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Best team without their top 2 players.

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:16 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Decided to try my hand at standings for the Western Conference with this concept. I'm sure they'll go over very well.

In case it's somehow unclear, the player names listed next to each team name are the two players removed from the roster.


#1: Los Angeles (Kopitar, Doughty) - President's Trophy candidate with a deep offense, the best blueline in the West, and quality goaltending.
#2: Chicago (Toews, Keith) - A solid if unspectacular blueline, a capable goaltender, and a high quality offense led by Kane and Sharp. Darkhorse contender for tops in the League.
#3: Vancouver (Sedin, Sedin) - As Kesler goes, so goes this team. The blueline isn't half bad either. That said, they only rank so high because somebody has to win the Northwest.
#4: San Jose (Thornton, Boyle) - One of the best in the West with a quality blueline and some of the better scoring forwards in the game.
--[talent drop-off point]--
#5: St. Louis (Backes, Pietrangelo) - A surprisingly effective offense which helps support one of the conference's better goaltenders, although the blueline isn't strong enough to really compete.
#6: Detroit (Datsyuk, Lidstrom) - A middle-of-the-road team saved from hrumdrum existence by All-Star Zetterberg.
#7: Columbus (Nash, Carter) - Good two-way blueline and forwards, but nothing resembling any standout talents. And that's not even taking into account the question marks in goal...
#8: Anaheim (Getzlaf, Perry) - A surprisingly good blueline and quality goaltending don't get past the fact that they have no offensive depth at all.
--------
#9: Dallas (Ribeiro, Eriksson) - Jamie Benn and Brenden Morrow are the highlights of an otherwise talent-poor offense.
#10: Phoenix (Doan, Yandle) - Another middle-of-the-road team; goaltending is questionable but helped by a reasonably solid blueline.
--[talent drop-off point]--
#11: Nashville (Weber, Suter) - The best goaltender in the conference keeps them alive and somewhat competitive. Somewhat.
#12: Colorado (Duchene, Stastny) - A solid blueline, workable goaltending, and no offense whatsoever.
#13: Calgary (Iginla, Kiprusoff) - Dependent on the blueline to cover for the worst goaltending in the West.
#14: Minnesota (Heatley, Koivu) - A patchwork team with little on the blueline and even less down the middle.
#15: Edmonton (Whitney, Hemsky) - The Kids Are All Right. The blueline - far and away the worst in the League - decidedly is not. The goaltending ain't much better.
You mean the only good players on the team?

Ok homer whatever you say.



















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Old
08-08-2011, 01:23 AM
  #52
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BacklundtoBartschi View Post
You mean the only good players on the team?

Ok homer whatever you say.
Would you prefer I pretend Henrik Karlsson is a starting goaltender?

Calgary would be in that playoff group if the two "best players" removed were Iginla and Bouwmeester. However, that kind of, by definition, indicates that Kiprusoff is more important than Bouwmeester.

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:30 AM
  #53
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The Rangers would lose Richards and Lundqvist, two players they'd struggle without.

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:39 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Anyone who has their goalie in their top 2 is in trouble.
Why is that? I don't think it's a stretch to say Price is one of yours.

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:44 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Would you prefer I pretend Henrik Karlsson is a starting goaltender?

Calgary would be in that playoff group if the two "best players" removed were Iginla and Bouwmeester. However, that kind of, by definition, indicates that Kiprusoff is more important than Bouwmeester.
I didn't even mention Calgary, calm down. All i'm saying is that you're vastly overrated your own team.

Take out Nash and Carter and you think you're getting 7th in the west?

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:59 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Decided to try my hand at standings for the Western Conference with this concept. I'm sure they'll go over very well.

In case it's somehow unclear, the player names listed next to each team name are the two players removed from the roster.


