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Del Zotto learning to fight

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Old
08-05-2011, 04:55 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Maybe he should learn how to score first
Handsome young athlete in New York, don't think he'll have too much trouble with that.

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08-05-2011, 04:58 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post


If MDZ can become a "two-way" player (i fully expect his offense to always be better, but at least adequate D) with grit, that just makes our d-corp so much better.
I would rather he learn how to play that 2 on 2 so the opposing player isn't in front of the net all alone...but that's just me.

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08-05-2011, 04:59 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Handsome young athlete in New York, don't think he'll have too much trouble with that.
I was thinking more along the lines of scoring on big masked men, rather than fine young ladies, but that works too

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08-05-2011, 05:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
I would rather he learn how to play that 2 on 2 so the opposing player isn't in front of the net all alone...but that's just me.
Don't really see what you want MDZ to do there, or what he CAN do there, other than lay the body on Kovy while he's passing to Elias.

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08-05-2011, 05:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Don't really see what you want MDZ to do there, or what he CAN do there, other than lay the body on Kovy while he's passing to Elias.
seriously? he should stay on his man and not let him slip behind the play. Kovalchuk was out there all alone. He even pulls up and hits the brakes. There is nothing he can do from where he is especially while stationary.

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08-05-2011, 05:08 PM
  #56
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Most of fighting is balance anyway. If gets better at staying on his feet then its a win for the rangers.

I agree with Orr, either u know how to fight or u don't.

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08-05-2011, 05:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
seriously? he should stay on his man and not let him slip behind the play. Kovalchuk was out there all alone. He even pulls up and hits the brakes. There is nothing he can do from where he is especially while stationary.
From where he was, there was no way he was going to stop Kovalchuk from getting behind the play without taking a penalty. He should've stayed with him but he's not getting there in time to stop a thing with the way Kovalchuk just worms through the huge space between him and DG. Not to mention Girardi could've done something as well since it does look like a miscue with them both on Elias.

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08-05-2011, 05:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Don't really see what you want MDZ to do there, or what he CAN do there, other than lay the body on Kovy while he's passing to Elias.
Its a 2 on 2 you play man to man, after Kovy makes the pass one of the Dmen have to say with him, you can't let any player be all alone in front like that. Instead of stopping, and you can clearly see him put the brakes on in the video, either MDZ or Girardi have to stay with the guy driving to the net, both dmen were at the faceoff dot when Elias takes the shot from the top of the circle, Kovy is all alone for a rebound try.

It's great that he took him out but I would rather he be tying Kovy up so he doesn't get a rebound chance.

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08-05-2011, 05:20 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
I would rather he learn how to play that 2 on 2 so the opposing player isn't in front of the net all alone...but that's just me.
This

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08-05-2011, 05:22 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Its a 2 on 2 you play man to man, after Kovy makes the pass one of the Dmen have to say with him, you can't let any player be all alone in front like that. Instead of stopping, and you can clearly see him put the brakes on in the video, either MDZ or Girardi have to stay with the guy driving to the net, both dmen were at the faceoff dot when Elias takes the shot from the top of the circle, Kovy is all alone for a rebound try.

It's great that he took him out but I would rather he be tying Kovy up so he doesn't get a rebound chance.
I agree he could've played it better but the way it ends up playing out, by the time Kovy's going through the hole MDZ's not going to really be able to do anything to stop the short rebound/attempted stuff by Kovalchuk, and again I also think it's a possibility Girardi and MDZ got their wires crossed because they're both on Elias. To me that's less of a "being unable to play defense" and more of a rookie mistake.

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08-05-2011, 05:34 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I agree he could've played it better but the way it ends up playing out, by the time Kovy's going through the hole MDZ's not going to really be able to do anything to stop the short rebound/attempted stuff by Kovalchuk, and again I also think it's a possibility Girardi and MDZ got their wires crossed because they're both on Elias. To me that's less of a "being unable to play defense" and more of a rookie mistake.
I think if he uses his momentum and goes with Kovy as he splits the 2 dmen he is close enough to lift his stick or get his body on him before he can get to the rebound...once both dmen stop there is nothing they can do being flatfooted.

