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Kreider Ranked #10 NHL Prospect by ESPN

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Old
08-06-2011, 09:07 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
For now, I'm leaving the names.
As someone with copyrighted material, I applaud the effort to fully protect copyright.

In my opinion, which is not expert but informed, I understand that LIMITED acknowledgment of actual NEWS, provided there is full credit to authorship and copyright is okay for summary purposes.

Given that it is through ESPN, and not a private author, and ESPN is a news reporting service, and all acknowledgment was fully made, I BELIEVE you are entirely good if you do it in the construct of an accurate quote.

IOW, IMO

"An article indicated as accredited to _________________ {author's name} at ESPN {source} discussing hockey prospects provided the following ranking:

1 name
2 name

The article was found at ________ {source location: ESPN, name of paper/website where listed}.

Full information for ESPN {copyright holder} can be found at ___________ {courtesy reference, full disclosure, ESPN.com}"

That would seem better from a standpoint of legalese, but I think the tuncated version with names of author and copyright holder/distributing partner (if author not copyright holder and it is work for hire) and the listing is probably OK,

When I get a chance, I'll PM you a reference to a book published by my copyright attorney.

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08-06-2011, 09:20 AM
  #77
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I have generally tried to be neither improperly ovelry excited or subdued abour our prospects, recognizing some are duds, some are studs, and some are just fair to midlin.

From the beginning I have been consistent.
On the strength of his PHENOMENAL skating, barring injury this guy will be like the next Dave Keon.
He wll have uber-elite skating, and good if not great basic offensive skills at minimum
It is not clear how much that shot will develop as he fills out, but this guy is not just another Gene Carr (skates like a fish in water, can't put the puck in the OCEAN)
I was a little concerned if he bulked up too much, it would reduce his speed, but reports suggest so far so good.

This is our best prospect.
Thomas has improved in my eyes, but Kreider is can't miss, not boom bust.

This is why when considering trades, I have always offered an increased level of alternate compensation while retaining this bluest of our blue chips.

Can't wait...

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08-06-2011, 09:43 AM
  #78
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Only reason why he's that high on ESPN's list is because he's from the Boston area and loves the Red Sox LOL.

Kreider is NOT the 10th best prospect in all of hockey. There have been two drafts since 2009, and outside of his excellent WJC's (less than 15 total games over 2 years), he hasn't shown consistency at the NCAA level.

Typical pro-Boston content from ESPN.


Last edited by GWOW: 08-06-2011 at 09:57 AM.
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08-06-2011, 02:41 PM
  #79
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Yikes quite a stretch. He isn't even the best prospect for the Rangers.

My Top 10:

1. Brayden Schenn
2. Ryan Nugent Hopkins
3. Adam Larsson
4. Ryan Johansen
5. Erik Gudbranson
6. Mikael Granlund
7. Gabriel Landeskog
8. Jonathan Huberdeau
9. Sean Couturier
10. Ryan Murphy
You are going to put 6 2011 draftees on the top 10 list. LOL that's almost as bad as ESPN's list

I guess you forgot about Erixon and Rundblad. Ryan Murphy for example, is no where near them

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08-06-2011, 02:44 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Thanks.

So you either say he isn't at the same level or JVR had different opportunities at his college.
Jerry York plays his seniors over guys who are either playing well or have more talent.

Kreider hasn't nearly gotten the same chance in college that JVR did. The fact that his numbers are as close to a point per game lifetime as they are is astonishing.

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08-06-2011, 03:13 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
You are going to put 6 2011 draftees on the top 10 list. LOL that's almost as bad as ESPN's list

I guess you forgot about Erixon and Rundblad. Ryan Murphy for example, is no where near them
Yeah, he's better.

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08-06-2011, 03:15 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Yeah, he's better.
I'd take Rundblad over him and run.

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08-06-2011, 07:47 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Yeah, he's better.
I really hope you are joking.

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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'd take Rundblad over him and run.
My thoughts exactly. Rundblad is... I can't even describe him. If the Rangers got him somehow, I'd have to change my pants... 8 times

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08-06-2011, 08:13 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I really hope you are joking.

I love how you're treating this like I said Prucha is better then Crosby.

Ryan Murphy is a fantastic offensive defenseman with a ton of room to grow defensively. Yeah, he's not at the same level of development as Erixon or Rundblad, but he's 2 years younger. A guy like Ryan Ellis is a weak skater, so there are worries he won't be able to handle the NHL defensively, or even offensively. Murphy is a phenomenal skater, and is going to be a huge contributor for Canada in December. There's a reason why he is ranked just as high or even higher then the both of them.

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08-06-2011, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
I love how you're treating this like I said Prucha is better then Crosby.

