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Shea Weber / arbitrator discussion (All Weber talk thread)

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08-04-2011, 03:20 PM
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Seth Lake
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Shea Weber / arbitrator discussion (All Weber talk thread)

Carry on, but let's try to keep this to one big thread to save everyone time and keep the discussions on-track.

Thanks!

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08-04-2011, 03:40 PM
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I Will Son
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Thanks for making this, now i can follow everything. So after Weber saying that he wants to be playing with Suter and Rinne for a long time do you think Poile will actually try to sign them during the season or before? I know he said he will talk to them when they get back in town but the last time I remember an extension during the season was Goc.

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08-04-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
Thanks for making this, now i can follow everything. So after Weber saying that he wants to be playing with Suter and Rinne for a long time do you think Poile will actually try to sign them during the season or before? I know he said he will talk to them when they get back in town but the last time I remember an extension during the season was Goc.
But we are entering new territory in all of this so there is no precedent for it.

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08-04-2011, 03:46 PM
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its been said many times before, but its going to be a long season in anticipation of signing all three before the season ends....

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08-04-2011, 03:48 PM
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I see you read the suggestion box. Thank you very much

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08-04-2011, 04:24 PM
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Shea Weber- is he Lebron James or is he Mark Messier?

Lebron wanted out because he wanted to play for a winner.
Mess assumed he could make any team he played for a winner.

Is Weber going to leave if he can't win or is he going to force Poile and the owners to pony up and do what it takes?

Yesterday, I was thinking Lebron. Today, I'm thinking he may well go down as the greatest hockey leader of all times by literally forcing a reluctant GM and reluctant ownership group to give him the troops to storm the gates of hell.

I think this will force the signing of Weber, Suter, Rinne and a $6.5M+ forward by this time next year. I think Parise (8-9.5), Radulov (5, however structured), Weber (8), Suter (6.5-7.5) and Rinne (5-5.5) could make up around $35M of our $60M payroll and we will have to backfill with a few cheap players in place of SK and perhaps Tootoo, CalO, Lindback or even Wilson.

If only Poile could create that kind of vision for our top players.... let's hope our top player is creating that kind of vision for the rest of us.

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08-04-2011, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
If only Poile could create that kind of vision for our top players.... let's hope our top player is creating that kind of vision for the rest of us.
In a brazen attempt to derail the consolidated Weber thread, if Poile cannot sign Weber long-term and, as a result, Suter/Rinne leave for pennies on the dollar either via deadline deals or straight to UFA, does Poile get fired?

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08-04-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Shea Weber- is he Lebron James or is he Mark Messier?

Lebron wanted out because he wanted to play for a winner.
Mess assumed he could make any team he played for a winner.

Is Weber going to leave if he can't win or is he going to force Poile and the owners to pony up and do what it takes?

Yesterday, I was thinking Lebron. Today, I'm thinking he may well go down as the greatest hockey leader of all times by literally forcing a reluctant GM and reluctant ownership group to give him the troops to storm the gates of hell.

I think this will force the signing of Weber, Suter, Rinne and a $6.5M+ forward by this time next year. I think Parise (8-9.5), Radulov (5, however structured), Weber (8), Suter (6.5-7.5) and Rinne (5-5.5) could make up around $35M of our $60M payroll and we will have to backfill with a few cheap players in place of SK and perhaps Tootoo, CalO, Lindback or even Wilson.

If only Poile could create that kind of vision for our top players.... let's hope our top player is creating that kind of vision for the rest of us.
Any vision that has Parise included with all of the Big Three is a bit flawed. New Jersey wants to win too, y'know.

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08-04-2011, 04:35 PM
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So, if you're the GM, do you approach Suter or Rinne first and why?

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08-04-2011, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
In a brazen attempt to derail the consolidated Weber thread, if Poile cannot sign Weber long-term and, as a result, Suter/Rinne leave for pennies on the dollar either via deadline deals or straight to UFA, does Poile get fired?
I think he'd at the very least be on the hot seat.

Honestly, I don't dread that possible outcome as much as everyone else here... but that's probably because I still have regular torturous daydreams of Ryan Suter in union blue, and that's probably the only (contrived, unlikely, ludicrous) scenario in which it could happen.

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08-04-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I think he'd at the very least be on the hot seat.

Honestly, I don't dread that possible outcome as much as everyone else here... but that's probably because I still have regular torturous daydreams of Ryan Suter in union blue, and that's probably the only (contrived, unlikely, ludicrous) scenario in which it could happen.
I asked my own question, and in my usual cowardice, I didn't give my opinion. So here goes: I think he goes beyond the hotseat. I think he gets let go. And it would be difficult to support him as it would be one of the worst displays of asset management that the NHL has ever seen.

That turn of events would be a complete reset of the team. And what available GM do you want building up your franchise? Interestly, I'd argue Poile above all else. It's not the initial construction that he seems to struggle with. It's that next step into the elite tier.

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08-04-2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
In a brazen attempt to derail the consolidated Weber thread, if Poile cannot sign Weber long-term and, as a result, Suter/Rinne leave for pennies on the dollar either via deadline deals or straight to UFA, does Poile get fired?
Yes, it'd be very likely because ownership wants to contend and if Poile were to take actions or inaction(s) that lead to the team going from being at the start of a window of opportunity to nailing the window shut and boarding it over to undergo another rebuild the owners would not be pleased at all...

