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Old
08-04-2011, 01:57 PM
  #51
shamrun
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Originally Posted by AK46Awesome View Post
I don't understand it , Andrei demonstrated this year that even when playing with Gomez for 30 + games , he still finished 4th in points and 3rd in goals. He's improved tremendously defensively (trust me I noticed him) , all while being ranked 1st in hits and being shifted between 1st and 4th lines all season.

How about we look at the facts Andrei had his best season in 2007-2008 when he consistently played on a line with teammates that mesh with his style , not when he was dropped down to a defensive/3rd tier scoring line. As for all you statistic Junkies , Kostitsyn's 45 points last year were good for 118th in scoring , lets do the math here so 30 teams x 3 1st line players = top 90 right? So this means and wait for it... Statistically speaking Andrei is 28th among 2nd line players! I just don't get why so many people are ready to put him on the 3rd line due to a few good games with Eller. If anything their chemistry showed that Eller needs more ice time and Gomez needs less ice time.

I'm just befuddled by all the lack of hockey knowledge sometimes rampant around these boards it's almost like "do these people actually watch hockey?" or do they simply regurgitate what they hear and see on TV/internet. I don't know in which world you live in but in mine consistent 20-25 goal scorers do not belong on the 3rd line of an offensively anemic team.
Sorry you feel that way but i do watch hockey and ak is my favorite player on the team(got his jersey and my desktop is of him). The idea of a first line to a third line wont be the case in montreal. We will be riding the hot wave this year. Whoever is feeling it game day will get the opportunities. The idea of a first line to me is a team that can use a certain group of forward 25+ minutes per game. That is clearly a first line. In montreal we wont be seeing this, we will be an offense by comity.

The idea of putting kostisyn with eller is because it worked. JM always talked about duos....well that is another duo that was created. Putting akost on the "third line" allows us to have a balanced attack. Third line does not have to necessarily be a defensive shut down line. As you know Pleck is our best forward at shutting down the opposition. That does not mean he is a third line center. It all comes down to how JM uses the ice time. If andrei gets 9 minutes per game then i am with you and i am calling this pure bs. But i am quite sure he will be getting his 16 "quality" minutes per game. JM is not an idiot he knows what andrei brings to the team better then everyone else here.

Teams will have a hard time matching up to us.

man cant the season start already.......

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08-04-2011, 02:04 PM
  #52
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For me it's all about envisioning who is going to perform come playoff time. Unless AK continues to improve like he did last year, we cannot win a Cup with him anywhere above the third line. It's just hard for me to believe. He just doesn't have the urgency in his game to play against top tier shutdown guys.

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08-04-2011, 02:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
For me it's all about envisioning who is going to perform come playoff time. Unless AK continues to improve like he did last year, we cannot win a Cup with him anywhere above the third line. It's just hard for me to believe. He just doesn't have the urgency in his game to play against top tier shutdown guys.
So we make him play against lower-tier shutdown guys.

There, problem solved

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08-04-2011, 02:14 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
So we make him play against lower-tier shutdown guys.

There, problem solved
Yeah, possibly. Eller seems like the perfect guy to get him the puck. If they had another guy to work the boards for them, it could be one of the best third lines in hockey since our top two d-pairings have the potential to provide lots of offensive support. I doubt Jacques wants a third line that has a full-on green light tho.

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08-04-2011, 02:25 PM
  #55
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Yeah, possibly. Eller seems like the perfect guy to get him the puck. If they had another guy to work the boards for them, it could be one of the best third lines in hockey since our top two d-pairings have the potential to provide lots of offensive support. I doubt Jacques wants a third line that has a full-on green light tho.
Nobody on Jacques's team has a full-on green light.

But please, stop with the 'we cannot win a Cup with him anywhere above the 3rd line'. There are under-producing top 6 players in pretty much every Cup winning team. Lucic was a pretty damn average if not downright bad top 6 player in 2011 for Boston. They also had Mark Recchi in their top 6. They compensated with 3rd line production and goal-tending.

This is what Montreal will have to do regardless if they want to win a Cup the way the team is built, we will have to compensate with goaltending, 3rd line/D production for offense. AK as a top 6 player (as long as he's your 5-6th, you can't RELY on him for the offense) is fine. But I do believe that as a 3rd line player with Eller, it's actually even better.

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08-04-2011, 02:32 PM
  #56
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LOL Andrei hate much?
I usually despise the Andrei haters too but in the context of what he was responding to it made perfect sense.

