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What to do with Weber?

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Old
08-03-2011, 07:40 AM
  #26
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
Yup. PAY THE MAN.

This might be the doom and gloom talking but for me there's 2 ways this could go down:

1. Spend some money to bring in some offense this year. Do what Shea (and really what the entire fan base) wants. Then pay the damn man! Sign him to big money and big years. Everyone is happy.

2. Be typically stingy, bring in some Mike Fisher-esque player (or like three Joel Ward-esque players), lose Weber. Maybe lose Suter and Rinne also. Fan base implosion.
Option #2 is our future More 1-way Trotz guys gotta play defense 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th. Why even bring in Parise or others Trotz will just hate their game and bench them? Ask Wilson, Dumont, Radulov ect

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08-03-2011, 08:18 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Option #2 is our future More 1-way Trotz guys gotta play defense 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th. Why even bring in Parise or others Trotz will just hate their game and bench them? Ask Wilson, Dumont, Radulov ect
This is why I want to trade for Magnus Paajarvi from Edmonton. I would be willing to give up Ellis+ easily. he's a good offensive player, but also is great in the D zone. He doesn't have Hall's pure scoring ability, but Trotz will love him.

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08-03-2011, 10:00 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
these are words.. the facts so far suggest the Preds don't want to spend money on anyone
Dude - the FACTS are that the Preds are $7mil under the floor - they MUST spend that.

The FACTS are they cleared salary space and deadwood, including buying out JPDumont, which not only cost us cash, but was $4mil of that space - if they didn't intend on spending the $$$ on "anyone" they woulda' just kept JP.

The FACTS are both Weber and Poile have said they love each other and want to have a long-term relationship (well, something like that anyway).

Now, the rest is supposition: is it DP? SW? new agents? ownership? cash flow? a grand master plan? the stars not aligned? Shea's dog got treated mean by the other dogs at the dogpark?

whatever - PredsV82 was right - we take the award, tell SW we'll see him in camp and expect him to be an exemplary captain, we'll add or dump as appropriate when the deadline comes, we'll get offers together for RS and PR, and then we'll deal with RFA SW.

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08-03-2011, 10:16 AM
  #29
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I don't think it's guaranteed that Weber doesn't want to stay. I think he's seen very little from ownership/Poile that suggests the team is ready to get aggressive towards building a winner. If they showed to Weber that they are interesting in winning now (showing with assets and $$ and not just lipservice), then I think he'd have signed longer term.

The Preds have one of the best farm systems in the league. But that doesn't help win Cups now. I posted this in another thread, but Weber might have seen those trades for Richards/Carter and realized that Poile isn't the type to pull the trigger on a big deal. And if that's the case, it's difficult to imagine the Preds obtaining an immediate impact player utilizing the farm system and younger players, which is what I think it takes to make a Cup run.

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08-03-2011, 10:27 AM
  #30
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Sounds to me like he's more worried about not keeping Suter and Rinne.

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08-03-2011, 10:32 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
I don't think it's guaranteed that Weber doesn't want to stay. I think he's seen very little from ownership/Poile that suggests the team is ready to get aggressive towards building a winner. If they showed to Weber that they are interesting in winning now (showing with assets and $$ and not just lipservice), then I think he'd have signed longer term.

The Preds have one of the best farm systems in the league. But that doesn't help win Cups now. I posted this in another thread, but Weber might have seen those trades for Richards/Carter and realized that Poile isn't the type to pull the trigger on a big deal. And if that's the case, it's difficult to imagine the Preds obtaining an immediate impact player utilizing the farm system and younger players, which is what I think it takes to make a Cup run.
I really hope Weber isnt that limited in his insight. I think anyone who believes that this team and ownership arent committed to winning is just wrong.

But this team and ownership arent committed to the kind of wild and crazy moves you see teams with loads of cash throwing around. Most of the time teams that swing for the fences like that DONT end up getting the result they planned for.

Look at the teams who are really good year after year... as much as it pains me to say it, look at Detroit... they dont go crazy with trades or UFA signings as a general rule. then look at New Jersey... sold the farm for Kovalchuk... and not only did they suck last year they now appear to be on the verge of losing Parise.

I think Weber is going to chill and see how this season unfolds, and so should we. Poile will add a good piece when he can. And we can have this discussion again next summer

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08-03-2011, 10:36 AM
  #32
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ZP anyone?

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Old
08-03-2011, 10:37 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Look at the teams who are really good year after year... as much as it pains me to say it, look at Detroit... they dont go crazy with trades or UFA signings as a general rule. then look at New Jersey... sold the farm for Kovalchuk... and not only did they suck last year they now appear to be on the verge of losing Parise.
On the flip side, none of the bottom 7 teams in payroll made the playoffs last year. We're currently last and $7.1 under the floor. There has to be at least a medium.

