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Best team without their top 2 players.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:33 AM
  #76
SarahRomance
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I really hate to be bias, but I think The Sabres really are...We've seen players develop and excel when given the chance to shine...Without Miller and Vanek, we wouldn't be as strong but I really am happy with the line up.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:35 AM
  #77
Shinsuke Nakamura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Anyone who has their goalie in their top 2 is in trouble.
You mean like we do?

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:40 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I expect our top 2 players to be Spezza, and one of Alfredsson, Gonchar, or Anderson.
So...

A) No Alfie
Filatov-Regin-Michalek
Foligno-Da Costa-Butler
Greening-Smith-Condra
Winchester-Konopka-Neil

Karlsson-Gonchar
Phillips-Lee
Cowen-Kuba
Carkner

Anderson
Auld

B) No Gonchar
Filatov-Regin-Alfredsson
Foligno-Da Costa-Michalek
Greening-Smith-Butler
Condra-Konopka-Neil
Winchester

Kuba-Karlsson
Phillips-Lee
Rundblad-Carkner

Anderson
Auld

C) No Anderson
Filatov-Regin-Alfredsson
Foligno-Da Costa-Michalek
Greening-Smith-Butler
Condra-Konopka-Neil
Winchester

Karlsson-Gonchar
Phillips-Lee
Cowen-Kuba
Carkner

Lehner
Auld

I think the worst team is probably C, but god damn they are all atrocious.
. You ignored Spezza in all the Line ups lmao. Without Alfie: michalek-Spezza-Butler. Not a bad first line, could amount to around 80 goals.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:44 AM
  #79
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The flyers without Giroux and Pronger

JVR - Schenn - Voracek
Hartnell - Briere - Jagr
Nodl - Couturier - Simmonds
Talbot - Betts - Sestito

Timonen - Coburn
Carle - Mezaros
Gustafsson - Lilja

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

Thats not that bad. Pinning lots of hopes on Schenn and Couturier though.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:46 AM
  #80
Moore Money
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every team is ****ed without the two best players

If I had to pick one it would probably be Philly, they seem to rely the least on one or two guys.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:47 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Not really. That team would smoke the Sens, at least. I think its easily a playoff team in the East.
Yeah, they would smoke the Sens. But so would their own AHL affiliate.

None of their players really stand out to me. That's just my opinion though.

And I don't think they would be a playoff team in either conference if they lost Zet and Dats.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:48 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfieforever11 View Post
. You ignored Spezza in all the Line ups lmao. Without Alfie: michalek-Spezza-Butler. Not a bad first line, could amount to around 80 goals.
You missed the point. He said Spezza is the best player and then one of the others. That's why Spezza is in none of those line ups.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:58 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I was kind of half-expecting such an argument, but, oh well.

(also, minor correction made )



I had Phoenix as high as they are because they've got a significant portion of their scoring still in place (Whitney, Vrbata, Korpikoski, et cetera) and several good defensive defensemen - just not enough to really push into the playoffs. And Nashville's as low as they are because while they'd still have a good top pairing (Blum-Klein), literally every single other defenseman would be a rookie. Which would be somewhat awkward, even with their killer pipeline.



We've also got Prospal in that mix.

Anaheim would be leaning on two forwards as well - Ryan and Selanne.
I hinged most of Phoenix's success on Bryzgalov. The drop off from Bryzgalov to Labarbera/Smith is very significant so even without taking out Doan and Yandle, I have them below the big 5, Anaheim, Columbus, Nashville, and Dallas. Losing the two players that held the team together is a fatal injury, IMO.

Nashville
Great forwards
Bad defense
Great goaltending

vs.

Phoenix
Good forwards
Decent defense
Bad goaltending

The Predators would still have Boullion and Lebda though.

I completely forgot about Prospal. :p

I only considered players that have signed/are restricted free agents with a team so I didn't factor Selanne in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
The flyers without Giroux and Pronger

JVR - Schenn - Voracek
Hartnell - Briere - Jagr
Nodl - Couturier - Simmonds
Talbot - Betts - Sestito

Timonen - Coburn
Carle - Mezaros
Gustafsson - Lilja

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

Thats not that bad. Pinning lots of hopes on Schenn and Couturier though.

Still a very good team IMO but I don't really understand why Briere would play second fiddle to Schenn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
I think that Selšnne is better than Getzlaf. So Perry and Selšnne gone our top 6 looks like...