#1: Los Angeles (Kopitar, Doughty) - President's Trophy candidate with a deep offense, the best blueline in the West, and quality goaltending.
#2: Chicago (Toews, Keith) - A solid if unspectacular blueline, a capable goaltender, and a high quality offense led by Kane and Sharp. Darkhorse contender for tops in the League.
#3: Vancouver (Sedin, Sedin) - As Kesler goes, so goes this team. The blueline isn't half bad either. That said, they only rank so high because somebody has to win the Northwest.
#4: San Jose (Thornton, Boyle) - One of the best in the West with a quality blueline and some of the better scoring forwards in the game.
--[talent drop-off point]--
#5: St. Louis (Backes, Pietrangelo) - A surprisingly effective offense which helps support one of the conference's better goaltenders, although the blueline isn't strong enough to really compete.
#6: Detroit (Datsyuk, Lidstrom) - A middle-of-the-road team saved from hrumdrum existence by All-Star Zetterberg.
#7: Columbus (Nash, Carter) - Good two-way blueline and forwards, but nothing resembling any standout talents. And that's not even taking into account the question marks in goal...
#8: Anaheim (Getzlaf, Perry) - A surprisingly good blueline and quality goaltending don't get past the fact that they have no offensive depth at all.
--------
#9: Dallas (Ribeiro, Eriksson) - Jamie Benn and Brenden Morrow are the highlights of an otherwise talent-poor offense.
#10: Phoenix (Doan, Yandle) - Another middle-of-the-road team; goaltending is questionable but helped by a reasonably solid blueline.
--[talent drop-off point]--
#11: Nashville (Weber, Suter) - The best goaltender in the conference keeps them alive and somewhat competitive. Somewhat.
#12: Colorado (Duchene, Stastny) - A solid blueline, workable goaltending, and no offense whatsoever.
#13: Calgary (Iginla, Kiprusoff) - Dependent on the blueline to cover for the worst goaltending in the West.
#14: Minnesota (Heatley, Koivu) - A patchwork team with little on the blueline and even less down the middle.
#15: Edmonton (Whitney, Hemsky) - The Kids Are All Right. The blueline - far and away the worst in the League - decidedly is not. The goaltending ain't much better.
This kids a riot

Here's my own rankings of the west starters:

1.Roberto Luongo
2.Pekka Rinne
3.Jaroslav Halak
4.Johnathan Quick
5.Jonas Hiller
6.Miikka Kiprusoff
7.Semyon Varlamov
8.Jimmy Howard
9.Cory Crawford
10.Nicklas Backstrom
11.Antti Niemi
12.Steve Mason
13.Kari Lehtonen
14.Nikolai Khabibulan
15.Jason LaBarbera

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:02 AM
  #57
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BacklundtoBartschi View Post
I didn't even mention Calgary, calm down. All i'm saying is that you're vastly overrated your own team.

Take out Nash and Carter and you think you're getting 7th in the west?
If they vanish altogether and nobody else in the league does, we're unquestionably ****ed and you are right to laugh. But that's not the basis on which the standings were done. They were done assuming everybody lost their two best players. That's why Detroit is near the bottom of the playoff teams rather than competing for the Central, for example.

And seeing as though Calgary is the only West team that would lose their starting goaltender I'd say "worst in the West" is accurate in that context. (You could make a case for Anaheim or Nashville, but both of them would suffer more if you took away their other star on offense or defense respectively.)


And while you didn't mention Calgary, since you didn't really bother to read my post and instead looked at which team I cheer for and criticized based on that, I figured that you'd understand.

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:10 AM
  #58
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Ovechkin and Backstrom. Niether showed up all year, and we won the East.

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:33 AM
  #59
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Canucks without Kesler and Daniel Sedin

Samuelsson-H.Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Hodgson-Sturm
Higgins-Malhotra-Hansen
Nolan-Lapierre-Bitz

Edler-Salo
Bieksa-Hamhuis
Tanev-Ballard

Luongo
Schneider

Contender for the division

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:56 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BobbyMarks1 View Post
If Marc Savard had played all year at the level he can play at, I don't think there's any doubt that he'd be considered the best player on the Bruins. That said, he'll never play the way he did in 08 ever again, if he plays at all.
yeah a 100 point forward is better than a .938 save pct goalie


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Old
08-08-2011, 03:00 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jdawg View Post
Bruins missed their best forward player all year long...
Savard isn't what he used to be. I don't think anything changes for the B's by putting Savard in the lineup. You probably don't get Kaberle either.

