes everybody's wrong and it's the poor schmucks that put in the high bid that get screwed.
None of the teams were wrong, though. Kovalchuk having a bad half doesn't change the fact that every team still would love him on their team.

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08-03-2011, 10:37 PM
  #32
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I said bad defender. Because he's humiliatingly bad at playing defense.
That's hyperbole. He's a slightly above-average defender at the NHL level. Average at worst. I think his contract has hornswaggled you.

Not for nothing, but Campbell was a +28 last year, and the second highest dman on +/- in Chicago had a 13.

And Campbell only had 27 points.

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08-03-2011, 10:56 PM
  #33
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Yeah. Campbell was Nick Kronwall -- maybe better -- for $7M a year.

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08-03-2011, 11:10 PM
  #34
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Yeah. Campbell was Nick Kronwall -- maybe better -- for $7M a year.
which really isn't even THAT bad when you consider that in this market Kronwall could probably get like 6

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08-03-2011, 11:15 PM
  #35
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It's still too high by at least a million, IMO.
The problem is, of course, that he was making $7.5M two years ago, when the team had to be dismantled and the cap was much lower.

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08-03-2011, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
I said bad defender. Because he's humiliatingly bad at playing defense. You can claim he's not a bad defenseman under the premise that his offense balances out his godawful defense, but there's no denying that the guy is a terrible defensive player.
That's simply not true. The guy may be average defensively, at best, but he's not near as bad as you're making him out.

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08-03-2011, 11:27 PM
  #37
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I always though Campbell was very good, but just not good enought to justify his cap.

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08-03-2011, 11:45 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Have to wonder, does this make Flip a $4.25m player?
Short Answer:No
Long Answer: Nope

Barring significant improvement, I doubt Flip gets more than 4 million unless we are put in a desperate situation, a la Ericsson this year.


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08-04-2011, 08:41 AM
  #39
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None of the teams were wrong, though. Kovalchuk having a bad half doesn't change the fact that every team still would love him on their team.
When you get paid that kind of money, you're not entitled to a "bad half," doesn't matter what sport you're talking about. Kovie got himself a sweetheart deal because the timing worked in his favor, and Jersey is (or should be) kicking themselves for getting suckered; he wasn't - and still isn't - worth it.

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08-04-2011, 08:56 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberFive View Post

When you get paid that kind of money, you're not entitled to a "bad half," doesn't matter what sport you're talking about. Kovie got himself a sweetheart deal because the timing worked in his favor, and Jersey is (or should be) kicking themselves for getting suckered; he wasn't - and still isn't - worth it.
How old is he? And how many goals has he scored? He's worth it.

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08-04-2011, 09:52 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
How old is he? And how many goals has he scored? He's worth it.
Ovechkin: 13-year contract, $125M (currently making $9M/year), scored 100 points the first year of his contract
, has averaged 102 pts/season the 6 years since.

Crosby: 5-year contract extension after his entry-level contract, $43M (currently making $9M/year), scored 100 points the first year of his extension, has averaged 106 pts/season in the 4 years since (was on pace to score 132 points last season until his concussion).

Kovalchuk: 17-year contract, $102M (currently making $6M/year)...scored 27 points his first half-season with the Devils, scored 60 points the first full year. Has averaged 78 pts/season over his 9 years in the NHL (not counting 2004-05 in Kazan).

Just a little bit of disparity there.

No way the Devils are happy. No way. The fans sure aren't. His contract compares to the top two scorers in the league, but his point totals for his first two seasons after his contract combined don't match one season of theirs. Oh, he's come close to 100 points, twice (ironically, the most recent being the year before the contract)...but for that kind of money, you should be performing like that every year, like Crosby and Ovechkin do.

As far as age goes, he's only a couple years older than Ovechkin, so you can't say he's too old or too young to compare to them. Frankly, Kovalchuk's in his prime at this point.

Go ahead, tell me again he's worth it. I'm not seeing it.

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08-04-2011, 10:08 AM
  #42
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He scores goals better than 95% of the league. His entire career has been played in Atlanta up until this past season.

Quick quiz, who's the top 3 in goals scored since the lockout?

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08-04-2011, 11:19 AM
  #43
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He scores goals better than 95% of the league. His entire career has been played in Atlanta up until this past season.