Ryan Murphy is a fantastic offensive defenseman with a ton of room to grow defensively. Yeah, he's not at the same level of development as Erixon or Rundblad, but he's 2 years younger. A guy like Ryan Ellis is a weak skater, so there are worries he won't be able to handle the NHL defensively, or even offensively. Murphy is a phenomenal skater, and is going to be a huge contributor for Canada in December. There's a reason why he is ranked just as high or even higher then the both of them.
I'm not comparing it to prucha and crosby. You would rather take an unproven 18 year old Murphy than take a kid who is turning 21 in October who put up 50 points in a Mens league, the SEL? Yea, that makes a ton of sense, lets take the kid who is 2 years younger just because he is 2 years younger. You act like 21 years old is ancient. I'm sorry, but I'd rather take the guy who is 2 years older, still ****ing young at 21, and has proven himself in the SEL, arguably the 2nd best league in the world, than take an unproven 18 year old assuming he will reach that status. So no I'm not acting like you'd take Prucha over Crosby, I'm simply saying that your logic is flat out retarded.

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08-06-2011, 08:48 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I'm not comparing it to prucha and crosby. You would rather take an unproven 18 year old Murphy than take a kid who is turning 21 in October who put up 50 points in a Mens league, the SEL? Yea, that makes a ton of sense, lets take the kid who is 2 years younger just because he is 2 years younger. You act like 21 years old is ancient. I'm sorry, but I'd rather take the guy who is 2 years older, still ****ing young at 21, and has proven himself in the SEL, arguably the 2nd best league in the world, than take an unproven 18 year old assuming he will reach that status. So no I'm not acting like you'd take Prucha over Crosby, I'm simply saying that your logic is flat out retarded.
Wow you're a moron. Because most popular websites ****ing list Murphy AHEAD of Rundblad and Erixon. There was no logic involved in my post at all, I simply stated I like Murphy better and stated why I think he's good. The only player I compared him with in my previous post was Ryan Ellis. Take it up with the professionals who make the lists if you have a problem.

The list is the top prospects in hockey. That doesn't mean just NHL readiness. It takes into account potential, NHL readiness and stats. Not once did I ever say Erixon and Rundblad's age is working against them, I said that Murphy, who is much more developed then Rundblad (not Erixon, but Murphy has way better upside) was at 18, and is already ranked higher then them. I'm not taking Murphy based current accomplishment, I think he's going to be the best player out of these 3 defenseman. So ****ing sue me, this isn't rocket science.

And then I disagree with you, favoring the massive majority, and you respond with "I hope you're joking". Is that your response to everyone who doesn't agree with you? "I'd rather eat an apple over an orange". "I hope you're joking...". It's the exact same thing, and I didn't even say AINEC or any of that crap. I said Murphy's better.

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08-06-2011, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Wow you're a moron. Because most popular websites ****ing list Murphy AHEAD of Rundblad and Erixon. There was no logic involved in my post at all, I simply stated I like Murphy better and stated why I think he's good. The only player I compared him with in my previous post was Ryan Ellis. Take it up with the professionals who make the lists if you have a problem.

The list is the top prospects in hockey. That doesn't mean just NHL readiness. It takes into account potential, NHL readiness and stats. Not once did I ever say Erixon and Rundblad's age is working against them, I said that Murphy, who is much more developed then Rundblad (not Erixon, but Murphy has way better upside) was at 18, and is already ranked higher then them. I'm not taking Murphy based current accomplishment, I think he's going to be the best player out of these 3 defenseman. So ****ing sue me, this isn't rocket science.

And then I disagree with you, favoring the massive majority, and you respond with "I hope you're joking". Is that your response to everyone who doesn't agree with you? "I'd rather eat an apple over an orange". "I hope you're joking...". It's the exact same thing, and I didn't even say AINEC or any of that crap. I said Murphy's better.
Did it hurt your feelings or something? I'm sorry baby You act like no one has ever said that line before. Yea exactly, I say that to everyone that disagrees with me, yup you nailed it on the head. The fact that you took "I hope you're joking" as an attack upon your opinion, is just as retarded as you think I am for saying Murphy isn't better than Rundblad. Now I'm going to stop arguing because we clearly have two different viewpoints, but next time someone says "I hope you're joking", don't go ape **** on them thinking they are attacking you.

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08-06-2011, 08:52 PM
  #88
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We could have drafted Tarasenko

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08-06-2011, 09:03 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Did it hurt your feelings or something? I'm sorry baby You act like no one has ever said that line before. Yea exactly, I say that to everyone that disagrees with me, yup you nailed it on the head. The fact that you took "I hope you're joking" as an attack upon your opinion, is just as retarded as you think I am for saying Murphy isn't better than Rundblad. Now I'm going to stop arguing because we clearly have two different viewpoints, but next time someone says "I hope you're joking", don't go ape **** on them thinking they are attacking you.
Not offended. You responded cocky like you're opinion is always correct, when in fact most people would disagree with you. That's all I was saying. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, don't worry.

