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Is our prospect pool okay or weak?

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08-08-2011, 12:07 PM
  #1
BigHabs
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Is our prospect pool okay or weak?

I have been seeing for a bit that our team has a weak prospect pool. I look at it and see key pieces I like going forward.

Here is a lineup if everything goes well. Do you this being a legitimate lineup in 4 or 5 years, or do you think these prospects aren't high quality like other teams.

Pacioretty Eller Kristo
Bournival Leblanc Gallagher
Avtsin Desharnais Palushaj
Schultz White Conboy

Engqvist/Berger/Blunden/Nattinen

Subban Tinordi
Emelin Beaulieu
Weber Mitera

Diaz/Nash/Stejskal

Price
?????


Last edited by BigHabs: 08-08-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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Old
08-08-2011, 12:16 PM
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It's extremely weak if only because our "in-NHL" list of young/prospect type players is extremely strong.

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08-08-2011, 12:23 PM
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Dwight
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Weak, IMO. It looks nice to us because we're fans of the team, but I'm sure you could look around the league and find many pools that are much stronger than ours. I see very little star power in the prospect pool, with Beaulieu being the only one, in my opinion, with top line potential.

Luckily, this is cyclical. Carolina used to have one of the worst pools, and now I believe they have one of the best. I have faith in Timmins, and we'll get our pool back to being as strong as it once was.

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08-08-2011, 12:28 PM
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Andy
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Weak, IMO. It looks nice to us because we're fans of the team, but I'm sure you could look around the league and find many pools that are much stronger than ours. I see very little star power in the prospect pool, with Beaulieu being the only one, in my opinion, with top line potential.

Luckily, this is cyclical. Carolina used to have one of the worst pools, and now I believe they have one of the best. I have faith in Timmins, and we'll get our pool back to being as strong as it once was.
That's because all it takes is one draft year to turn it around...another year like 2007(Mcdonaugh, Pacioretty, Subban, Weber) and we go from weak to above average.

But like Montreal below me mentioned, we had 4 guys make the jump last year which was a significant hit to the pool.

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08-08-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs Hotel View Post
I have been seeing for a bit that our team has a weak prospect pool. I look at it and see key pieces I like going forward.

Here is a lineup if everything goes well. Do you this being a legitimate lineup in 4 or 5 years, or do you think these prospects aren't high quality like other teams.
We have a weak prospect pool because we just lost 4 guys to the NHL full time and we lack top end talent.

That lineup seems highly unlikely to be legit since there will be trades and FA signings etc...

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08-08-2011, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
We have a weak prospect pool because we just lost 4 guys to the NHL full time and we lack top end talent.

That lineup seems highly unlikely to be legit since there will be trades and FA signings etc...
Thats not the point, I am asking if it did stay like that do you see that being a legit lineup of players or do you think that alot of the players will not live up to expectations.

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08-08-2011, 12:37 PM
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The only reason we're weak is because we have plenty of recent graduates.

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08-08-2011, 12:44 PM
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Making a line-up or prospects is fun but makes no sense. UFAs are signed to fill in holes. For instance, remove Cammy, gionta, gomez and the acquisition of eller through trade and our forward group looks pathetic.

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08-08-2011, 12:46 PM
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I find it a little weak especially on offence Wingers and Centers

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08-08-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
That's because all it takes is one draft year to turn it around...another year like 2007(Mcdonaugh, Pacioretty, Subban, Weber) and we go from weak to above average.
But like Montreal below me mentioned, we had 4 guys make the jump last year which was a significant hit to the pool.
This! And we gotta stop trading away draft picks!

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08-08-2011, 01:10 PM
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This! And we gotta stop trading away draft picks!
Yah I agree that we need to tone it down in that department as well. In the last 2 years we've had no 2nds or 3rds.

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08-08-2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Hotel View Post
I have been seeing for a bit that our team has a weak prospect pool. I look at it and see key pieces I like going forward.

Here is a lineup if everything goes well. Do you this being a legitimate lineup in 4 or 5 years, or do you think these prospects aren't high quality like other teams.

Pacioretty Eller Kristo
Bournival Leblanc Gallagher
Avtsin Desharnais Palushaj
Schultz White Conboy

Engqvist/Berger/Blunden/Nattinen

Subban Tinordi
Emelin Beaulieu
Weber Mitera

Diaz/Nash/Stejskal

Price
?????
I think there are a lot of serviceable NHLers in our prospect pool(2nd to 4th liners and #3 to #6 d-men), good depth, but the star players in terms of young players right now are at the NHL level. That could change if guys like MacMillan, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Kristo, Bennett, Avtsin, LeBlanc etc have a break out year.

