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Overeem cut by Strikeforce

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Old
08-04-2011, 02:26 PM
  #26
m9
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Fedor was cut today too.

Strikeforce is quickly getting finished off.

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08-04-2011, 02:38 PM
  #27
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3 straight losses, overpaid and mentally unstable management. This is less surprising than Overeem

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08-04-2011, 02:42 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
This reeks of Dana White. This sport is turning in to the WWE. I want pride back. Can't ****ing stand Zuffa.
Yeah the UFC is so corrupt, too bad that organization that was literally a front for the Yakuza isn't still around.

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08-04-2011, 02:52 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
This reeks of Dana White. This sport is turning in to the WWE. I want pride back. Can't ****ing stand Zuffa.
If you're mad about Alistair, fair enough. If you're mad because they cut a couple HW's who weren't UFC quality anyway, then this is a bit much.

No surprise that its just anti-UFC garbage spewing out though. Do you post in here other than bashing the UFC?

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08-04-2011, 03:02 PM
  #30
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By the way, here's some more info about what the issue is here: http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.u...le.php?id=7403

Quote:
The crux of the problem is apparently the nature of the contracts that the fighters had with Strikeforce. They supposedly contain provisions for purse monies to be paid directly to Golden Glory instead of directly to the fighter, the latter being standard practice.

One source also says that the Strikeforce contracts had agreements that Golden Glory management would have their flights and accommodation paid for whenever their fighters appeared at a Strikeforce show. The contracts between Strikeforce and M-1 are said to be similar.

Zuffa does not pay fighter money directly to managers. As managers are the employees of fighters and not the other way round, monies are paid to the fighter and it is then up to the fighter to pay the manager his commission. The only monies that are usually paid directly to a manager are things like sponsorship fees.

Golden Glory likes to have fight purses paid directly to the company and then the fighters are passed on their percentage. This has worked for them in Europe and Japan but it is not a model the UFC likes, not least because it leaves them open to potential legal actions should something go awry. It could also be construed as a money-laundering or tax-evading measure.

Having inherited the contracts that Strikeforce had with Golden Glory, Zuffa was willing to uphold them only as long as they had to. Once release clauses were activated - Alistair had one fight left on his contract, the other three were coming off losses - they were exercised and the fighters were cut.
It's a thorny issue. The way that Golden Glory and M-1 want to do things seems fraught with the potential for abuse -- just look at the way some boxing managers have used their control to totally milk their fighters. On the other hand I'm not a fan of the way Dana seems to want to cut managers out of the picture altogether sometimes (e.g. trying to get guys to agree to future fights in the locker room half an hour after they've just fought). There should be a happy medium in there somewhere and as the sport grows hopefully a more formalized promotion-manager-fighter structure can be set up.

I do feel bad for Coenan, she's fought her heart out in pretty much all of her Strikeforce fights and seems like a really nice and honest person to boot. Regardless of what people think of the state of women's MMA, she deserves better.

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08-04-2011, 03:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by colonel_korn View Post
By the way, here's some more info about what the issue is here: http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.u...le.php?id=7403
This is why people should wait before freaking out when the UFC does something. This is a rational explanation, and i'm glad the UFC basically does the exact opposite of what boxing promoters would do at every opportunity.

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08-04-2011, 03:20 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove View Post
This is why people should wait before freaking out when the UFC does something. This is a rational explanation, and i'm glad the UFC basically does the exact opposite of what boxing promoters would do at every opportunity.
Yeah, all things considered I've got no problem with the moves now.. not that I really did before. Again, hard to care too much with low-impact fighters.

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08-04-2011, 04:59 PM
  #33
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Dana White using the opportunity to "prove" that Strikeforce was in every way inferior to the UFC by cutting their headline fighters and backhandedly calling them "not UFC material", is incredibly typical of White taking his personal vendettas directly to the pocketbooks of his fighters. The barbs he threw Fedor's way were in no way fair for a fighter you just cut and a guy that may still have fights remaining in his career. He either wants to sign him to a low scale UFC fight and have him get abused against a fighter he has no business being in the cage with at this point in his career or he wants him to grind out the remainder of his days in low rent productions to further tarnish an outstanding career.

Dana White is mad, as usual, that a fighter told him to pound sand and continually refused to fight for his organization when he was potentially the best in the world at the time. Fedor never gave Dana his "superfight", so Dana takes the opportunity to kick him further when he's down. Sounds about right.

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08-04-2011, 05:24 PM
  #34
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I don't agree with all the stuff Dana says about Fedor but I don't see how he is "mad".

Fedor = Done
M-1 = Done
UFC = Still #1

He has no reason to be mad about Fedor.

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08-04-2011, 05:44 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I don't agree with all the stuff Dana says about Fedor but I don't see how he is "mad".

Fedor = Done
M-1 = Done
UFC = Still #1

He has no reason to be mad about Fedor.
That is the beauty of Dana's petty beef with these fly by night organization and promotions. They're nonsensical based upon the success of the UFC, but they're entirely ego driven. He wants everybody to know he was "right" in retrospect regardless of its relevancy today. In the case of Fedor, I think that approach was unfair. Comparing him to Kimbo Slice was just a slap in the face and it was entirely intentional.

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08-04-2011, 05:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
That is the beauty of Dana's petty beef with these fly by night organization and promotions. They're nonsensical based upon the success of the UFC, but they're entirely ego driven. He wants everybody to know he was "right" in retrospect regardless of its relevancy today. In the case of Fedor, I think that approach was unfair. Comparing him to Kimbo Slice was just a slap in the face and it was entirely intentional.
He did what? Are you serious?