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08-05-2011, 05:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I agree he could've played it better but the way it ends up playing out, by the time Kovy's going through the hole MDZ's not going to really be able to do anything to stop the short rebound/attempted stuff by Kovalchuk, and again I also think it's a possibility Girardi and MDZ got their wires crossed because they're both on Elias. To me that's less of a "being unable to play defense" and more of a rookie mistake.
IMO, Girardi has the shooter. MDZ hits the brakes, God knows why, -> Kovalchuk gets away from. If he ignores the drop pass, let's Girardi take his man, sticks with his man, he's at least in range to get a stick on Kovalchuk's stick and prevent a scoring op. Then he can dump Kovy as well. I just don't know why you are making excuses for him on a play he so obviously and unequivocally botched. Stick to your man on a 2-on-2 is pretty straight forward.

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08-05-2011, 05:50 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
IMO, Girardi has the shooter. MDZ hits the brakes, God knows why, -> Kovalchuk gets away from. If he ignores the drop pass, let's Girardi take his man, sticks with his man, he's at least in range to get a stick on Kovalchuk's stick and prevent a scoring op. Then he can dump Kovy as well. I just don't know why you are making excuses for him on a play he so obviously and unequivocally botched. Stick to your man on a 2-on-2 is pretty straight forward.

Because that wasn't an example of not being able to play defense, which is what the grand scheme of this thread is about, it was a rookie mistake. He messed up the play but Kovalchuk is a fantastic skater and was able to prey on his inexperience.

And looking at the play again, it looks more like Hank had the puck and Kovalchuk brute forced Hank's pads and not the puck itself. He hardly, if ever, has his stick on the puck. I'm defending him because it's an example of a play where an elite veteran was able to use his superior skating to split the d-men and take advantage of a rookie, not where the rookie makes a horrendous mistake like some people try to make MDZ's entire time in the defensive zone out to be.

Really i'm playing devil's advocate because it was a sweet dump. But I honestly don't think it was such a horrendous mistake. Bad move? Sure, he could've played it better. But I think a lot of the "well he should learn how to play defense before he does anything!" comments come from his lack of offense this year and not his actual defensive inefficiencies.

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08-05-2011, 06:22 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
No one complains when Crosby M.Richards, Ovechkin or chara drop the gloves...
Pens and Caps fans definitely don't approve of Crosby or Ovechkin getting into fights. Chara is 9 feet tall, and Flyers fans probably did complain every time Mike Richards got whooped by Dubinsky.

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08-05-2011, 07:12 PM
  #65
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64 posts and no one has mentioned Youngblood?????

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08-05-2011, 07:38 PM
  #66
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there isnt a player on this roster that has more to lose this season than mdz. hes under some pressure to produce.

learning how to fight has nothing to do with his success. nada. zip. zero.

dude should focus and execute this season starting the first day of camp. if he steps up and we have him and erixon both who can play some offense from the blueline, we could have quite the dangerous pp with br19 running the show.

michael needs to step up bigtime. fighting or learning how to fight shouldnt even be on his radar.

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08-05-2011, 08:59 PM
  #67
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I don't know why everyone is going so crazy about this:

First, MDZ is not becoming a fighter, nor is he planning to fight more often, he is just adding more skills and knowledge to becoming a more complete player. What if Kovalchuk gets up on that play and goes to drop the gloves with him? What do you want MDZ to do, turtle? Or get beat up? Let him stand up for himself, he's a grown man.

Second, not so long ago we were all preaching that this group of guys needed to get team tough. But now that one of the guys is doing exactly that, why are so many crying about it?

And third and probably most important, what does learning how to fight have to do with playing defense? It's not one or the other, he can learn to do both, so why are there people saying he should learn to play defense and stop trying to learn to fight, why can't he do both?

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08-05-2011, 09:02 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BluelineHammer View Post
I don't know why everyone is going so crazy about this:

First, MDZ is not becoming a fighter, nor is he planning to fight more often, he is just adding more skills and knowledge to becoming a more complete player. What if Kovalchuk gets up on that play and goes to drop the gloves with him? What do you want MDZ to do, turtle? Or get beat up? Let him stand up for himself, he's a grown man.

Second, not so long ago we were all preaching that this group of guys needed to get team tough. But now that one of the guys is doing exactly that, why are so many crying about it?

And third and probably most important, what does learning how to fight have to do with playing defense? It's not one or the other, he can learn to do both, so why are there people saying he should learn to play defense and stop trying to learn to fight, why can't he do both?
This, I don't know what people are getting worked up about.
Fighting training is not only good for conditioning, it is good for a defenseman. It will likely give him more confidence in his ability to drop them, giving him more incentive to get his hands dirty and clear the crease.