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08-08-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think there are a lot of serviceable NHLers in our prospect pool(2nd to 4th liners and #3 to #6 d-men), good depth, but the star players in terms of young players right now are at the NHL level. That could change if guys like MacMillan, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Kristo, Bennett, Avtsin, LeBlanc etc have a break out year.
This

Its hard to draft top end talent when you are not drafting in the top 5.

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08-08-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Yah I agree that we need to tone it down in that department as well. In the last 2 years we've had no 2nds or 3rds.
But we picked up Dominic Moore

I agree and not only should we keep our picks but I would like to see Gauthier be more aggressive and try to acquire more picks

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08-08-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
This

Its hard to draft top end talent when you are not drafting in the top 5.
No it isn't.

Habs prospect pool is overall weak, since we have no legit NHL-talent goalie (Delmas is still ways from proving he's close to that) and our forward prospects seem more like a bunch of hit or miss guys than rising top 6 players (or stars).

Our prospects on D look overall pretty good. No elite 2-way guys in the pool, but that can change quickly. Even if it didn't, we still have a decent mix of defensive guys and puck movers.

Our pipeline isn't problematic, since there's a good number who, I'm sure, will turn into solid contributors, but I just don't see franchise players in there at the moment. Which is why the Habs have an average to below-average pool. We do have some very talented youth on the club, so it's really not that big a deal to be honest.

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08-08-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
But we picked up Dominic Moore

I agree and not only should we keep our picks but I would like to see Gauthier be more aggressive and try to acquire more picks
I honestly didn't mind those moves as I felt they were needed at the time, we can't deny that a 3rd line center in 09-10 and a PP puck moving defensemen in 10-11 were needed and I agreed with those trades. I'm talking more about moving the second to move up a couple of spots in the first or trading the 3rd to pick up two other 4ths.

The habs don't have many holes this season as it stands relative to others, so I'd like us to keep the picks if possible this year, since it's apparently a deeper draft than usual, at least that's what I've been reading.

As far as acquiring more picks goes, i don't see it happening. We won't be in a position to trade UFAs once again and we don't really have any extra assets right now that are expendable imo.

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08-08-2011, 01:35 PM
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Compared to other teams, I would say "average".

Our best youngsters are with the team right now (Price, Subban, Pac, DD, Weber, Eller, and hopefully Yemelin).

There is nothing amazing in Hamilton. Some solids 2nd, 3rd line players and a bunch of 4th liners. On "D", no exceptional talents. Maybe Mitera will finally comes out of his shell. Tinordi is 2-3 years away from NHL play. Same with Beaulieu.

If some drafts helped the team, more of the drafts were failure, especillay in 1st rounds. The trading of second round assets for rentals like Moore and Wiz, did not help.

We are still lacking real offensive two-top-line potential (a sniper).

Anyway, the core of the actual team is signed long-term (Cammy, Pleks, Gomez, Cole, Gionta)... MaxPac should be given a longer deal next season. A.K. is and will always remain a question mark.

DD and Eller could develop to become bonafide 2nd/3rd line centers.

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08-08-2011, 01:44 PM
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Team Strengths:
- Depth on defense

Team Weaknesses:
- Gritty/Physical Forwards

Next season and beyond, instead of drafting the best player available, Montreal needs to focus on drafting big centres with size (a la Eller and Pribyl) and focus on big wingers with grit, speed and toughness, players like Pacioretty and Tyler Biggs (a player I really wanted this season).

Defense wise with Subban, Emelin, Weber, Tinordi, Beaulieu and Mitera along with veterans in the future like Gorges, I think we are fine for years to come.

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Old
08-08-2011, 02:04 PM
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I would call our prospect pool "intriguing", if anything.

I guess that would translate to "weak" to certain, but I feel that we underestimate our own prospects.

You see people hoping that we sign a veteran defenseman to take up Weber's spot in the line-up, while I think he could be a huge part of our team next season. He's put up decent stats playing a very minimal role whenever he's been called up and he hasn't looked be at all. If given the chance, I feel he can greatly improve.

We have other prospects that could turn out great, but we don't know much about them because they're playing in the NCAA and aren't covered much (Pateryn, Bennett, Kristo, etc). I could see those guys making a difference in the NHL at some point.

Leblanc and Tinordi both had disappointing seasons, but we're way too quick to write them off.

All in all, in our current state, it looks like we have one of the weaker prospect pools in the NHL. But that's the thing with prospects, you never know. There was a thread in the prospect board not too long ago in which people where going back to old HF ratings from a few years ago, and many times, the hype didn't materialize, and lesser prospects ended up being superstars (guys like Keith, M. Richards, Statsny). I'm not saying we have that kind of quality in our pool, but who knows? Maybe a guy like Avtsin will explode next year.