I thought you were just talking about the normal stuff Dana says. "Fedor isn't a top 10 fighter", "he wouldn't beat the top UFC HWs", etc.

Dana talks a lot of **** but that's ridiculous even for him.

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08-04-2011, 05:50 PM
  #37
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He didn't really compare him to Kimbo Slice, necessarily.

http://www.mmabay.co.uk/2011/07/28/d...lice%E2%80%9D/

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08-04-2011, 05:57 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
He didn't really compare him to Kimbo Slice, necessarily.

http://www.mmabay.co.uk/2011/07/28/d...lice%E2%80%9D/
Those were comments made prior to the most recent ones. This is the quote I was talking about:

Quote:
"You guys thought he was the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world. White added telling ESPN. I said he was overrated for years.

"I don't want to say anything bad about this guy because I like him, but it's like having your promotion carried by Kimbo Slice. This guy is going to carry your promotion? No.

"What you do is put the best fighters in the world against the best fighters and you see who wins."
http://mma30.com/2011/08/fedor-cut-from-strikeforce/

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08-04-2011, 06:05 PM
  #39
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I don't think there's a whole lot wrong with that statement. If somebody with three straight losses to the fighters he's lost to is supposed to carry your promotion on its back then you've got a problem. I like Fedor by the way, but a barely top ten fighter at heavy is, um, not a bread winner for Strikeforce by any stretch.

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08-04-2011, 06:08 PM
  #40
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He compared Kimbo to Fedor from a promotional POV - ie, you can't sustain a company on one guy in this business, because he could lose at any moment. He wasn't comparing their fighting skill.

I agree with the premise and that statement, btw. As usual, its a case of Dana White having a good point but he just delivers it in a way that makes it sound dumb.

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08-04-2011, 06:30 PM
  #41
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My point was that White is now speaking with the benefit of hindsight in regards to "carrying a promotion", which is exactly what Fedor was doing with promotions prior to his last two losses. The buzz that Fedor vs. Rogers and Fedor vs. Werdum created made them two of the most hyped fights of the year and they took place outside the UFC. At the time of those two fights, Fedor WAS effectively carrying the organization just as he had done with Affliction and keeping legitimacy in Pride. Just because he got old and bashed doesn't discount the value he previously had to the organization. Take Tito Ortiz and Forrest Griffin for example. Those two guys helped put MMA on the map in the United States but for some other promotion to come out now and say, "See, I knew they weren't capable of carrying a promotion", would be revisionist history. At a time, they both were the faces of the UFC but because they aren't anymore you can trash them? It doesn't hold up to my logic.

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08-04-2011, 06:48 PM
  #42
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But you're missing his point. The point is you can't have ONE guy carry your promotion, because it won't last forever. You need to create depth and new fighters that people are interested in. The failures of Kimbo/ProElite and Fedor/Affliction are examples of this. The UFC, Pride are the opposite.

Dana never criticized Strikeforce as much because they were built more like the UFC or Pride. They have actually developed their brand properly, up until the UFC bought them.

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08-05-2011, 01:43 AM
  #43
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Interesting, Coenan just tweeted a photo of a cheque made out directly to her that would seem to contradict the claim that GG insist they be paid intead...

http://twitpic.com/6113vq

Curioser and curioser...

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08-05-2011, 01:49 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by colonel_korn View Post
Interesting, Coenan just tweeted a photo of a cheque made out directly to her that would seem to contradict the claim that GG insist they be paid intead...

http://twitpic.com/6113vq

Curioser and curioser...
Didn't Dana say he refused to do what they asked and paid the fighters directly? Or was he only talking about Einemo?

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08-05-2011, 02:00 AM
  #45
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I don't think he said that, unless something was lost in translation.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/08/0...lden-glory-fig
Quote:
"This is actually a pretty simple explanation," he said. "If you look back throughout history, we haven't had any Golden Glory guys fight with us since Semmy Schilt, right? And the reason is we have very different business practices. It's tough to do business with them. The bottom line is the way they do business is, you have to pay them, not the fighters. We don't work that way. It's not the way we do business. It's not how it works in the United States with the athletic commissions. You don't pay the managers and the managers pay the fighters. You pay the fighters and the fighters pay the managers."

White went on to say that while they had previously honored existing Strikeforce deals, it became apparent Golden Glory management wouldn't change their long-held practices.

"They won't do it," he said. "We have to pay them, not the fighters."


While White said when they brought in Einemo, Golden Glory gave in to Zuffa's request, it was apparently a onetime only change. Asked if for example, Zuffa would bring back Coenen if they once again played by Zuffa's rules, White shook his head.

"They don't and they won't," he said.
e: although Dana is now saying on Twitter that they did refuse to pay GG directly in Coenan's case as well.


Last edited by colonel_korn: 08-05-2011 at 02:07 AM.
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08-05-2011, 09:45 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by colonel_korn View Post
Interesting, Coenan just tweeted a photo of a cheque made out directly to her that would seem to contradict the claim that GG insist they be paid intead...

http://twitpic.com/6113vq

Curioser and curioser...
Dana said that GG let them pay the fighters directly one time, but wouldn't do it again in the future.

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08-05-2011, 11:26 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
This reeks of Dana White. This sport is turning in to the WWE. I want pride back. Can't ****ing stand Zuffa.
Dana White has been turning it into pro wrestling for a while.

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