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Old
08-08-2011, 03:22 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BacklundtoBartschi View Post
This kids a riot

Here's my own rankings of the west starters:

1.Roberto Luongo
2.Pekka Rinne
3.Jaroslav Halak
4.Johnathan Quick
5.Jonas Hiller
6.Miikka Kiprusoff
7.Semyon Varlamov
8.Jimmy Howard
9.Cory Crawford
10.Nicklas Backstrom
11.Antti Niemi
12.Steve Mason
13.Kari Lehtonen
14.Nikolai Khabibulan
15.Jason LaBarbera
...he meant AFTER taking out Kipper. Would you argue that Karlsson is anywhere above the cellar?


Frankly I agree with his list. Taking away the best two players from a top-heavy team like Anaheim? That's fatal. One of the better defensive ends though with a great defense and goaltending (relative to post-expunge teams).

Dallas lost a 90p centre and did not replace him. Take away their 70p centre and a 35g+ scorer and you're left with Morrow, Benn, Robidas, Daley, Lehtonen, and not much else.

I disagree with Phoenix though. I feel they are way too high. I believe Nashville should be above Phoenix and Columbus/Anaheim/Dallas. Still a great system with a great coach and a plethora of two-way forwards.


Columbus is still fairly well off. Vermette, Umberger, healthy Huselius, and Brassard form a solid top 4 with Wisniewski from behind. Anaheim relies on one forward and Dallas relies on two to score.

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Old
08-08-2011, 04:22 AM
  #63
yapperface
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BacklundtoBartschi View Post
This kids a riot

Here's my own rankings of the west starters:

1.Roberto Luongo
2.Pekka Rinne
3.Jaroslav Halak
4.Johnathan Quick
5.Jonas Hiller
6.Miikka Kiprusoff
7.Semyon Varlamov
8.Jimmy Howard
9.Cory Crawford
10.Nicklas Backstrom
11.Antti Niemi
12.Steve Mason
13.Kari Lehtonen
14.Nikolai Khabibulan
15.Jason LaBarbera
I honestly don't see a bad goalie on this list.

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Old
08-08-2011, 04:28 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by yapperface View Post
I honestly don't see a bad goalie on this list.
I'll help:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacklundtoBartschi View Post
15.Jason LaBarbera

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Old
08-08-2011, 09:55 AM
  #65
Aquiace
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I'll help:
Is he even the starter? Or is Mike Smith?

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:04 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Two teams that haven't been mentioned but should be is Flyers and Caps. Their depth is underrated. I think they'd do well even without Ovechkin+Bäckström/Green/Carlson/whoever you want out, as would the Flyers without Giroux/Pronger.
The Caps look pretty dubious without Ovy and Backstrom. Their center depth is atrocious.

I like SJ for the question.

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:20 AM
  #67
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If the Bruins lost Chara-and just Chara I think they would mostly be DOA. One need only look as far as game 2 of the Montreal series to get a sense of just how awful the defense would look.

While I think it would hurt to lose Thomas, I actually think the team would hurt more if they lost Krejci and Chara than Thomas and Chara because Rask is still a pretty darn good goalie.

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:43 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Ryan-Koivu-Selanne
Blake-Cogliano-Etem
Beleskey-McMillan-DSP
Maroon-Macaneaur-Parros

Visnovsky-Lydman
Fowler-Beauchemin
Sbisa-Foster

Hiller
Ellis

Our lack of depth really shows here.
I think that Selänne is better than Getzlaf. So Perry and Selänne gone our top 6 looks like...

Ryan-Getzlaf-Etem
Blake-Koivu-DSP/Palmieri?