Ryan-Getzlaf-Etem
Blake-Koivu-DSP/Palmieri?
Er.. no, Getzlaf > Selanne. Getzlaf had a higher ppg and was close enough in gp/scoring that the offense is negligible. Then you would look at what the players bring when they aren't scoring. Getzlaf is physical, is reliable in his own zone, and is the captain.


Last edited by AmazingNuck: 08-08-2011 at 12:03 PM.
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Old
08-08-2011, 12:01 PM
  #84
wubwubwubwub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfieforever11 View Post
. You ignored Spezza in all the Line ups lmao. Without Alfie: michalek-Spezza-Butler. Not a bad first line, could amount to around 80 goals.
Yep, Spezza and ONE OF Alfie, Gonchar, OR Anderson

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Old
08-08-2011, 12:20 PM
  #85
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w/o Lundqvist and Richards:

Dubinsky-Stepan-Gaborik
Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan
Fedotenko-Boyle-Prust
Rupp-Christensen-Avery

Staal-Girardi
Mcdonagh-Sauer
Erixon-MDZ

Biron
Johnson

Not awful. Losing Hank would obviously hurt but I honestly think that we'd be Top 3 in the conference if every team had their top 2 removed.

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Old
08-08-2011, 12:26 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostrichsized View Post
w/o Lundqvist and Richards:

Dubinsky-Stepan-Gaborik
Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan
Fedotenko-Boyle-Prust
Rupp-Christensen-Avery

Staal-Girardi
Mcdonagh-Sauer
Erixon-MDZ

Biron
Johnson

Not awful. Losing Hank would obviously hurt but I honestly think that we'd be Top 3 in the conference if every team had their top 2 removed.
Not Top 3. Not really close. Playoffs, yes, top 3, no.

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Old
08-08-2011, 12:32 PM
  #87
Bondys Champagne
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Originally Posted by Aquiace View Post
Is he even the starter? Or is Mike Smith?
Does it matter?

I think NJ without Parisalchuk looks very bad

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Old
08-08-2011, 12:32 PM
  #88
Viqsi
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Made an attempt at standings for the East, although I don't know it quite as well so I'm much more likely to have goofed on the two players to pull. Feel free to hate these also.

#1: Philadelphia (Pronger, Bryzgalov) - President's Trophy candidate with strong goaltending, a capable if unspectacular blueline, and a vicious killer offense.
#2: Boston (Chara, Thomas) - The blueline is a tad thin, but that's the only weak point. Darkhorse contender for the East.
#3: Washington (Ovechkin, Backstrom) - A strong team featuring a young up-and-coming blueline, arguably one of the best goaltenders in the game, and an offense that gets the job done.
--[talent dropoff]--
#4: New Jersey (Parise, Brodeur) - Superstar offense and okay goaltending (for the East) plus a passable blueline equals a surprisingly effective team.
#5: Tampa Bay (Stamkos, St. Louis) - A competitive team that could use a little more offense, and the otherwise strong goaltending isn't getting any younger.
#6: Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin) - A streaky yet strong goaltender and the best blueline in the East are needed to prop up an offense that might be able to score multiple goals on a good day.
#7: Buffalo (Vanek, Miller) - Questionmark goaltending is made up for with one of the best bluelines in the East and a unspectacular yet capable offense.
#8: New York R (Staal, Lundqvist) - Strong blueline, fast-paced and exciting offense... and no goaltending worth speaking of. Still, that's better than many East teams...
--------
#9: Toronto (Kessel, Phaneuf) - A surprisingly deep collection of quality forwards and defensemen... but no real standout talents, and it's anyone's guess if the goaltending will hold up.
#10: Florida (Weiss, Booth) - The world's largest collection of roleplayers on offense is able to get by thanks to another killer blueline and surprisingly solid goaltending.
#11: Winnipeg (Enstrom, Byfuglien) - One of the better offenses and goaltending duos backed by a top-heavy (and not very good top-heavy at that) blueline.
#12: Montreal (Subban, Price) - Yet another otherwise solid team let down by its goaltending.
--[talent dropoff]--
#13: New York I (Tavares, Streit) - The kids are growing up, and backed by one of the East's best goaltenders in Nabokov.
#14: Carolina (Staal, Ward) - Okay blueline, the forwards are exciting when the opposition D gives them a chance, and the Shooter Tutor in net.
#15: Ottawa (Spezza, Karlsson) - Decent goaltending (for the East) isn't good enough to prop up a paper-thin blueline and an offense that consists of Alfie, Michalek, and desperate prayer.

