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So Shea wants a short term deal ?

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08-04-2011, 10:01 AM
  #801
token grinder
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I feel as though David Poile should sit all three down and have 6 briefcases full of cash. 21 million in each case to be exact, and tell them, divy it up however you want, one case per year. If it isn't enough, adios.

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08-04-2011, 10:03 AM
  #802
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
I agree with Glenn. If he wants to leave , fine. And from everything that happened, he probably does. Build around Suter.
Weber gives me the uncomfortable feeling of a"prove it to me" attitude and I frankly don't believe what he says about Nashville. I just hope it doesn't carry over into the locker room
I felt this way until I read the presser comments yesterday.

Aftewards I think the biggest issue is likely that he wants a lot of money up front and poile doesnt have it to give right now, so we got a one year deal. Poile went to arbitration hoping to save as much money as he can, and i suspect Weber understands and isnt going to hold it against him in the long run.

I think Shea would like to stay, all other things being equal, but he also wants to get paid according to his talent, he isnt going to give us a big hometown discount, and he does want to see where this team is heading.

By next summer, I believe Shea will have either see enough that he is comfortable staying and poile will have arranged the finances to be able to accomodate him, or it will be obvious to all that he cant stay long term and will be traded.

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08-04-2011, 10:14 AM
  #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I feel as though David Poile should sit all three down and have 6 briefcases full of cash. 21 million in each case to be exact, and tell them, divy it up however you want, one case per year. If it isn't enough, adios.
Can those 3 go to Arb together? Not those 3 vs team. But those 3 against each other. That way the Arb can decide how they should divy it up? LoL

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08-04-2011, 10:29 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by pekkaslap View Post
Do we have any hope of re-signing Suter at this point? If we try to give him the C and make him the new face of the franchise. He'll think "What, I wasn't good enough the first time around?" I really hope we can keep Ryan, he's more valuable to the team hockey-wise than Weber is regardless.
We have hope of signing all three big contracts before 1 July. There are challenges, but it is doable. The possibility also exists that all three decide they want to test the market.

Weber's statements of wanting to stay coupled with his wanting a short term deal have me questioning his word. It seems he only wants to stay if the Preds make a 2007-esque spending run on name players.

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08-04-2011, 10:35 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by pekkaslap View Post
Then I guess Pekka is gone too? Oh boy, this Weber thing really screws us.
I wouldn't worry about Pekka. Even as good as he is, I don't see him getting a big enough pay day to justify leaving his starting spot here unless the team really lowballs him. The goalie market isn't that good and hasn't been for years. Just look at Vokoun. Granted Rinne is better but I just don't see him leaving for a big payday somewhere else.

I think he is a completely different situation then Suter and Weber. I expect Rinne to be the first one signed in probably a 2-3 year deal around 5 million a year.

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08-04-2011, 10:48 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
We have hope of signing all three big contracts before 1 July. There are challenges, but it is doable. The possibility also exists that all three decide they want to test the market.

Weber's statements of wanting to stay coupled with his wanting a short term deal have me questioning his word. It seems he only wants to stay if the Preds make a 2007-esque spending run on name players.
I think signing Pekka and Suter would be enough to satisfy his fears.

Let me ask this-- would you begrudge Weber, a guy that could pretty much write his own ticket on any team in the league -- for being fearful that he could end up an island on a mediocre team? I said this earlier, and still maintain it -- I think Suter and Weber's long term interest in sticking around depends a lot on each other.

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08-04-2011, 11:10 AM
  #807
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I think signing Pekka and Suter would be enough to satisfy his fears.

Let me ask this-- would you begrudge Weber, a guy that could pretty much write his own ticket on any team in the league -- for being fearful that he could end up an island on a mediocre team? I said this earlier, and still maintain it -- I think Suter and Weber's long term interest in sticking around depends a lot on each other.
The focus on forwards and improving leaves me doubting that keeping Pekka and Suter would be enough.

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08-04-2011, 11:29 AM
  #808
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I think Poile does what he always does... looks for a deal that makes sense, but doesnt go crazy.

he may look a little harder and be willing to give up a bit more this season but I suspect he wants to see how well the rookie defensemen do before trading the prospects.

I also think he will make fair but not stupid offers to Rinne and Suter.

And we will just have to see what happens...

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08-04-2011, 11:30 AM
  #809
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Here is how it's gotta go down for all 3 of them to be kept on the team and the team the be remotely competitive....

They are all going to have to meet and realize that they will have to take a small pay cut to keep all 3 together. It's the way they have to do it up in Detroit. I'm not saying that all of their players get together and make a group decision. But if you want to stick together then you have to be willing to take a little less for the team to afford more talent.

This is what I see them being worth on the free market.

