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Kreider Ranked #10 NHL Prospect by ESPN

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Old
08-05-2011, 06:48 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Thanks.

So you either say he isn't at the same level or JVR had different opportunities at his college.
Probably both.

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08-05-2011, 06:50 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I think he is definitely better than Granlund and Tarasenko.
This kid Tarasenko is supposed to be a mini Ovie. Has better numbers than Ovie in the KHL and has been playing against the top lines in that league since he was 16. He is only 18 now and is going to play one more year for his father (Coach) before joining the Blues. Needless to say JD and the staff are a bit disappointed he won't join camp this fall.

You ask me he is not rated high enough.

Kreider needs another year or two. Tarasenko is ready now.

Of the Rangers prospects, where does Thomas stand? I think he's more ready than Kreider is. Thomas will definitely impress in camp this fall.

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08-05-2011, 07:09 AM
  #53
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If Kreider were at North Dakota for example, he would have dominated NCAA by now.

WJC two straight years he was the team's top goal scorer.

He showed flashes of his ability against NHL level players two years at the Men's WC.

Beanpot MVP, scored how many big goals for BC the last two years?

He will be the go-to offensive player this year at BC.

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08-05-2011, 07:16 AM
  #54
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If Kreider doesn't dominate this year, then we can worry.

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08-05-2011, 07:26 AM
  #55
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I still wouldn't worry.

David Booth scored less the Kreider at the NCAA level, and it didn't stop him from scoring 30 goals at the NHL level.

By contrast, Grachev scored 40 goals and 80 points in the OHL "dominated" and where's he at?

Kreider's BC numbers wont and are not a reflection of the kind of player he is/will be.

That said, he should score at good pace this year, simply because he's getting a far far larger role then he's ever had at BC.

He scored double digit goals in a secondary role.

Also, what fails to be mentioned is that he increased his production from Freshman to Sophomore season.

In six less games he scored one more point from the year prior. The broken jaw limited his chances to really surpass that.

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08-05-2011, 07:36 AM
  #56
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From everything i've seen of Kreider, he needs to use his skating abilities offensively more often. When he does, he's almost unstoppable, but it appears to me he doesn't use it to his advantage nearly as often as he should.



(also his disgusting deke from the beanpot before the one I linked)

When he's not doing that, he sorta of lets the game come to him, which works sometimes because of his shot. But he shouldn't be letting things happen with his tools, he should be MAKING things happen.

Take the guy in those videos and put him with the guy in these videos:




And you have a deadly player. But he needs to be making things happen with his skating and shot instead of letting things come to him.

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08-05-2011, 09:06 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Thanks.

So you either say he isn't at the same level or JVR had different opportunities at his college.
I don't think anyone feels that Kreider is at the same level as JvR who went #2 in the draft.

It is just that generally speaking Kreider's production in college is below par when compared to other blue chip prospects to come from college hockey.

Here are some stats of players their first two years or in some cases one year if they left early. Perhaps someone less lazy than me could do a ppg comparison.

Heatley, 113 pts in 77 games.
Parise, 106 pts in 76 games.
Comrie, 103 pts in 82 games.
T.J. Oshie, 97 pts in 86 games.
Drury, 94 points in 76 games.
Cammalleri, 87 points in 81 games.
Toews, 85 points in 76 games.
Andrew Ebbet, 64 points in 84 games.
Wheeler, 61 pts in 83 games.
David Booth, 54 points in 69 games.
Todd White, 51 pts in 67 games.
Okposo, 48 pts in 51 games.
Ryan Jones, 50 pts in 77 games.

Turris, 35 pts in 36 games (1 year only)
Kesler, 31 pts in 40 games (1 year only)

Kreider, 50 pts in 62 games.

What is telling in my opinion is that a lot of talented offensive guys end up coming to college and are physically overmatched for a year or two causing them to struggle a bit. Kreider on the other hand already had elite speed and was a big body.

In my opinion Kreider has not done anything to boost his value from being a 19th overall pick considering his production in his first two years. Especially when you consider that the majority of the prospects above boosted their numbers considerably in their second year, and Kreider didn't do that in a significant manner.

I hope that Kreider breaks out in a big way this year and shows some more end product that he previously has. But I think people who are expecting Kreider to be a first-line are probably setting themselves up for disappointment.I understand people are excited about his tools, but end product is what matters when it comes down to it and Kreider has not shown he can produce offensively at a level of upper end offensive prospects.

