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Our success rests on our 2nd-pairing sophomores; true or false?

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Old
08-07-2011, 05:57 PM
  #26
beastly115
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True.

And this has been one of the most overlooked points on this board.

Many players go through sophomore slumps. If both of them regress, we could be in big trouble.

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08-07-2011, 06:30 PM
  #27
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Our sucess lies in less injuries. The less injuries the more success. Gaborik, Richards and Callahan stay healthy and the team will do very well.

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08-07-2011, 08:26 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
any one team's success never rests on just 2 players.
See penguins 11'


Don't think their as much of a risk for a sophomore slump as mdz was. So going to have to say no.

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08-07-2011, 08:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Because clearly a 21 year old offensive Dman who hasn't put it all together is a bust.
Never said he was a bust. Listen, I love the kid. The end to end rushes I've seen out of him are reminiscent of the great # 2. But he needs to start developing. He has clear offensive skills, but his defense is a liability. And with the defense we've already got in place, and with what we're trying to do, he may become expendable. Especially if we can move him for an established puck moving defenseman.

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08-07-2011, 09:29 PM
  #30
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Our success, as it has ALWAYS been since the lockout, has rested on this mans shoulders.


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08-07-2011, 09:36 PM
  #31
MacTruck
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I don't think our success rests on any particular individual or defensive unit, line combination, or goaltender. Our success will rely on how we click as a team and how hard ALL the players are willing to work night in and night out. The quicker we can click, the more successful we will be.

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08-07-2011, 09:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by In Gordie We Trust View Post
I don't think our success rests on any particular individual or defensive unit, line combination, or goaltender. Our success will rely on how we click as a team and how hard ALL the players are willing to work night in and night out. The quicker we can click, the more successful we will be.
Good point: plenty of teams look good on paper. But, the inexperience of the defense should be a clear concern, especially when a team will rely on a 2nd pair who have a total of less than 120 games between them. Tortorella has said it takes about 200 games at the NHL level before you really know what type of defenseman you have. It's going to be interesting to see how he handles the defense.

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08-07-2011, 09:56 PM
  #33
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We were a tough team to play against last season. If we keep that mentality night in and night out, we should be good to go.

While I agree to a certain extent that no one player (or two) makes a team, we have a few guys who can make it really tough on teams, certainly Lundqvist is in that category, along with Cally.

By the same token we'll find it hard to win when certain players are struggling, again Hank's one of those guys.

The idea is to get into the play-offs and then have everyone firing on all cylinders. The young guys may make mistakes, hopefully we can overcome those by having a balanced attack, solid D and elite goaltending.

A deadly combo.

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Old
08-07-2011, 10:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Our success, as it has ALWAYS been since the lockout, has rested on this mans shoulders.

That's true. But I expect him to be his usual kick ass self again. I think he's top 2 in the league and anyone who says otherwise is full of it.

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08-07-2011, 10:05 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
any one team's success never rests on just 2 players.
See Carolina.

Without Ward/Staal the Canes are as good as the wolfpack.

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08-07-2011, 10:17 PM
  #36
Jaromir Jagr
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There are always players that excel and always players that regress. That's why it's always just an assumption that X and X players will do well on one particular year. Remember when we had 'eight 20-goal scorers' not too long ago? I remember Joe saying that on opening night. Things never work out as planned.

This is a real valid point. If McD and Sauer aren't what they were last year or close to it, we could be in for some trouble. However, on the flip side, there will probably be a surprise (maybe rookie) year for someone like Erixon, Vtank, or a MDZ rebirth. Positives almost always come with negatives, so lets just let it ride.

I will say this: I'm less worried about our defense than I am our PP/offense. I'm very very negative and the one positive I can find in last years team and this years is our defense is filled with good young players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
See Carolina.

Without Ward/Staal the Canes are as good as the wolfpack.
Eh, maybe so in that particular situation. However, most of the time, a team can even play up to par without their star player or two. Just look at Pittsburgh, who really got the job done without Crosby and Malkin. Teams always find ways to adjust. Hell, we were basically without Gaborik for the majority of the year with his inconsistencies and still managed to make the playoffs and at least put up a bit of a fight. It really just depends.

Plus, McD and Sauer are not our star players, though they are a formidable part of our defense and an integral part.