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08-04-2011, 04:43 PM
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Yes, it'd be very likely because ownership wants to contend and if Poile were to take actions or inaction(s) that lead to the team going from being at the start of a window of opportunity to nailing the window shut and boarding it over to undergo another rebuild the owners would not be pleased at all...
To add, the ownership group has been surrounding themselves with hockey people for a while now, which means they are less reliant on Poile being their go-to hockey guy. He still is, of course, but I think they are in a better position now to find a new GM than they have ever been.

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08-04-2011, 04:46 PM
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If I'm the GM, I approach Rinne first. Goalies that level of elite are hard to find, although Nashville seems to breed them... I don't know if Lindback is ready to step into that #1 role yet.

I don't realy blame Poile for not going after a UFA forward this offseason.... The pickins were kinda slim. Offseason 2012 sees Semin, Parise, Penner, Boyes, Umberger, Stoll, grabovski and Andrei Kostitsyn all become UFAs... Grab one of those guys (Like Penner, Boyes or Kostitsyn), resign Suter and Rinne, then show Weber the payday.

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08-04-2011, 04:50 PM
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FYI, I just started a thread to discuss whether or not Poile would be fired if Weber, Suter, and Rinne are all gone by 2012-2013 if you all want to move that part of the discussion there.

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08-04-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinOneel View Post
If I'm the GM, I approach Rinne first. Goalies that level of elite are hard to find, although Nashville seems to breed them... I don't know if Lindback is ready to step into that #1 role yet.

I don't realy blame Poile for not going after a UFA forward this offseason.... The pickins were kinda slim. Offseason 2012 sees Semin, Parise, Penner, Boyes, Umberger, Stoll, grabovski and Andrei Kostitsyn all become UFAs... Grab one of those guys (Like Penner, Boyes or Kostitsyn), resign Suter and Rinne, then show Weber the payday.
For the record, we're pretty certain Howson plans to extend Umberger before the summer's out. But now I'm arguably being nitpicky.

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08-04-2011, 05:39 PM
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So, if you're the GM, do you approach Suter or Rinne first and why?
Rinne, our motto has been build from the net out, a Vezina candidate is a perfect building block.

Honestly, I'm not THAT worried about all of this, if we can retain atleast 2/3 of the "big three" and get a great return on the one player that leaves I'll be content.

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08-04-2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
So, if you're the GM, do you approach Suter or Rinne first and why?
Rinne. However that shouldn't diminish Suter's value to this team. Suter is, in my mind, just as good as Weber but obviously at different aspects of the game. Rinne has saved our butt time and time again to point where he would have won the vezina trophy if it were not for crazy timmy thomas. Rinne is our rock, gotta get him locked up first.

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08-04-2011, 06:48 PM
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So, if you're the GM, do you approach Suter or Rinne first and why?
Rinne because I've seen some crappy Rangers teams make the playoffs because Lundqvist was doing cartwheels and handstands in the net. An elite goalie gives anybody a chance to compete.

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08-04-2011, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
So, if you're the GM, do you approach Suter or Rinne first and why?
Rinne. He should be an easier sign, the goalie market isn't all that great.

Next, like others have said, if you have a great goaltender, you have a chance in every game you play.

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08-04-2011, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
Rinne, our motto has been build from the net out, a Vezina candidate is a perfect building block.

Honestly, I'm not THAT worried about all of this, if we can retain atleast 2/3 of the "big three" and get a great return on the one player that leaves I'll be content.
I agree with this.

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08-04-2011, 08:28 PM
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Any vision that has Parise included with all of the Big Three is a bit flawed. New Jersey wants to win too, y'know.
Not flawed at all. Just not easy. Only a select few teams will have the ability/need/desire to sign him at 8+. I just want us to be there trying with Rinne/Weber/Suter/Rads as teammates. Like the Richards saga this year, several losers that tried... we didn't try.

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08-04-2011, 08:49 PM
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Maybe this doesn't belong in the consolidated Weber thread, but...I think we've all agreed that re-upping Suter and Rinne, as well as picking up a top-6 forward, is what it will take to get Weber to stay. I think a lot of people have also set their sights on Parise as being that top-6 forward. The question is, how do we get him?

It seems that getting Parise via trade would require giving up Weber or Suter in return. Obviously picking him up as a UFA would be ideal. He's Suter's BFF, plus I don't see why he wouldn't want to come play for a team with a couple stud d-men and an awesome goalie. But will we even get that opportunity? Will NJ really allow Parise to get to UFA and lose him for nothing??

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08-04-2011, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinOneel View Post
If I'm the GM, I approach Rinne first. Goalies that level of elite are hard to find, although Nashville seems to breed them... I don't know if Lindback is ready to step into that #1 role yet.
I think I would approach Suter first.

Rinne is a great goalie, but you have to wonder how much of his play is a product of Weber and Suter. Pretty much every goalie since the lockout has looked good behind that defense (Vokoun, Mason, Ellis, now Rinne and probably Lindback next).

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08-04-2011, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Not flawed at all. Just not easy. Only a select few teams will have the ability/need/desire to sign him at 8+. I just want us to be there trying with Rinne/Weber/Suter/Rads as teammates. Like the Richards saga this year, several losers that tried... we didn't try.
And the most likely one of those will be New Jersey.

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