What gives me hope is looking at Kesler's numbers his first year. The only negative part of that is that Kesler is notoriously an extremely hard worker and has managed to continue to improve at a level that is very uncommon in the NHL, and also that nearly all players on the above list improved their stats significantly in year 2, which Kesler was not given a chance to do. Somewhat brought up Booth as well, which I think is a good example as well. Worth noting is that Booth ended up playing 4 years college hockey and half a season in the AHL, which I think might give an idea of how NHL ready Kreider is.

Edit: If Kreider is viewed as a top prospect I would certainly be very open for trading him for a high pick next year or packaging him for a top line lw.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 08-05-2011 at 09:23 AM.
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08-05-2011, 09:12 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
From everything i've seen of Kreider, he needs to use his skating abilities offensively more often. When he does, he's almost unstoppable, but it appears to me he doesn't use it to his advantage nearly as often as he should.



(also his disgusting deke from the beanpot before the one I linked)

When he's not doing that, he sorta of lets the game come to him, which works sometimes because of his shot. But he shouldn't be letting things happen with his tools, he should be MAKING things happen.

Take the guy in those videos and put him with the guy in these videos:




And you have a deadly player. But he needs to be making things happen with his skating and shot instead of letting things come to him.
Agree with this 100%. Needs to be more proactive and do less standing around waiting for things to happen. You saw it with some of the early WC games against the weaker teams, he was skating all over, getting to the puck and retreiving it, etc. Then against the stronger teams it's like he got too cautious and started standing around like he was worried he was going to get out of position if he did too much or something

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08-05-2011, 09:15 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by The Sweetness View Post
What gives me hope is looking at Kesler's numbers his first year. The only negative part of that is that Kesler is notoriously an extremely hard worker and has managed to continue to improve at a level that is very uncommon in the NHL, and also that nearly all players on the above list improved their stats significantly in year 2, which Kesler was not given a chance to do.
Eh, Kreider is also known as being a very hard worker with a good head on his shoulders

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08-05-2011, 09:50 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Agree with this 100%. Needs to be more proactive and do less standing around waiting for things to happen. You saw it with some of the early WC games against the weaker teams, he was skating all over, getting to the puck and retreiving it, etc. Then against the stronger teams it's like he got too cautious and started standing around like he was worried he was going to get out of position if he did too much or something
Yeah, that's all I really see holding him back, but i'm still very high on Chris. If he can put it together, god help every team that's not the Rangers. If he can't though i'm going to be so disappointed, even if he becomes a third liner (which I think is a given even if he busts due to his size, speed, shot and improving defensive game.) His speed and his shot are so amazing, just look at that ****ing water bottle fly.

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08-05-2011, 10:12 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Eh, Kreider is also known as being a very hard worker with a good head on his shoulders
There is a difference between being a hard worker and being about in the top percentile of NHL'ers when it comes to improving as a player the way Kesler has done.

My point is that we don't know enough about Kreider's desire to improve to be able to compare him with somewhat way off the charts like Kesler.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 08-05-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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08-05-2011, 10:29 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by The Sweetness View Post
There is a difference between being a hard working and being about the top percentile of NHL'ers when it comes to improving your career the way Kesler has done.

My point is that we don't know enough about Kreider's desire to improve to be able to compare him with somewhat way off the charts like Kesler.
My point was kind of that I doubt it's so much a "desire to improve" and "hard work" as much as it was Kesler is actually a damn talented player and he managed to find that talent and use it.

I don't know that Kreider is as talented as Kesler. It doesn't matter how hard Kreider works if he just legitimately isn't as talented as someone we try to compare him to.

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08-05-2011, 10:37 AM
  #63
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Erik Cole/Bill Guerin

I think he will be right around there.

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08-05-2011, 12:10 PM
  #64
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espn hates hockey

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08-05-2011, 01:19 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
This kid Tarasenko is supposed to be a mini Ovie. Has better numbers than Ovie in the KHL and has been playing against the top lines in that league since he was 16. He is only 18 now and is going to play one more year for his father (Coach) before joining the Blues. Needless to say JD and the staff are a bit disappointed he won't join camp this fall.

You ask me he is not rated high enough.

Kreider needs another year or two. Tarasenko is ready now.

Of the Rangers prospects, where does Thomas stand? I think he's more ready than Kreider is. Thomas will definitely impress in camp this fall.
Well you could argue that Tarasenko is the better player, but he is still a question mark to even come to the NHL. If I could choose either he or Kreider, I'd take Kreider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If Kreider were at North Dakota for example, he would have dominated NCAA by now.

WJC two straight years he was the team's top goal scorer.

He showed flashes of his ability against NHL level players two years at the Men's WC.