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Old
08-08-2011, 12:34 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawg View Post
Bruins missed their best forward player all year long...
A Boston team without Tim Thomas and Chara doesn't even come close to making the playoffs.

My vote goes to Pittsburgh or Vancouver.

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:09 PM
  #90
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The Wild are painful to look at.

Latendresse - Bouchard - Setoguchi
Wellman (!!!!) - Cullen - Clutterbuck
Powe - Brodziak - Gillies
Nystrom - Almond - Staubitz

ouch

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:13 PM
  #91
SidGenoMario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
every team is ****ed without the two best players
If you count challenging for the division (like the Pens did last year) as being ****ed, then yes.

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:23 PM
  #92
SarahRomance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Made an attempt at standings for the East, although I don't know it quite as well so I'm much more likely to have goofed on the two players to pull. Feel free to hate these also.
#7: Buffalo (Vanek, Miller) - Questionmark goaltending is made up for with one of the best bluelines in the East and a unspectacular yet capable offense.
hold up.
.

Enroth is not questionable goaltending...

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:46 PM
  #93
caps4cup
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Double post


Last edited by caps4cup: 08-08-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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Old
08-08-2011, 01:49 PM
  #94
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For the caps it would be ovechkin and backstrom/green... I'll take out green

Semin-Backstrom-Knuble
Laich-Johansson-Brouwer
Chimera-Eakin-Ward
Sjogren-Halpern-Hendricks

Alzner-Carlson
Hamrlik-Wideman
Erskine-Schultz

Vokoun
Neuvirth


Pretty solid even though backstroms probably the second best player just not the way that he played last year. Take out backstrom, bump up each center and add jay beagle as 4C and replace Schultz with green

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:50 PM
  #95
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As for the question, probably Boston given they have Rask behind Thomas and the D wouldn't be TOO awful without Chara.
I disagree. I think the D would be atrocious without Chara for any length of time. They might make the playoffs without him, but I think it would be by the skin of their teeth and a lot of luck.

I think they would be okay without Thomas though. Rask is still a very good goalie.

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:12 PM
  #96
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Semin - Johansson - Knuble
Brouwer - Laich - Ward
Eakin - Perreault - Sjogren
Chimera - Halpern - Hendricks
Beagle
Hanson

Green - Hamrlik
Carlson - Alzner
Wideman - Schultz
Poti
Erskine

Vokoun
Neuvirth

Obviously the already solid D and goaltending stays intact. Even without Ovechkin/Backstrom, the first power-play could potentially be solid. Semin would have to play like Kovalchuk circa-2008 for the team to cotend.

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:26 PM
  #97
Rhodes 81
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winnipeg without enstrom and pavelec

ladd-little-wheeler
kane-burmistrov-byfuglien(without enstrom, byfuglien at d would be a disaster)
cormier-antropov-fehr
assorted 4th liner-slater-thorburn

hainsey-bogosian
stuart-jones
oduya-postma

mason
pasquale

the forwards get better by adding byfuglien and not losing anyone, but that d would be ROUGH. mason is a decent starter.

devils without parise and kovalchuk...i'm litterally laughing too much to do it

tedenby-zajac-palmieri
elias-josefson-zubrus
boulton-henrique-clarkson
janssen-pelley-zharkov

volchenkov-larsson
tallinder-greene
salvador-taormina

marty
moose

holly hell those forwards

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:27 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Made an attempt at standings for the East, although I don't know it quite as well so I'm much more likely to have goofed on the two players to pull. Feel free to hate these also.