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08-04-2011, 02:40 PM
  #57
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I'm still mad at the Sergei trade.

We would have a perfect third line with ultra chemistry with Kostitsyn Eller Kostitsyn

Oh Dear God ...NO!

Poor Eller's career would be ruined before it began by one brother that has a major attitude problem and the other one with little hockey IQ.

You figure out which one goes with what issue.

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08-04-2011, 02:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Patccmoi View Post
Nobody on Jacques's team has a full-on green light.

But please, stop with the 'we cannot win a Cup with him anywhere above the 3rd line'. There are under-producing top 6 players in pretty much every Cup winning team. Lucic was a pretty damn average if not downright bad top 6 player in 2011 for Boston. They also had Mark Recchi in their top 6. They compensated with 3rd line production and goal-tending.

This is what Montreal will have to do regardless if they want to win a Cup the way the team is built, we will have to compensate with goaltending, 3rd line/D production for offense. AK as a top 6 player (as long as he's your 5-6th, you can't RELY on him for the offense) is fine. But I do believe that as a 3rd line player with Eller, it's actually even better.
Well, you don't know either. He definitely has components of elite skill. He has a rocket shot (but no footwork). He has size and likes to hit, but loses almost every offensive zone puck battle. He takes dumb penalties.

I guess you are right, he could play the second line. But that's assuming we have true first line production, or something else chipping in (third line). Also, we SHOULD get some good production from D and PP if Markov stays in one piece.

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08-04-2011, 02:59 PM
  #59
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I usually despise the Andrei haters too but in the context of what he was responding to it made perfect sense.
Didn't realize he put Andrei in Power forward category.

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08-04-2011, 03:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by AK46Awesome View Post
Didn't realize he put Andrei in Power forward category.
I didn't, the guy I quoted did...

Which, when you look at our mix, gives a fairly good balance:

3 power(ish) forwards
3 puck-carrier centers
3 small and opportunistic and clever wingers

My goodness, it almost look like it was done on purpose!

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08-04-2011, 03:31 PM
  #61
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I thought it was going to be an article about Gomez on the 3rd line. Altough putting numbers on lines might be useless this year but if all goes well I wouldn't mind seing AK-Eller-Gio as a "2nd line".

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08-04-2011, 03:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by AK46Awesome View Post
I don't understand it , Andrei demonstrated this year that even when playing with Gomez for 30 + games , he still finished 4th in points and 3rd in goals. He's improved tremendously defensively (trust me I noticed him) , all while being ranked 1st in hits and being shifted between 1st and 4th lines all season.

How about we look at the facts Andrei had his best season in 2007-2008 when he consistently played on a line with teammates that mesh with his style , not when he was dropped down to a defensive/3rd tier scoring line. As for all you statistic Junkies , Kostitsyn's 45 points last year were good for 118th in scoring , lets do the math here so 30 teams x 3 1st line players = top 90 right? So this means and wait for it... Statistically speaking Andrei is 28th among 2nd line players! I just don't get why so many people are ready to put him on the 3rd line due to a few good games with Eller. If anything their chemistry showed that Eller needs more ice time and Gomez needs less ice time.

I'm just befuddled by all the lack of hockey knowledge sometimes rampant around these boards it's almost like "d o these people actually watch hockey?" or do they simply regurgitate what they hear and see on TV/internet. I don't know in which world you live in but in mine consistent 20-25 goal scorers do not belong on the 3rd line of an offensively anemic team.
I have always defended AK as you may know already but I wouldn't mind see him play on the "3rd" line with Eller. I rather see him play 14 min with Eller than playing 16 min on the 2nd line with Gomez.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AK play a few games with Plekanec at one point next season.

I just hope JM has learned his lesson last season and never puts AK with Gomez ever again.

Anyway, as for now, the lines are pure speculation. We never know what's gonna happen after camp.

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08-04-2011, 04:12 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Oh Dear God ...NO!

Poor Eller's career would be ruined before it began by one brother that has a major attitude problem and the other one with little hockey IQ.

You figure out which one goes with what issue.
Yeah, cuz andrei did so poorly with eller before, on a line completed by moen of all people. Sergei - Eller - Andrei would have been a sick third line.

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08-04-2011, 05:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by AK46Awesome View Post
Didn't realize he put Andrei in Power forward category.
I said he was a "powerful winger."