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08-07-2011, 10:30 PM
  #37
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McD and Sauer will not be paired next season. So even one or both will have a quite normal regress, that will not effect anything very much. One of them, probably Sauer, may be dealt as we no need that many Ds of the same type.

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08-07-2011, 10:37 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
McD and Sauer will not be paired next season. So even one or both will have a quite normal regress, that will not effect anything very much. One of them, probably Sauer, may be dealt as we no need that many Ds of the same type.
not sure how u figure that...what's a regress for 2 guys who have ALWAYS been rock solid in their own zone? it's not like this is MDZ who got by 2 years ago based on his offensive prowess...these 2 have been solid in their zone their entire careers....Sauers only issue has been health...when healthy he was always going to be a damn solid defenseman....frankly he should have made this team....what was it....3 seasons ago? Renneys last season i think....he was one of our 2 or 3 best defenseman all throughout preseason....except Renney isn't torts...w/ torts, if you win a job, you win a job, period. anyways, thats neither here nor there....to me if there are 2 solid examples of players who should be sophomore slump proof it's these 2 guys. Why? because they keep it simple, they don't try to do too much. If they add offense to their game, its bonus, but all they gotta work on is keeping players to the outside, winning those physical battles, and chipping pucks out on the glass...they know their strengths.

the player that looks poised to have a slump would probably be Stepan because of how many of his goals were just sheer luck....i think he's going to regress in the goal scoring department this year...and of course i think most if not all of us expect Boyle to have a huge drop off in production (50% or more)

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08-07-2011, 10:41 PM
  #39
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I think the OPs statement is true. I also have a very good feeling about these two guys though, especially McD, who is going to be a stud. I'm more worried about Gaborik bouncing back. If he doesn't get it going with Richards, it'll really be a huge let down.

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08-07-2011, 10:56 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
not sure how u figure that...what's a regress for 2 guys who have ALWAYS been rock solid in their own zone? it's not like this is MDZ who got by 2 years ago based on his offensive prowess...these 2 have been solid in their zone their entire careers....Sauers only issue has been health...when healthy he was always going to be a damn solid defenseman....frankly he should have made this team....what was it....3 seasons ago? Renneys last season i think....he was one of our 2 or 3 best defenseman all throughout preseason....except Renney isn't torts...w/ torts, if you win a job, you win a job, period. anyways, thats neither here nor there....to me if there are 2 solid examples of players who should be sophomore slump proof it's these 2 guys. Why? because they keep it simple, they don't try to do too much. If they add offense to their game, its bonus, but all they gotta work on is keeping players to the outside, winning those physical battles, and chipping pucks out on the glass...they know their strengths.
There is a disadvantage of pairing two stay-at-home guys. Those who keep it simple do not represent much of the challenge to anyone. Should that not be the case we would have seen that solution all over the league. There is no offense possible without Ds. Same as there is no good defense without forwards, but to greater extent. If DelZotto continue to be dormant, the only hope for any success is Erixon, but that is not known factor. So McD and Sauer might be asked, as part of their development to carry the puck a little deeper and to pinch in some more. Why not? That is where the danger is. A few mistakes, second year factor, and loss of confidence as a result. That is why I am sure they will be broken as a pair. One will play with Erixon. Second with MDZ.


Last edited by 94now: 08-07-2011 at 11:01 PM.
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Old
08-07-2011, 10:58 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
There is a disadvantage of pairing two stay-at-home guys. Those who keep it simple do not represent much of the challenge to anyone. Should that not be the case we would have seen that solution all over the league. There is no offense possible without Ds. Same as there is no good defense without forwards, but to greater extent. If DelZotto continue to be dormant, the only hope for any success is Erixon, but that is not known factor. So McD and Sauer will be asked, as part of their development to pinch in some more. Why not? That is where the danger is. A few mistakes, second year factor, and loss of confidence as a result.
says who? some of the best defenseman in the league THRIVE on keeping it simple and playing a rock solid game in their own zone...ask Regher about how that's worked out for him.

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08-07-2011, 11:03 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Our success, as it has ALWAYS been since the lockout, has rested on this mans shoulders.

Pretty much. But I strongly doubt all Sauer, McDonagh, Erixon and Del Zotto all have bad years. Defense really isn't that much of a problem in my opinion. Of course there may be some question marks if Sather decides to shop for Weber or Suter on which pieces will be going the other way.