Plus, as others have mentioned, we have few young guys playing in the NHL right now, which explains why we're lacking the depth we used to have.

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08-08-2011, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I honestly didn't mind those moves as I felt they were needed at the time, we can't deny that a 3rd line center in 09-10 and a PP puck moving defensemen in 10-11 were needed and I agreed with those trades. I'm talking more about moving the second to move up a couple of spots in the first or trading the 3rd to pick up two other 4ths.

The habs don't have many holes this season as it stands relative to others, so I'd like us to keep the picks if possible this year, since it's apparently a deeper draft than usual, at least that's what I've been reading.

As far as acquiring more picks goes, i don't see it happening. We won't be in a position to trade UFAs once again and we don't really have any extra assets right now that are expendable imo.
We won't know until deadline and the position we are in but I also doubt we would be selling unless a player would want out. I was mostly talking in the last year, we traded away Kostitsyn, could have probably got a pick if Gauthier tried harder, traded Halak I'm sure with Eller the Blues could have added a 2nd or 3rd rounder I doubt they wouldn't have agreed as he was the main piece. Anyways it's all a gamble with picks anyways but the more the better

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08-08-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
We won't know until deadline and the position we are in but I also doubt we would be selling unless a player would want out. I was mostly talking in the last year, we traded away Kostitsyn, could have probably got a pick if Gauthier tried harder, traded Halak I'm sure with Eller the Blues could have added a 2nd or 3rd rounder I doubt they wouldn't have agreed as he was the main piece. Anyways it's all a gamble with picks anyways but the more the better
Funny that you would say "we won't know until the deadline", implying that you don't want to speculate, but then you follow up by declaring with near certainty that PG could have gotten more, which is pure speculation.

Those guys are playing their jobs every day (the GMs that is). PG is not hot headed. He's patient. I'm sure he carefully explored every opportunities to trade those players. The way he gave away Kostitsyn suggests that he had no trade value at all. I'm sure SK was offered all around the league, but after the stunts he pulled the previous year, most teams weren't interested.

We will never know what offers Pierre Gauthier had for Halak. To say that he could have most likely gotten a 2nd round just by asking nicely is silly. We got a decent return for Halak. It's too bad we couldn't get the kind of return WAS got for Varlamov, but that's a case of the Avalanche being desperate for a goalie, they painted themselves in a corner had to overpay by a lot. They're in trouble financially and need to get some fans in the stands ASAP. I don't think they can go through another year of bottom-feeding.

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08-08-2011, 03:18 PM
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I expect Avtsin to improve his numbers significantly this year.

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08-08-2011, 03:22 PM
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Funny that you would say "we won't know until the deadline", implying that you don't want to speculate, but then you follow up by declaring with near certainty that PG could have gotten more, which is pure speculation.

Those guys are playing their jobs every day (the GMs that is). PG is not hot headed. He's patient. I'm sure he carefully explored every opportunities to trade those players. The way he gave away Kostitsyn suggests that he had no trade value at all. I'm sure SK was offered all around the league, but after the stunts he pulled the previous year, most teams weren't interested.

We will never know what offers Pierre Gauthier had for Halak. To say that he could have most likely gotten a 2nd round just by asking nicely is silly. We got a decent return for Halak. It's too bad we couldn't get the kind of return WAS got for Varlamov, but that's a case of the Avalanche being desperate for a goalie, they painted themselves in a corner had to overpay by a lot. They're in trouble financially and need to get some fans in the stands ASAP. I don't think they can go through another year of bottom-feeding.
I wished he could have had least swap his 1st pick with St-Louis' one, draft Tinordi anyway, and then keep his 2nd draft pick (which he has traded to move up in the draft to get Tinordi). Just that would had made me satisfied. Of course, having Perron would had been safer than getting Eller.

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08-08-2011, 03:36 PM
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I wished he could have had least swap his 1st pick with St-Louis' one, draft Tinordi anyway, and then keep his 2nd draft pick (which he has traded to move up in the draft to get Tinordi). Just that would had made me satisfied. Of course, having Perron would had been safer than getting Eller.
This isn't a game where you have "value" meters, try to make them match, push X and the trade is done. Trade negociation is a lenghty processus. Unless you get a call from another GM with an insane offer that you just can't refuse.

I'm sure PG and Armstrong had plenty of conversations and worked on a package together. You talk as if moving up 13 positions (27th to 14th) isn't that big of a deal. That's probably worth more than that 2nd round pick.

I have no idea why St Louis would do that.

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08-08-2011, 03:51 PM
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It's ok I think. We probably have quite a few players who will play in the NHL at some point. We are at the top of the league for that. Thing is, we have a lot of projects, but very few players who are almost ready to make the jump. Our depht will take a hit...

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