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08-05-2011, 10:41 PM
  #69
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i would rather read that Del Zotto was working on actually getting his shots on goal,not punching a player.keep the gloves on son,get your shots on net!!

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08-05-2011, 11:52 PM
  #70
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Funny how many hockey videos with different subjects all show how crappy the officials are!

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08-06-2011, 12:22 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Rather him just learn how to play defense and use his head a little more.
lol my first thoughts exactly. It'd be one thing if Marc Staal or Dan Girardi decided to spend some time figuring out how to really throw em, but dontcha think Del Zotto has much bigger concerns than fighting?

Although, I respect that he probably feels he'd like to be able to do as much as possible to make the team and if he could drop the gloves and put up a decent fight it'd be one more thing he could bring to the table. I just think he's got bigger issues, like hitting the net and playing defense.

His first season he was more accurate IIRC and put up good point totals. His second season he missed the net almost 50% of the times he shot or some outrageous stat I saw on TSN a few weeks back. His point totals suffered.

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08-06-2011, 12:29 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluelineHammer View Post
I don't know why everyone is going so crazy about this:

First, MDZ is not becoming a fighter, nor is he planning to fight more often, he is just adding more skills and knowledge to becoming a more complete player. What if Kovalchuk gets up on that play and goes to drop the gloves with him? What do you want MDZ to do, turtle? Or get beat up? Let him stand up for himself, he's a grown man.

Second, not so long ago we were all preaching that this group of guys needed to get team tough. But now that one of the guys is doing exactly that, why are so many crying about it?

And third and probably most important, what does learning how to fight have to do with playing defense? It's not one or the other, he can learn to do both, so why are there people saying he should learn to play defense and stop trying to learn to fight, why can't he do both?
1) Kovalchuk got housed by Gomez. I'm not that concerned about it. And it's funny you mentioned Kovalchuk specifically
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBHNfqJ6NJ0

2) Team toughness has so little to do with fighting its not even worth going on more about it. He should work on his play in the corners and in front of the net if it's really about team toughness. He could learn how to hip check if it's about team toughness. Even shot blocking.

Third, no one is saying it's one or the other, but there's only so many hours in the day, and Del Zotto needs to improve drastically in his own end if he wants to make something out of himself. He's got a decent frame and can skate, so he's got the physical tools to succeed. If he really wants to overhaul his game he should focus on one or two really important aspects that he needs work in. Fighting is not one of them. The last thing on his mind should be fighting. He has too many flaws otherwise.

We've seen flashes of toughness from him. The above video...and who can forget his game against the Canes his rookie year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUkgh...97A9E97685E19F

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08-06-2011, 12:45 AM
  #73
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This is hardly a big deal at all, shame of him for getting stronger and learning to stick up for himself.

I grew up with a kid that played for the U-18 USNDT, and I'm fairly positive they were given boxing lessons during the season.

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08-06-2011, 12:49 AM
  #74
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I guess people on these boards have never multitasked, taken on multiple hobbies, or learned to do a few new things in the same timeframe. Because every time it is reported that a player is trying to learn a skill in addition to another facet of the game he is working on, the reaction is always "OMG he shouldn't be focusing on THAT!" It even happens when players are doing their own things off the ice: "How dare Drury own a pizzeria instead of concentrating on his on-ice performance!" "Avery and Voros are dining at fancy restaurants, the nerve of them!"

Nowhere has Del Zotto said "I am dedicating 100% of my time in the offseason to learn how to fight." Last month, Andrew Gross reported that DZ was studying video on how other PPQBs run their power play. Del Zotto has been working out the entire summer and is aware that he needs to play like he did in his rookie year. We also know he has taken skating lessons with Barb Underhill. Trying to make it seem like he is somehow shirking on his other responsibilities and priorities merely because he is learning how to fight is a blowing things way out of proportion. Then again, that's par for the course around here.

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08-06-2011, 09:53 AM
  #75
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Watching Del Zotto's first year. I was beginning to think we had a young Chelios type of player. talented. fearless, and chippy. Torterella had often commented on Michaels cocky personality. But after coming back from his injury. with the skate across his abdomen, it looked to me like his game changed, that fearlessness just wasn't quite there.
A little bit of fight training might help him with his confidence, I liked that chippy young defensmen, with experience his defense will get better, but it's his attitude and talent which will fit into this team nicely.

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