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08-07-2011, 11:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
says who? some of the best defenseman in the league THRIVE on keeping it simple and playing a rock solid game in their own zone...ask Regher about how that's worked out for him.
Regher will be paired with Mayers, not with another stay-at-home D.

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08-07-2011, 11:31 PM
  #44
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Regher will be paired with Mayers, not with another stay-at-home D.
tyler myers isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut himself. he's huge and powerful so his shot can do damage but his game is simple and defensive. he does have SOME offense to his game, but he models himself after pronger and regher's style. they'll step up and make an offensive play but are generally gonna be playing sound defense in their own end. sauer showed a LITTLE bit of an offensive presence in the WHL but hasn't shown much since coming to the rangers organization. there's some hope though.

i don't think there's anything wrong with having 2 shut down defensive lines. ideally you'd like to have 2 lines that play good defense and can move the punk and create scoring but that's nearly impossible to find. girardi and staal are a shut down pair, and if mcsauer continues to grow and becomes a shut down pair on the same level then there's really no problem. i'd rather have 2 shut down lines then 2 lines that create offense but are a liability on defense.

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08-08-2011, 08:04 AM
  #45
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tyler myers isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut himself. he's huge and powerful so his shot can do damage but his game is simple and defensive. he does have SOME offense to his game, but he models himself after pronger and regher's style. they'll step up and make an offensive play but are generally gonna be playing sound defense in their own end. sauer showed a LITTLE bit of an offensive presence in the WHL but hasn't shown much since coming to the rangers organization. there's some hope though.

i don't think there's anything wrong with having 2 shut down defensive lines. ideally you'd like to have 2 lines that play good defense and can move the punk and create scoring but that's nearly impossible to find. girardi and staal are a shut down pair, and if mcsauer continues to grow and becomes a shut down pair on the same level then there's really no problem. i'd rather have 2 shut down lines then 2 lines that create offense but are a liability on defense.
The main reason for Rangers inability to score is a lack of puck movers from back end. Sure Richards acquisition will bring an improvement, but the man cannot play 30 minutes a game, while we would need whole 60. Every time Staal or Girardi crosses the red line with the puck I feel uneasy about turnover and possible breakaway. Same with McD and Sauer, but those two know to rid of the puck quickly. They skate over our blue line puck free. That is the secret of their success as error free defensemen, but it is not what our offense would need from defense. It is not that our core 4 Ds could not move the puck. They just cannot do it at NHL level where X-and-O coaches are able to come up to various schemes that would beat anyone but those with high individual puck moving skills. That is why we need MDZ to make his defensive mistakes even at the cost of Torts losing his job (the latter I do not see as a problem at all).

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08-08-2011, 08:31 AM
  #46
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I would say the opposite: Success rides on Gaborik and Richards producing (not necessarily together, but reaching their respective projected totals). We can compete with the sophs merely performing to last season's level. We had a great defense last year with them as rookies, no reason we won't have it again this year.

You can split hairs and say that if they suck the team will suck, but that goes for just about anyone in the top 6/top 4. Those players need to play to expectations to make this a successful season.

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08-08-2011, 08:58 AM
  #47
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I like this thread. I think the sooner they grow and mature, the sooner we can really contend for the cup. Obviously, there are a lot of other factors, also. But their maturity is absolutely key.

I would also throw MDZ in the mix. For us to be really successful on the back-end, he needs to be getting a lot of TOI, and moving the puck.

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08-08-2011, 11:07 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Our success, as it has ALWAYS been since the lockout, has rested on this mans shoulders.


I love how Lundqvist said in an interview that *he* is the one who needs to play better for the team to become a contender.

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08-08-2011, 11:12 AM
  #49
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See Carolina.

Without Ward/Staal the Canes are as good as the wolfpack.
Jeff Skinner says hi.

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08-08-2011, 11:41 AM
  #50
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I love how Lundqvist said in an interview that *he* is the one who needs to play better for the team to become a contender.
No, he needs more than just that. Lundqvist needs to control his level of play, i.e. to elevate his game when needed most and for more than few games. That is what true elite performers able to do. That ability or in Lundqvist case inability is the reason why Rangers haven't had a single playoff to remember with him like we did with Richter.

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