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08-03-2011, 10:40 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
I don't think it's guaranteed that Weber doesn't want to stay. I think he's seen very little from ownership/Poile that suggests the team is ready to get aggressive towards building a winner. If they showed to Weber that they are interesting in winning now (showing with assets and $$ and not just lipservice), then I think he'd have signed longer term.

The Preds have one of the best farm systems in the league. But that doesn't help win Cups now. I posted this in another thread, but Weber might have seen those trades for Richards/Carter and realized that Poile isn't the type to pull the trigger on a big deal. And if that's the case, it's difficult to imagine the Preds obtaining an immediate impact player utilizing the farm system and younger players, which is what I think it takes to make a Cup run.
Wouldn't signing a #1 Norris caliber D-man for long-term contract seem to suggest that you are trying to build winner and willing to spend?

I get that Weber is not happy with the offseason. I'm not either. I would have shot for the moon with Carter, and would have loved to see a guy like Erik Cole, Simon Gagne on the contracts they got.

I know i'm asking for Weber to take a leap of faith here - but it's a chicken or the egg scenario - what shows more of a committment to building a winner than signing your franchise cornerstones to longterm deals?

If Weber signs, it's easier to get the other pieces that you need to build a winner. Lock up Weber, and a guy like Ellis/Blum becomes expendable in the quest for a forward.

With Weber on a short term deal - DP would be nuts to deal the prospects it would take (guys like Blum/Ellis/Josi/Etc) because if Weber bolts, then were out Weber and the prospects.


Unless maybe his idea of building a winner is the Rangers - where the only way to build a winner is to throw around wads of cash every July.

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Old
08-03-2011, 10:42 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
But this team and ownership arent committed to the kind of wild and crazy moves you see teams with loads of cash throwing around. Most of the time teams that swing for the fences like that DONT end up getting the result they planned for.
It's easy to say that, but when you see competing teams add the very talent that you think the Preds should add using pieces that the Preds have at their disposal, it can cause issues. I think those trades showed to Weber that there is talent out there to be had. Rightly or wrongly, the Preds haven't made a move for that type of talent.

The Preds are going from a midpoint team to what appears to be a floor team. Poile can make the rational argument that Carter/Richards either make too much relative to their performance or cost too much to acquire from an asset standpoint, but would you listen if you were deciding where you'd be for the next 5-7 years?

It's easy to project out that the Preds will make moves. I personally think that Poile wants to make a deal, he just hasn't found one he likes. But how much indication has Weber had that the team will push to become a Cup contender? You've got Suter and Rinne as pending UFAs with no clear timeline in place for locking them up and a roster that cannot be asked to realistically compete for the Cup.

I want to believe the Preds will move to a Cup contender. And I think Weber does as well. But if I was in Weber's shoes, I'd want a little more than nice words before I lock my prime up to the Preds.


Last edited by SmokeyClause: 08-03-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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08-03-2011, 10:56 AM
  #36
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I think the biggest issue is probably that Weber doesnt want to sign a long term deal if he doesnt know if management isnt committed to winning. I imagine at times in Nashville, it probably seems like for them to win, they have to do everything harder than the vast majority of teams. Nothings easy for them, their defense and goaltending have to play near perfect for them to compete.

David Poile didnt do much this offseason to pick up any offense or anything of value really. I believe Franson and Weber were pretty good friends, they come from roughly the same place in B.C., and when Weber sees Poile trade his away his best friend who has some good upside for a bag of pucks, it probably doesnt leave a good impression on him.

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Old
08-03-2011, 11:03 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Wouldn't signing a #1 Norris caliber D-man for long-term contract seem to suggest that you are trying to build winner and willing to spend?
Even with signing Weber, it brings the Preds to the cap floor and well below the midpoint. That's not (yet) a ringing endorsement for the "we want to win the Cup" argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
I know i'm asking for Weber to take a leap of faith here - but it's a chicken or the egg scenario - what shows more of a committment to building a winner than signing your franchise cornerstones to longterm deals?

If Weber signs, it's easier to get the other pieces that you need to build a winner. Lock up Weber, and a guy like Ellis/Blum becomes expendable in the quest for a forward.
I agree it makes it easier to sign up Suter and Rinne. But it still creates no guarantees. And considering the team appears to be a floor team heading into training camp, it's not going to provide a lot of confidence to either of those two, regardless of whether Weber signs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Unless maybe his idea of building a winner is the Rangers - where the only way to build a winner is to throw around wads of cash every July.
You'd hope Weber was smarter than that. But I'd argue that many fans think that's the best way to build a winner. And hockey players are often fans as well. So there could be some overlap in that ideology.

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08-03-2011, 11:03 AM
  #38
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Trade him for some offense and give the money to Suter/Rinne.

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08-03-2011, 11:23 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
It's easy to say that, but when you see competing teams add the very talent that you think the Preds should add using pieces that the Preds have at their disposal, it can cause issues. I think those trades showed to Weber that there is talent out there to be had. Rightly or wrongly, the Preds haven't made a move for that type of talent.