Quick quiz, who's the top 3 in goals scored since the lockout?
The Kovy deal was bad, Heaton. It's not the worst deal in the NHL (heck, it wasn't the worst deal on the Devils while Rolston was still there), but it's not a good one. Dude's going to be making over 10 million bucks a year through age 34.

Smells like someone's making a Yashin pie.

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08-04-2011, 11:20 AM
  #44
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The Kovy deal was bad, Heaton. It's not the worst deal in the NHL (heck, it wasn't the worst deal on the Devils while Rolston was still there), but it's not a good one. Dude's going to be making over 10 million bucks a year through age 34.

Smells like someone's making a Yashin pie.
But I didn't defend his contract, I defended the fact that every team wanted Kovalchuk and that still hasn't changed.

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08-04-2011, 11:26 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
He scores goals better than 95% of the league. His entire career has been played in Atlanta up until this past season.

Quick quiz, who's the top 3 in goals scored since the lockout?
No fair. I suck at pop quizzes.

But in any event, Pittsburgh scraped the cellar floor the first year Crosby came to Pittsburgh. He still managed 100 points that season. Washington was a cellar-dweller the first two seasons with Ovechkin. He still managed 100 points each season. That, to me, takes care of the "Atlanta" argument.

As far as goal-scoring since the lockout, I don't even have to look it up, I'm sure you're going to tell me Kovalchuk is #3. That doesn't change the fact that Jersey paid the money they did to get point production (not just goals) like #1 and #2 (Ovechkin and Crosby, of course), and the numbers on the page show they aren't getting it.
And they have him for fifteen more years.

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08-04-2011, 11:28 AM
  #46
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But I didn't defend his contract, I defended the fact that every team wanted Kovalchuk and that still hasn't changed.
You guys are too quick for me.

I'll give you that, a lot of teams probably would like to have Kovalchuk. But not at that price, nuh-uh.

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08-05-2011, 05:52 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Yeah, I'm not quite sure who this signing sets them up to be much more than they are now. They struggled to make the playoffs last year. This year, Crawford is still unproven, and while they're a hell of a lot scrappier this year than they were last, losing Campbell is a much bigger deal than people are making it out to be, simply because of the salary that was moved as a result. They also lost Brouwer and Kopecky who, while not exactly huge pieces to the puzzle, weren't exactly upgraded with additions like Brunette and Olesz.

Its the Sharks that worry me a lot more with their additions of Handzus, White, and Burns, and with Couture moving up the ranks with lightning speed.
Let me preface this by saying I'm not trolling at all, just always read up on the other division teams and what they've got going on.

I certainly won't argue the Hawks had an off year last year, but taking all reasons/excuses/crap/blah blah out of it, at the end of the day they still wound up with 97 points, which was only two points away from being a 4th seed and only seven back of the division lead. Still snaked their way into the 8th seed with some good fortune, no doubt, but when speaking of the Western Conference last season blanket statements like "struggled to get in" or even "didn't even make the playoffs" for a lot of teams shouldn't be made simply because the standings were so freakishly tight and points needed to get in were so high. When only eight points separate #2 from #8 you've got a pretty unique set of circumstances. They had an inconsistent and "off" season, no question, but still wound up with 97 points.

All that said, I hope for a good battle in this division this season. Not just with Detroit and Chicago, but everyone. Potential to be a really tough division to come out of. Should be very interesting.

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08-05-2011, 08:10 PM
  #48
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But I didn't defend his contract, I defended the fact that every team wanted Kovalchuk and that still hasn't changed.
So when you said "How old is he? And how many goals has he scored? He's worth it." in response to the comment

"When you get paid that kind of money, you're not entitled to a "bad half," doesn't matter what sport you're talking about. Kovie got himself a sweetheart deal because the timing worked in his favor, and Jersey is (or should be) kicking themselves for getting suckered; he wasn't - and still isn't - worth it."...

How exactly are you trying to claim you weren't talking about how much he makes?

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08-08-2011, 03:15 AM
  #49
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When you get paid that kind of money, you're not entitled to a "bad half," doesn't matter what sport you're talking about. Kovie got himself a sweetheart deal because the timing worked in his favor, and Jersey is (or should be) kicking themselves for getting suckered; he wasn't - and still isn't - worth it.
Kovalchuk is a great player ,, The entire Devils team was awful with Maclean as coach

Once he was gone and Lemaire took back over the Devils got there act together and everyone played well

Dont underestimate how a truly awful coach can drag down a talented team ( For example Norv Turner + SD Chargers)

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