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:50 AM
  #69
NUhockey
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Originally Posted by Burningblades View Post
Philly before the Carter and Richards trade.
Haha, came here to say this. Holmgren was playing the same game apparently.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:02 AM
  #70
Injury Prone Stastny
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Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary
Hudler-Flippula-Bertuzzi
Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves
Miller-Emmerton-Mursak

Kronwall-Stuart
Ericsson-White
Kindl-Commodore 64

Howard



Not a bad lineup. Probably would finish 7th place or so without datsyuk and Lidstrom.
That's reaching. The team looks AHLish imo.

And Lidstrom is great and all, but I think at this time Dastyuk and Zetterburg are the 2 best players.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:07 AM
  #71
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I expect our top 2 players to be Spezza, and one of Alfredsson, Gonchar, or Anderson.
So...

A) No Alfie
Filatov-Regin-Michalek
Foligno-Da Costa-Butler
Greening-Smith-Condra
Winchester-Konopka-Neil

Karlsson-Gonchar
Phillips-Lee
Cowen-Kuba
Carkner

Anderson
Auld

B) No Gonchar
Filatov-Regin-Alfredsson
Foligno-Da Costa-Michalek
Greening-Smith-Butler
Condra-Konopka-Neil
Winchester

Kuba-Karlsson
Phillips-Lee
Rundblad-Carkner

Anderson
Auld

C) No Anderson
Filatov-Regin-Alfredsson
Foligno-Da Costa-Michalek
Greening-Smith-Butler
Condra-Konopka-Neil
Winchester

Karlsson-Gonchar
Phillips-Lee
Cowen-Kuba
Carkner

Lehner
Auld

I think the worst team is probably C, but god damn they are all atrocious.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:08 AM
  #72
Stephen Goalbert
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Carolina without Staal and Ward...

Jokinen-Ruutu-Skinner
Ponikarovsky-Sutter-Boychuk
LaRose-Dalpe-Stewart
Tlusty-Brent-Dwyer

Pitkanen-McBain
Kaberle-Gleason
Joslin-Allen

Boucher
Peters

Not as horrific as I thought. As for the question, probably Boston given they have Rask behind Thomas and the D wouldn't be TOO awful without Chara.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:09 AM
  #73
wubwubwubwub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Injury Prone Stastny View Post
That's reaching. The team looks AHLish imo.
Not really. That team would smoke the Sens, at least. I think its easily a playoff team in the East.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:12 AM
  #74
Zubrus Coffee Maker
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Elias - Zajac - Palmieri
Tedenby - Josefson - Zubrus
Boulton - Henrique - Clarkson
Janssen - Pelley - Zharkov

Volchenkov - Greene
Tallinder - Larsson
Salvador - Taormina

Brodeur
Hedberg

w/o Parise and Kovalchuk

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:28 AM
  #75
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FleetFoxes View Post
...she meant AFTER taking out Kipper. Would you argue that Karlsson is anywhere above the cellar?
I was kind of half-expecting such an argument, but, oh well.

(also, minor correction made )

Quote:
Originally Posted by FleetFoxes View Post
I disagree with Phoenix though. I feel they are way too high. I believe Nashville should be above Phoenix and Columbus/Anaheim/Dallas. Still a great system with a great coach and a plethora of two-way forwards.
I had Phoenix as high as they are because they've got a significant portion of their scoring still in place (Whitney, Vrbata, Korpikoski, et cetera) and several good defensive defensemen - just not enough to really push into the playoffs. And Nashville's as low as they are because while they'd still have a good top pairing (Blum-Klein), literally every single other defenseman would be a rookie. Which would be somewhat awkward, even with their killer pipeline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FleetFoxes View Post
Columbus is still fairly well off. Vermette, Umberger, healthy Huselius, and Brassard form a solid top 4 with Wisniewski from behind. Anaheim relies on one forward and Dallas relies on two to score.
We've also got Prospal in that mix.

Anaheim would be leaning on two forwards as well - Ryan and Selanne.

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