Weber - 8 to 10 a year
Suter - 6 to 7 a year
Rinne - 4.5 to 6 a year

I think they all have to take close to the low end of what they could get on the open market in order to leave this team with enough payroll to be competitive.

That leaves:

Weber - 8
Suter - 6.5
Rinne - 5

Can this team commit 19.5 to 20 mil to 3 players and still have enough money left over to pay a competitive team?

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08-04-2011, 11:32 AM
  #810
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I think the second Parise becomes available, even on a rental basis, Poile goes after it. And hard.

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08-04-2011, 11:35 AM
  #811
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the one kicker in all of this that could totally change everything is an injury, or a bad year by any one of these three.

If Poile offers Pekka a multi year deal for anything north of 5 million per I think he'd be a complete fool not to take it. How many times has a goalie had a bad stretch and been replaced by a hotshot backup? If that happens this year pekka goes from 20 million or so to hoping he can land a job...

where would Tim Thomas be now if he hadnt already signed long term heading into last season?

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08-04-2011, 11:38 AM
  #812
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i'm less concerned about pekka than the other two honestly. There's so much risk on the unpredictable goalie market. Philly was desperate to give Bryz the deal he got, but had they gone another direction, he easily could have wound up in a boat similar to Vokoun or Giguere...or even worse...Nabokov.

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08-04-2011, 12:07 PM
  #813
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Pekka is making 4 million this year. If he has another year anything close to what he had last year he will demand 6+.

I don't see how keeping all 3 is smart on a budget team like ours. Let' just be optimistic for a second and say all three sign for terms of 4+ years. I'm just throwing out estimated numbers of what I think they would get.


Weber- 7.75-8

Suter-6.5-6.75

Rinne- 6.25


Is it really smart to commit nearly 20 million to 3 players for our organization? Yes, with those 3 the team will always be competetive but I highly doubt they would every get over the hump they have been stuck on the last few years. That's just too much money spent on D and goaltending. The money should be spread out on a more balanced approach.

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08-04-2011, 12:11 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Pekka is making 4 million this year. If he has another year anything close to what he had last year he will demand 6+.

I don't see how keeping all 3 is smart on a budget team like ours. Let' just be optimistic for a second and say all three sign for terms of 4+ years. I'm just throwing out estimated numbers of what I think they would get.


Weber- 7.75-8

Suter-6.5-6.75

Rinne- 6.25


Is it really smart to commit nearly 20 million to 3 players for our organization? Yes, with those 3 the team will always be competetive but I highly doubt they would every get over the hump they have been stuck on the last few years. That's just too much money spent on D and goaltending. The money should be spread out on a more balanced approach.
take out goaltending altogether ... we have one of the better goalie coaches in the league, hands down

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08-04-2011, 12:15 PM
  #815
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Furthermore, let's just say all three next season are making the same cash as what there cap hit is. So Weber would be at 7.75, Suter at 6.5 and Rinne and 6.25. All probably optimistic guesses. That would be 20.5 million right there. Add in Leggy,Erat, Fisher and Horny's salaries and you have and you are already sitting at 36.25.

But wait! It gets better! Add in the fact that SK will be due a raise of 2.5 and we will need to re-sign Tootoo, Wilson, Blum, Geoffrion, Cal, Bergfors if he works out.


All of a sudden you can forgot about adding players. It will be hell to ice the one we currently have.

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08-04-2011, 12:37 PM
  #816
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Furthermore, let's just say all three next season are making the same cash as what there cap hit is. So Weber would be at 7.75, Suter at 6.5 and Rinne and 6.25. All probably optimistic guesses. That would be 20.5 million right there. Add in Leggy,Erat, Fisher and Horny's salaries and you have and you are already sitting at 36.25.

But wait! It gets better! Add in the fact that SK will be due a raise of 2.5 and we will need to re-sign Tootoo, Wilson, Blum, Geoffrion, Cal, Bergfors if he works out.


All of a sudden you can forgot about adding players. It will be hell to ice the one we currently have.
We're right at the cap floor now ... and it will go up again next season. Players like Tootoo may or may not be back. The cap hits for Geoffrion and Wilson probably remain stagnant by upping their salaries to cover the potential bonuses they've yet to earn.

It's doable.

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08-04-2011, 01:28 PM
  #817
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I felt this way until I read the presser comments yesterday.

Aftewards I think the biggest issue is likely that he wants a lot of money up front and poile doesnt have it to give right now, so we got a one year deal. Poile went to arbitration hoping to save as much money as he can, and i suspect Weber understands and isnt going to hold it against him in the long run.

I think Shea would like to stay, all other things being equal, but he also wants to get paid according to his talent, he isnt going to give us a big hometown discount, and he does want to see where this team is heading.