And the fruit part was clearly a joke, you're the one getting steamy over it.

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08-06-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Not offended. You responded cocky like you're opinion is always correct, when in fact most people would disagree with you. That's all I was saying. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, don't worry.

And the fruit part was clearly a joke, you're the one getting steamy over it.
whatever bro, that's the first time I've used that line in my 900+ posts on here, I'm not one to get cocky.

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08-06-2011, 09:23 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
whatever bro, that's the first time I've used that line in my 900+ posts on here, I'm not one to get cocky.
Got it, sorry if I misinterpreted it. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Rundblad/Erixon vs. Murphy.

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08-06-2011, 09:29 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Did it hurt your feelings or something? I'm sorry baby You act like no one has ever said that line before. Yea exactly, I say that to everyone that disagrees with me, yup you nailed it on the head. The fact that you took "I hope you're joking" as an attack upon your opinion, is just as retarded as you think I am for saying Murphy isn't better than Rundblad.
How else is it supposed to be taken? You find his opinion laughable.



And for the record, I'd take Rundblad over Murphy.

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08-06-2011, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
You are going to put 6 2011 draftees on the top 10 list. LOL that's almost as bad as ESPN's list

I guess you forgot about Erixon and Rundblad. Ryan Murphy for example, is no where near them
Sure he is. I like Murphy and should do very well with Carolina as last year they drafted the Calder winner from the same Kitchener team. He may have an outside chance at the team like Skinner did and he's only 18 years old. By far the most talented blue liner in the OHL. People will start to hype him up when he puts on a show in next years WJC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I really hope you are joking.



My thoughts exactly. Rundblad is... I can't even describe him. If the Rangers got him somehow, I'd have to change my pants... 8 times
Really? I'm not that sold on Rundblad. He's a nice puckmover but has deficiency in his game defensively and needs to put up a good NA pro season before I'm convinced he's the real deal. I think it's much tougher for those SEL points to translate into NHL points, see Zuccarello....I don't think Rundblad is THAT much of an improvement over Erixon. I'd rather have Gudbranson, Murphy, Hamilton, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I'm not comparing it to prucha and crosby. You would rather take an unproven 18 year old Murphy than take a kid who is turning 21 in October who put up 50 points in a Mens league, the SEL? Yea, that makes a ton of sense, lets take the kid who is 2 years younger just because he is 2 years younger. You act like 21 years old is ancient. I'm sorry, but I'd rather take the guy who is 2 years older, still ****ing young at 21, and has proven himself in the SEL, arguably the 2nd best league in the world, than take an unproven 18 year old assuming he will reach that status. So no I'm not acting like you'd take Prucha over Crosby, I'm simply saying that your logic is flat out retarded.
Zuccarello lead the league in points in the SEL, arguably the MVP in 'The Second Best League in the world'. Does that mean I take him over a 18 year old Ryan Nugent Hopkins or Gabriel Landeskog, heck no!

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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
We could have drafted Tarasenko
What has he proven yet? I mean I'm not going to jump into conclusions yet and I hated the McIlirath pick. What if Tarasenko turns out to be a Filatov? I think people are blinded by the flashy European players with skill and play overseas.

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08-06-2011, 11:59 PM
  #94
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Only reason why he's that high on ESPN's list is because he's from the Boston area and loves the Red Sox LOL.

Kreider is NOT the 10th best prospect in all of hockey. There have been two drafts since 2009, and outside of his excellent WJC's (less than 15 total games over 2 years), he hasn't shown consistency at the NCAA level.

Typical pro-Boston content from ESPN.
Wait, a professional hockey scout puts a NEW YORK Rangers prospect number 10 on his top prospects list and it's somehow because of an ESPN conspiracy to pump up Boston? What's the master plan?

1: Place a perhaps slightly inflated ranking of one hockey prospect who plays for Boston College on a list of top prospects compiled by one guy.
2: Hide the article behind the ESPNInsider paywall.
3: ????
4: Profit.

ESPN is a business. Its one and only priority is making money. Disagree with the rankings all you like, but it has nothing to do with some secret, ESPN, pro-Boston conspiracy.

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08-07-2011, 01:55 PM
  #95
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Wait, a professional hockey scout puts a NEW YORK Rangers prospect number 10 on his top prospects list and it's somehow because of an ESPN conspiracy to pump up Boston? What's the master plan?

1: Place a perhaps slightly inflated ranking of one hockey prospect who plays for Boston College on a list of top prospects compiled by one guy.
2: Hide the article behind the ESPNInsider paywall.
3: ????
4: Profit.