The Preds are going from a midpoint team to what appears to be a floor team. Poile can make the rational argument that Carter/Richards either make too much relative to their performance or cost too much to acquire from an asset standpoint, but would you listen if you were deciding where you'd be for the next 5-7 years?

It's easy to project out that the Preds will make moves. I personally think that Poile wants to make a deal, he just hasn't found one he likes. But how much indication has Weber had that the team will push to become a Cup contender? You've got Suter and Rinne as pending UFAs with no clear timeline in place for locking them up and a roster that cannot be asked to realistically compete for the Cup.

I want to believe the Preds will move to a Cup contender. And I think Weber does as well. But if I was in Weber's shoes, I'd want a little more than nice words before I lock my prime up to the Preds.
very good point.

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08-03-2011, 11:41 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
Yup. PAY THE MAN.

This might be the doom and gloom talking but for me there's 2 ways this could go down:

1. Spend some money to bring in some offense this year. Do what Shea (and really what the entire fan base) wants. Then pay the damn man! Sign him to big money and big years. Everyone is happy.

2. Be typically stingy, bring in some Mike Fisher-esque player (or like three Joel Ward-esque players), lose Weber. Maybe lose Suter and Rinne also. Fan base implosion.
OF course! clearly it's that easy!! what were we thinking??






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Old
08-03-2011, 12:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
It's easy to say that, but when you see competing teams add the very talent that you think the Preds should add using pieces that the Preds have at their disposal, it can cause issues. I think those trades showed to Weber that there is talent out there to be had. Rightly or wrongly, the Preds haven't made a move for that type of talent.

The Preds are going from a midpoint team to what appears to be a floor team. Poile can make the rational argument that Carter/Richards either make too much relative to their performance or cost too much to acquire from an asset standpoint, but would you listen if you were deciding where you'd be for the next 5-7 years?

It's easy to project out that the Preds will make moves. I personally think that Poile wants to make a deal, he just hasn't found one he likes. But how much indication has Weber had that the team will push to become a Cup contender? You've got Suter and Rinne as pending UFAs with no clear timeline in place for locking them up and a roster that cannot be asked to realistically compete for the Cup.

I want to believe the Preds will move to a Cup contender. And I think Weber does as well. But if I was in Weber's shoes, I'd want a little more than nice words before I lock my prime up to the Preds.

Agreed. i think weber is going to do exactly that and see what happens this coming season.

I have faith poile will pull something off, but it may be midseason before it happens, and im not looking forward to months of "why havent we fed a virgin to the Weber montser and appeased him yet??"

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Old
08-03-2011, 12:42 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Agreed. i think weber is going to do exactly that and see what happens this coming season.

I have faith poile will pull something off, but it may be midseason before it happens, and im not looking forward to months of "why havent we fed a virgin to the Weber montser and appeased him yet??"
Ok, that just made all of this crap worthwhile.

Well, pretty close anyway.


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Old
08-03-2011, 04:30 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
OF course! clearly it's that easy!! what were we thinking??





Ya know, Shea Weber, I dunno what your problem is with big money and big years. Tell us what DP did to piss you off! Name your terms!

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08-04-2011, 12:15 PM
  #44
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I feel bad for you Predator fans. You guys have been doing an awesome job supporting the team the past 3 or 4 years and it's as if the ownership doesn't care. You guys aren't even at the salary FLOOR and ownership needs to take their franchise player to arbitration? Talk about killing good vibes from last season .

Franchise players rarely go to arbitration and the media is making a huge deal about this...seems like it's just to stir the pot so he leaves next season.

Sorry if this seems like a troll... It just really frustrates me to see a team handle their top asset like this. As a loyal, growing fanbase... YOU GUYS DON'T DESERVE THIS! I just don't see how a long term deal wasn't done unless Shea Weber is already sick of how Nashville operates and just wants out... if that's the case, something needs to be done.

Your franchise drafts extremely well and it seems like you will never see the reward of drafting wel.. You draft and develop these players into solid contributors and then have them walk once they want to earn their market value.

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08-04-2011, 02:20 PM
  #45
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I feel bad for you Predator fans. You guys have been doing an awesome job supporting the team the past 3 or 4 years and it's as if the ownership doesn't care. You guys aren't even at the salary FLOOR and ownership needs to take their franchise player to arbitration? Talk about killing good vibes from last season .

Franchise players rarely go to arbitration and the media is making a huge deal about this...seems like it's just to stir the pot so he leaves next season.

Sorry if this seems like a troll... It just really frustrates me to see a team handle their top asset like this. As a loyal, growing fanbase... YOU GUYS DON'T DESERVE THIS! I just don't see how a long term deal wasn't done unless Shea Weber is already sick of how Nashville operates and just wants out... if that's the case, something needs to be done.

Your franchise drafts extremely well and it seems like you will never see the reward of drafting wel.. You draft and develop these players into solid contributors and then have them walk once they want to earn their market value.
I wouldn't put this on the owners 100%.

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