By next summer, I believe Shea will have either see enough that he is comfortable staying and poile will have arranged the finances to be able to accomodate him, or it will be obvious to all that he cant stay long term and will be traded.
This to me is the biggest question mark. If he wants to get paid market value we can't keep him. I don't mean that we can't afford him but that we have to get rid of him and find guys that want to be here and build something. It has to be a Detroit like situation for us until we can get past the midpoint of the salary cap. I understand his wanting to win and I can't begrudge him for that but if he wants his payday and for this team to be competitive until revenues increase, it just won't work.

Because of this situation we have a decision as a franchise to make. Do we proceed and try to lock him up long term even though we haven't done anything to help improve our team according to him? Do we say, Shea, we love you but you're gone for a package of decent players to help our depth? Do we trade him all the while knowing that Suter and Rinne want to be here long term? Give them the reigns and let it be their team? If Weber doesn't want to be here, it's going to effect negotiations with Rinne and Suter. If those two don't want to be here, then it effects Weber wanting to stay. We need to decide which two we need the most, trade the other and move forward as a franchise. The longer this goes on the bigger chance I perceive of us losing all three.

The only way we keep all three is if we make a major play for a top 3 forward and trade some of our younger talent. Wilson and Blum would likely be the cornerstone of any deal and while I don't want to see us lose Blum, the kids good, if it keeps the big 3 together in addition to landing a top flight forward, then we need to go ahead and make that deal. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

If I'm the GM I go hard after Rinne and Suter, re-sign both, trade Weber for two forwards that can net 20-25 goals a season each and try to roll three lines that are all decent scorers and pick up a top prospect or 1st round pick in that trade as well. The Raymond/Hodgson and a 1st round pick deals don't sound as bad as they once did to be quite honest. While it's not fair value for a stud defenseman, it does add quality depth to our roster. The only other move I would make is Weber straight up for Ryan or Parise and make sure you have a deal in place with Parise long term.

While none of these seem terribly appealing to me, something has to give but we need to be assured we keep at least 2 of the 3 for long term success. If we keep all 3, great, 2 is probably realistic, 1 is becoming a WTF situation and losing all 3 is an EPIC FAIL and rebuild.

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08-04-2011, 02:06 PM
  #818
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This to me is the biggest question mark. If he wants to get paid market value we can't keep him. I don't mean that we can't afford him but that we have to get rid of him and find guys that want to be here and build something. It has to be a Detroit like situation for us until we can get past the midpoint of the salary cap. I understand his wanting to win and I can't begrudge him for that but if he wants his payday and for this team to be competitive until revenues increase, it just won't work.

Because of this situation we have a decision as a franchise to make. Do we proceed and try to lock him up long term even though we haven't done anything to help improve our team according to him? Do we say, Shea, we love you but you're gone for a package of decent players to help our depth? Do we trade him all the while knowing that Suter and Rinne want to be here long term? Give them the reigns and let it be their team? If Weber doesn't want to be here, it's going to effect negotiations with Rinne and Suter. If those two don't want to be here, then it effects Weber wanting to stay. We need to decide which two we need the most, trade the other and move forward as a franchise. The longer this goes on the bigger chance I perceive of us losing all three.

The only way we keep all three is if we make a major play for a top 3 forward and trade some of our younger talent. Wilson and Blum would likely be the cornerstone of any deal and while I don't want to see us lose Blum, the kids good, if it keeps the big 3 together in addition to landing a top flight forward, then we need to go ahead and make that deal. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

If I'm the GM I go hard after Rinne and Suter, re-sign both, trade Weber for two forwards that can net 20-25 goals a season each and try to roll three lines that are all decent scorers and pick up a top prospect or 1st round pick in that trade as well. The Raymond/Hodgson and a 1st round pick deals don't sound as bad as they once did to be quite honest. While it's not fair value for a stud defenseman, it does add quality depth to our roster. The only other move I would make is Weber straight up for Ryan or Parise and make sure you have a deal in place with Parise long term.

While none of these seem terribly appealing to me, something has to give but we need to be assured we keep at least 2 of the 3 for long term success. If we keep all 3, great, 2 is probably realistic, 1 is becoming a WTF situation and losing all 3 is an EPIC FAIL and rebuild.
I don't get it we need to find players that want to stay here. Weber wants to stay here. The fact that Weber won the arbitration hearing didn't say that he wanted top end money but he got it and no one and I mean no one is going to turn down top end money that includes Suter and Rinne and whoever that is coming up in our system. The ones that complained about Franson being dealt( I understood the deal) is saying that we have proven Superstars for the anchors of our defense that could play for any of the top teams. We have proven that we have the pieces to have a run and that is what small markets have to do and trade their depth for that run and then you play with best of the rest. What makes you think that Parise or Ryan would want to come here and stay if we send out the signal that Nashville can't pay for their own star players.
Why would you think that Suter would want to stay for less money. Eventually Weber and Suter will leave they are that good for the money or unless the Preds pony up for them to have their money and a competitive team. Didn't it enter into anyone's mind that with sucess players want more sucess if the Preds can't compete for sucess then they need to sign Rinne and trade Weber and Suter and start the process all over that is what Edmonton does and we are right there with them. The bottom line is the contracts for Legwand and Erat have come back to haunt them and maybe Poile is concerned that what happened to them will happen to Weber and Suter. Small markets cant afford to miss on long term contracts or they need more owners with deeper pockets..Buffalo got one we don't and they are a small market