ESPN is a business. Its one and only priority is making money. Disagree with the rankings all you like, but it has nothing to do with some secret, ESPN, pro-Boston conspiracy.


I worked for ESPN in Bristol and in Boston. It's no conspiracy. When Ticker closed their Boston office, all the writers migrated to Bristol. The Jersey City guys went to Stats Inc., Elias or the AP in NYC. All the interns are from Storrs with New England roots. ESPN actually airs the Beanpot despite pathetic ratings.

Find me one prospect ranking post-2011 draft where Kreider is in the top-15, let alone the top-10.

I still think Kreider has great potential but I think the only reason why he's on Sonier's list is because Sonier spent time around Kreider when he scouted for the Bruins.

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08-07-2011, 02:13 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I worked for ESPN in Bristol and in Boston. It's no conspiracy. When Ticker closed their Boston office, all the writers migrated to Bristol. The Jersey City guys went to Stats Inc., Elias or the AP in NYC. All the interns are from Storrs with New England roots. ESPN actually airs the Beanpot despite pathetic ratings.

Find me one prospect ranking post-2011 draft where Kreider is in the top-15, let alone the top-10.

I still think Kreider has great potential but I think the only reason why he's on Sonier's list is because Sonier spent time around Kreider when he scouted for the Bruins.
I'm not arguing the ranking. This is far from the first and far from the last ESPN list to be wrong about something. What I'm objecting to is the idea that a random scout ranked Kreider high because ESPN is a pro-Boston propaganda network. Sonier's a scout. He ranked Kreider high because he thinks highly of him. It's not shocking that the opinion of an individual scout doesn't match up perfectly with every other published ranking compiled across the internet.

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08-07-2011, 02:35 PM
  #97
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I'm not arguing the ranking. This is far from the first and far from the last ESPN list to be wrong about something. What I'm objecting to is the idea that a random scout ranked Kreider high because ESPN is a pro-Boston propaganda network. Sonier's a scout. He ranked Kreider high because he thinks highly of him. It's not shocking that the opinion of an individual scout doesn't match up perfectly with every other published ranking compiled across the internet.
He's not a random scout. He's paid by ESPN and scouted Kreider when he was at Phillips. Bruins scouts spend a TON of their time in the area, watching powerhouses like Catholic Memorial and Thayer and the NEJHL. Sonier was let go by the Bruins right before the 2009 draft, but he had seen enough of Kreider. He wasnt their Canadian scout. Adam Creighton and Daniel Dore (bonus points for his relation to the Rangers) are the main CHL scouts for Boston.

Don Sweeney, Gerry Cheevers and Sonier all stayed local for the 2008 and 2009 drafts. For all we know, Sonier discovered Kreider and wanted him drafted.

Look at the facts: Boston-area scout in 2008 and 2009, now a paid employee by a Boston-centric news organization in New England, claims a Boston-area, Boston-schooled amateur as the 10th best prospect? In all of hockey?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

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08-07-2011, 02:45 PM
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Whether he really is a #10 or not, all i know is that I would kill to have Kreider on the Rangers this season... Kreider-Richards-Gaborik = OMFG

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08-07-2011, 02:56 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
He's not a random scout. He's paid by ESPN and scouted Kreider when he was at Phillips. Bruins scouts spend a TON of their time in the area, watching powerhouses like Catholic Memorial and Thayer and the NEJHL. Sonier was let go by the Bruins right before the 2009 draft, but he had seen enough of Kreider. He wasnt their Canadian scout. Adam Creighton and Daniel Dore (bonus points for his relation to the Rangers) are the main CHL scouts for Boston.

Don Sweeney, Gerry Cheevers and Sonier all stayed local for the 2008 and 2009 drafts. For all we know, Sonier discovered Kreider and wanted him drafted.

Look at the facts: Boston-area scout in 2008 and 2009, now a paid employee by a Boston-centric news organization in New England, claims a Boston-area, Boston-schooled amateur as the 10th best prospect? In all of hockey?

Hmmmmmmmmm.
I'm not objecting to the fact that he likes Kreider or that he's a Boston area scout, but it's a little silly to say his prospect rankings are all part of a grand scheme by ESPN to promote Boston. I understand that you have some kind of grudge or past history with ESPN. But try and look at this objectively. ESPN is the nationally broadcast sports arm of Disney and ABC. Disney's priority is money. ABC's priority is money. Therefore, ESPN's priority is money. Not good sports coverage. Not Boston. Money.

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08-07-2011, 02:57 PM
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9. Vladimir Tarasenko

If only he fell to us!

But in all seriousness I'm really excited for McIlrath. Kids gonna be an animal. Might not be the most sound defender but he'll provide a level of grit that will have teams shying away from playing their top line guys when hes out there.

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