#1: Philadelphia (Pronger, Bryzgalov) - President's Trophy candidate with strong goaltending, a capable if unspectacular blueline, and a vicious killer offense.
#2: Boston (Chara, Thomas) - The blueline is a tad thin, but that's the only weak point. Darkhorse contender for the East.
#3: Washington (Ovechkin, Backstrom) - A strong team featuring a young up-and-coming blueline, arguably one of the best goaltenders in the game, and an offense that gets the job done.
--[talent dropoff]--
#4: New Jersey (Parise, Brodeur) - Superstar offense and okay goaltending (for the East) plus a passable blueline equals a surprisingly effective team.
#5: Tampa Bay (Stamkos, St. Louis) - A competitive team that could use a little more offense, and the otherwise strong goaltending isn't getting any younger.
#6: Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin) - A streaky yet strong goaltender and the best blueline in the East are needed to prop up an offense that might be able to score multiple goals on a good day.
#7: Buffalo (Vanek, Miller) - Questionmark goaltending is made up for with one of the best bluelines in the East and a unspectacular yet capable offense.
#8: New York R (Staal, Lundqvist) - Strong blueline, fast-paced and exciting offense... and no goaltending worth speaking of. Still, that's better than many East teams...
--------
#9: Toronto (Kessel, Phaneuf) - A surprisingly deep collection of quality forwards and defensemen... but no real standout talents, and it's anyone's guess if the goaltending will hold up.
#10: Florida (Weiss, Booth) - The world's largest collection of roleplayers on offense is able to get by thanks to another killer blueline and surprisingly solid goaltending.
#11: Winnipeg (Enstrom, Byfuglien) - One of the better offenses and goaltending duos backed by a top-heavy (and not very good top-heavy at that) blueline.
#12: Montreal (Subban, Price) - Yet another otherwise solid team let down by its goaltending.
--[talent dropoff]--
#13: New York I (Tavares, Streit) - The kids are growing up, and backed by one of the East's best goaltenders in Nabokov.
#14: Carolina (Staal, Ward) - Okay blueline, the forwards are exciting when the opposition D gives them a chance, and the Shooter Tutor in net.
#15: Ottawa (Spezza, Karlsson) - Decent goaltending (for the East) isn't good enough to prop up a paper-thin blueline and an offense that consists of Alfie, Michalek, and desperate prayer.
I wouldn't call Filatov a ''desperate prayer'' if that's who your referring to...

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:37 PM
  #99
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Goalies should be excluded IMO. It should be two players that play 82 games a year, even if they ate technically one of their teams top 2 players.

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Old
08-08-2011, 04:30 PM
  #100
Datsyukian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Made an attempt at standings for the East, although I don't know it quite as well so I'm much more likely to have goofed on the two players to pull. Feel free to hate these also.

#1: Philadelphia (Pronger, Bryzgalov) - President's Trophy candidate with strong goaltending, a capable if unspectacular blueline, and a vicious killer offense.
#2: Boston (Chara, Thomas) - The blueline is a tad thin, but that's the only weak point. Darkhorse contender for the East.
#3: Washington (Ovechkin, Backstrom) - A strong team featuring a young up-and-coming blueline, arguably one of the best goaltenders in the game, and an offense that gets the job done.
--[talent dropoff]--
#4: New Jersey (Parise, Brodeur) - Superstar offense and okay goaltending (for the East) plus a passable blueline equals a surprisingly effective team.
#5: Tampa Bay (Stamkos, St. Louis) - A competitive team that could use a little more offense, and the otherwise strong goaltending isn't getting any younger.
#6: Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin) - A streaky yet strong goaltender and the best blueline in the East are needed to prop up an offense that might be able to score multiple goals on a good day.
#7: Buffalo (Vanek, Miller) - Questionmark goaltending is made up for with one of the best bluelines in the East and a unspectacular yet capable offense.
#8: New York R (Staal, Lundqvist) - Strong blueline, fast-paced and exciting offense... and no goaltending worth speaking of. Still, that's better than many East teams...
--------
#9: Toronto (Kessel, Phaneuf) - A surprisingly deep collection of quality forwards and defensemen... but no real standout talents, and it's anyone's guess if the goaltending will hold up.
#10: Florida (Weiss, Booth) - The world's largest collection of roleplayers on offense is able to get by thanks to another killer blueline and surprisingly solid goaltending.
#11: Winnipeg (Enstrom, Byfuglien) - One of the better offenses and goaltending duos backed by a top-heavy (and not very good top-heavy at that) blueline.
#12: Montreal (Subban, Price) - Yet another otherwise solid team let down by its goaltending.
--[talent dropoff]--
#13: New York I (Tavares, Streit) - The kids are growing up, and backed by one of the East's best goaltenders in Nabokov.
#14: Carolina (Staal, Ward) - Okay blueline, the forwards are exciting when the opposition D gives them a chance, and the Shooter Tutor in net.
#15: Ottawa (Spezza, Karlsson) - Decent goaltending (for the East) isn't good enough to prop up a paper-thin blueline and an offense that consists of Alfie, Michalek, and desperate prayer.

They finished higher last season without the big two for most of it. Now your taking away every teams two best players and they finish lower?

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