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08-04-2011, 02:09 PM
  #819
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Can those 3 go to Arb together? Not those 3 vs team. But those 3 against each other. That way the Arb can decide how they should divy it up? LoL
we wouldnt want them to hurt each others feelings in the process. because as we all know arbitration is always damaging to relationships.

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08-04-2011, 02:25 PM
  #820
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We have hope of signing all three big contracts before 1 July. There are challenges, but it is doable. The possibility also exists that all three decide they want to test the market.

Weber's statements of wanting to stay coupled with his wanting a short term deal have me questioning his word. It seems he only wants to stay if the Preds make a 2007-esque spending run on name players.
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think signing Pekka and Suter would be enough to satisfy his fears.

Let me ask this-- would you begrudge Weber, a guy that could pretty much write his own ticket on any team in the league -- for being fearful that he could end up an island on a mediocre team? I said this earlier, and still maintain it -- I think Suter and Weber's long term interest in sticking around depends a lot on each other.
I think Suter and Rinne play a pretty big role...but it's obvious that Weber would like a star forward in the group. I think Poile is praying that the star is someone who rises out of our talent pool...but in reality, it's probably a $4-6 million forward with some experience and proven scoring ability.

I think the reason why Weber isn't up for the "hometown discount" is that he wants some assurance that he won't be the only "star" on the team after next season. The addition of Mike Fisher is nice, but the team really does need someone who is more offensive minded. Wilson, if he develops, would be a nice fit for that role. But as long as Barry Trotz is our coach, no one is going to get a free pass if they are almost completely defensively irresponsible, especially at the center position.

Adding one more piece might be enough to convince Weber to stay -- the really tricky thing becomes balancing another larger contract with a couple of players who are due substantial raises.

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08-04-2011, 02:34 PM
  #821
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I don't get it we need to find players that want to stay here. Weber wants to stay here. The fact that Weber won the arbitration hearing didn't say that he wanted top end money but he got it and no one and I mean no one is going to turn down top end money that includes Suter and Rinne and whoever that is coming up in our system. The ones that complained about Franson being dealt( I understood the deal) is saying that we have proven Superstars for the anchors of our defense that could play for any of the top teams. We have proven that we have the pieces to have a run and that is what small markets have to do and trade their depth for that run and then you play with best of the rest. What makes you think that Parise or Ryan would want to come here and stay if we send out the signal that Nashville can't pay for their own star players.
Why would you think that Suter would want to stay for less money. Eventually Weber and Suter will leave they are that good for the money or unless the Preds pony up for them to have their money and a competitive team. Didn't it enter into anyone's mind that with sucess players want more sucess if the Preds can't compete for sucess then they need to sign Rinne and trade Weber and Suter and start the process all over that is what Edmonton does and we are right there with them. The bottom line is the contracts for Legwand and Erat have come back to haunt them and maybe Poile is concerned that what happened to them will happen to Weber and Suter. Small markets cant afford to miss on long term contracts or they need more owners with deeper pockets..Buffalo got one we don't and they are a small market
Rosey, what I was saying about Parise or Ryan is contingent upon re-signing Suter and Rinne to long term deals. You don't make that deal unless you are assured Parise is going to stay as well as Suter and Rinne. Ryan is already signed so there's less risk there but you have to make sure you keep at least 2 of the 3 while netting assets for the one that is traded. That's all I'm saying.

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08-04-2011, 02:56 PM
  #822
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Rosey, what I was saying about Parise or Ryan is contingent upon re-signing Suter and Rinne to long term deals. You don't make that deal unless you are assured Parise is going to stay as well as Suter and Rinne. Ryan is already signed so there's less risk there but you have to make sure you keep at least 2 of the 3 while netting assets for the one that is traded. That's all I'm saying.
I'm not trying to argue with you at all but it does ask the question if they don't pay and were making Weber out to be the bad guy and I think that's wrong.Ryan is locked in with his new deal but then if he comes here and sees the same thing as Weber see then it's same ole scenario again but with a different player. Wonder if he or Parise complains about the situation. Both wanted a bigger contract The bottom line we can't pay superstars and we have to play the prospect game and continue to overachieve until we get owners with deeper pockets

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