Don't see anything wrong with that statement. And regardless, the whole process of the appointment of whether a forward is a power forward is completely subjective at best.

EDIT: I just realized the flow of the discussion, you weren't even arguing that point. Carry on.


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08-04-2011, 08:20 PM
  #65
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I'm so excited for the top9 approach of the coming year. I think Eller and AK with thrive with one another, and the great thing is this depth will free ONE of lines up at any given time from shutdown lines. I think we're going to be a hard team to play against.

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08-04-2011, 08:32 PM
  #66
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I think we should be a little hesitant in stating in definitive terms that Andrei will be alongside Eller this season. Who really knows how the lines will come about, at the start, or during the season.

We also have no idea who Cole will form good chemistry with. I could see him as a good line mate beside Gomez and Gionta for example, and Martin might like the experience of that line.

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08-04-2011, 08:37 PM
  #67
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Someone gotta a crystal ball? You can't predict lines until after training camp & a few exhibition games. Plus we will have injuries, everyone does. Even Arpon knows that, but I suppose you gotta print something.

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08-04-2011, 08:55 PM
  #68
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Someone gotta a crystal ball? You can't predict lines until after training camp & a few exhibition games. Plus we will have injuries, everyone does. Even Arpon knows that, but I suppose you gotta print something.
Considering the depth chart, it's either Pac or AK who goes with Eller, so IMO the odds are high enough to speculate on AK playing with Eller.

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08-04-2011, 09:01 PM
  #69
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Considering the depth chart, it's either Pac or AK who goes with Eller, so IMO the odds are high enough to speculate on AK playing with Eller.
Maybe, but we still don't know? Pax may need time, Savage never regained his skills. Pax is a warrior, but we can't just guess.

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08-04-2011, 11:18 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I think we should be a little hesitant in stating in definitive terms that Andrei will be alongside Eller this season. Who really knows how the lines will come about, at the start, or during the season.

We also have no idea who Cole will form good chemistry with. I could see him as a good line mate beside Gomez and Gionta for example, and Martin might like the experience of that line.
The good thing is that if Cole does end up with Gomez/Gio, then I can see them click well, maybe even more so than with Plek/Cammy.
If that's the case, then you know Plek-Cammy-AK can work pretty well together as well. This would mean sending MaxPac on the 3rd line. Him and DD have had solid chemistry together in the AHL last year, put them next to Eller (a stronger/bulkier one than last year) that was slowly starting to dominate his weaker opponents, and I could see them rip it up as well.
Put MaxPac with Plek/Cammy and AK with Eller/DD, and I could see these lines dominate as much as the previous combos.
The only question mark would be if AK was placed with Gomez, seeing how it was a huge failure last year, but they were also completed most of the time by a role player. If Gionta is the one completing them, I could see some success, although maybe not as much as other combinations.

That's what's so great about our roster next season up front. Yea, we don't have a dominant superstar, but we seem to have a well balanced group of top9 players that will compliment each other perfectly.

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08-04-2011, 11:24 PM
  #71
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Maybe, but we still don't know? Pax may need time, Savage never regained his skills. Pax is a warrior, but we can't just guess.
Brian Savage became injury prone. His goal scoring pace was always pretty good. It was never under 24G over a full year with us.

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08-04-2011, 11:31 PM
  #72
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Brian Savage became injury prone. His goal scoring pace was always pretty good. It was never under 24G over a full year with us.
#49 Savage was one of my favs. The injury was awful, that's why I'm skeptical to pencil PAX in right away. I think Brian lost his edge & I hope Cole(another bad injury) can help Pax thru it.

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Old
08-05-2011, 02:28 AM
  #73
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#49 Savage was one of my favs. The injury was awful, that's why I'm skeptical to pencil PAX in right away. I think Brian lost his edge & I hope Cole(another bad injury) can help Pax thru it.
I miss those days , Mr.October!
Shayne Corson , Marius Czerkawski , Turner Stevenson , that Laflamme guy , Gino "beautiful smile" odjick...

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08-05-2011, 03:41 AM
  #74
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I despised Odjick. Probably the only player that I've been ashamed of as a Montreal Canadien, even as a hockey player.

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08-05-2011, 09:47 AM
  #75
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I despised Odjick. Probably the only player that I've been ashamed of as a Montreal Canadien, even as a hockey player.
Popovich was mine. Me and my father hated that guy.

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