Beanpot MVP, scored how many big goals for BC the last two years?

He will be the go-to offensive player this year at BC.
Totally agree.

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08-05-2011, 01:26 PM
  #66
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Erik Cole/Bill Guerin

I think he will be right around there.
I have no problem with that, but I think he will be a bit better then those guys

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08-05-2011, 06:24 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I think he is definitely better than Granlund and Tarasenko.
i think hes definitely not better than tarasenko.

while krieder may be our best forward prospect, hes certainly not a lock for that first group at all.

his size and speed are weapons for sure, but hes atleast a year away from being a pro and his offensive instincts, while improving, are still not his strong suit at the moment..

tarasenko could play top 6 forward for the blues today. hes a dangerous sniper.

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08-05-2011, 06:58 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I'm too lazy and ignorant to look it up myself, but what kind of numbers did JVR put up in college? Similar to Kreider? Big guys take extra time to put it all together. He has the physical tools like JVR, he has lots of time to put it together.
Ya but is he as big JVR or even close. JVR plays a prototypical power forward and a couple games in the playoffs he showed flashes of a real stud player for the future. But hes big like 6'5 big. Anyway to early to predict for me i havent seen enough of these young guys play.

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08-05-2011, 07:03 PM
  #69
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I don't understand why Johansen is that high. I think he will be a great player, but he shouldn't be over Larsson, Landeskog or RNH... I guess theres a reason why ESPN doesn't cover hockey.

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08-05-2011, 07:57 PM
  #70
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I think that Kreider is a great prospect, and don't really look at his stats in college as to the player he will be. I think at the WJC this past year he left a little to be desired, but that was the US team as a whole. I don't know if he will reach the Bill Guerin level as that's asking an awful lot of a player. Bill Guerin who was a consistent 20 plus scorer with a few 30 goal, and one 40 goal season. I think the skill sets are different, but Kreider definitely has the potential to be better than Eric Cole. The ESPN list is awful, and just a complete joke. The other list someone made on here was just downright awful as well. I personally think that Tarasenko is the best player not in the NHL right now. He is off the charts skilled, and has the physical ability to do what he wants.

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08-05-2011, 08:17 PM
  #71
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Ya but is he as big JVR or even close. JVR plays a prototypical power forward and a couple games in the playoffs he showed flashes of a real stud player for the future. But hes big like 6'5 big. Anyway to early to predict for me i havent seen enough of these young guys play.
JVR is listed at 6'3 200 lbs on the Flyers website. Kreider is listed 6'3 217 on the Rangers website.

They're about the same size. I thought JVR was also criticized for playing too much of a finesse game as well, though I could be wrong on that

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08-05-2011, 08:22 PM
  #72
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I have no problem with that, but I think he will be a bit better then those guys
You think Chris Kreider will be better than one of the greatest American Born players of all time?

Sorry if I'm jumping to conclusions but I hadn't read through the whole thread.

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08-05-2011, 09:20 PM
  #73
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You think Chris Kreider will be better than one of the greatest American Born players of all time?

Sorry if I'm jumping to conclusions but I hadn't read through the whole thread.
I think you overrate Billy Guerin just a little bit.

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08-05-2011, 09:35 PM
  #74
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Guerin has well over 400 career NHL goals.

Id take that from Kreider and run to the bank. That would be a steal from #19 overall.

Kreider's production from his Freshman and Sophomore seasons at BC are inconsequential to what kind of professional hockey player he will become.

Low in the pecking order of a stacked BC team the last two years, he scored double digit goals and put up 20+ points. He could have put up 30+ had he not broken his jaw and missed time last season.

He is going to be "the" guy at BC this year. The production will be a byproduct of the increased role.

That's not all that needs to be looked at.

Racking up points doesn't mean a player is developing.

Exhibit A: Grachev.

Kreider was drafted as a driven individual that was also a mostly one dimensional player.

He's blossomed into a two way PLAYER since being drafted. He's learned and developed and worked hard at developing the things he needed to, to put confidence in coaches to entrust him with more ice time and to be put in more diverse situations. That will increase his production by nature.

He's fine. He will be fine.

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08-05-2011, 11:31 PM
  #75
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Yikes quite a stretch. He isn't even the best prospect for the Rangers.

My Top 10:

1. Brayden Schenn
2. Ryan Nugent Hopkins
3. Adam Larsson
4. Ryan Johansen
5. Erik Gudbranson
6. Mikael Granlund
7. Gabriel Landeskog
8. Jonathan Huberdeau
9. Sean Couturier
10. Ryan Murphy

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