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Lebda put on waivers by Nashville

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Old
08-09-2011, 12:17 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
You can rationalize it however you want. But:

A) The NHL should not allow a trade that is tantamount to selling/buying a player for cash with no tangible hockey assets coming back. They outlawed cash being part of trades a long time ago, but this was basically an all-cash transaction. This issue still applies regardless of what NHL teams were involved in that type of trade -- so don't take it so personally & defensively.

B) The only time it makes sense to "dump" a player is if you're getting cap space back that allows you sign another player with that cap space. Budget space is different than cap space. Saying you've traded away a promising & valuable young player and getting nothing in return except "budget space" when you're going to be a floor team doesn't send a committment to winning message to NSH fans or the free agents they wish to attract or retain. It spells cheap-ass ownders.

If you think Poile, NSH players or non-delusional NSH fans don't care about that, you're just flat out wrong.
For once, a team was able to turn it's rabid fan support into some type of gain.

This is the way it should be. Somewhere between absolute parity regardless of fan support and the MLB.

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08-09-2011, 12:51 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
You can rationalize it however you want. But:

A) The NHL should not allow a trade that is tantamount to selling/buying a player for cash with no tangible hockey assets coming back. They outlawed cash being part of trades a long time ago, but this was basically an all-cash transaction. This issue still applies regardless of what NHL teams were involved in that type of trade -- so don't take it so personally & defensively.

B) The only time it makes sense to "dump" a player is if you're getting cap space back that allows you sign another player with that cap space. Budget space is different than cap space. Saying you've traded away a promising & valuable young player and getting nothing in return except "budget space" when you're going to be a floor team doesn't send a committment to winning message to NSH fans or the free agents they wish to attract or retain. It spells cheap-ass ownders.

If you think Poile, NSH players or non-delusional NSH fans don't care about that, you're just flat out wrong.
You know, wording speculation as if it's fact doesn't change it from speculation to fact. The fact remains that Poile has said the owners have given the go-ahead to spend more than we spent last season. Even if we exceed that by only a couple of hundred thousand dollars we are above the cap floor. This comment is supposed to be refuted by a random poster from Toronto saying Nashville will be a cap floor team? Your evidence is what? Our current salary... in August? Act as if you know anything more than we do, but it doesn't mean you do.

So what are you wanting? That the NHL write rules which require a team to spend the money immediately after clearing the cap space? Well, that doesn't work because a deal clearing the cap space necessary to making a future trade could come along well before the future trade does. That plan is flawed. They outlawed cash trades for the same reason that they implemented a cap and began revenue sharing. To create more parity between small market clubs and large market clubs.

But hey, if you want to take Lebda back just go ahead and send us Franson and Lombardi. Apparently the deal pisses you off for some reason that passes understanding.

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08-09-2011, 02:33 PM
  #128
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Why didn't they deal Fransson for offensive help? Or a gritty forward?

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08-09-2011, 02:35 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Why didn't they deal Fransson for offensive help? Or a gritty forward?
Yeah. I bet BB would have given up joey crabb for Lombardi + Franson..he's not much but he's definitely better than Lebda.

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08-09-2011, 03:07 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
You know, wording speculation as if it's fact doesn't change it from speculation to fact. The fact remains that Poile has said the owners have given the go-ahead to spend more than we spent last season. Even if we exceed that by only a couple of hundred thousand dollars we are above the cap floor. This comment is supposed to be refuted by a random poster from Toronto saying Nashville will be a cap floor team? Your evidence is what? Our current salary... in August? Act as if you know anything more than we do, but it doesn't mean you do.

So what are you wanting? That the NHL write rules which require a team to spend the money immediately after clearing the cap space? Well, that doesn't work because a deal clearing the cap space necessary to making a future trade could come along well before the future trade does. That plan is flawed. They outlawed cash trades for the same reason that they implemented a cap and began revenue sharing. To create more parity between small market clubs and large market clubs.

But hey, if you want to take Lebda back just go ahead and send us Franson and Lombardi. Apparently the deal pisses you off for some reason that passes understanding.
First of all, let me state that I am NOT a Leafs' fan, despite my location. I am a Pens' fan and a hockey fan in general, and have really enjoyed following the Preds for the last few years and in the playoffs.

The Preds have done a fantastic job developing players and drafting the BPA regardless of need. While Franson is inferior to Ellis, Blum & Weber, he would be a stud on a lot of other teams. The Preds had an opportunity to trade a promising young defenseman and get a quality young forward in return -- which is exactly what they need..

Instead, they "sold" Franson and got nothing in return. As I stated, this issue transcends the particular teams & players involved, because if the league outlawed cash as being the basis for a transaction, then they should outlaw deals that are fundamentally identical.

So they "sold" Franson to Leafs because that team was willing to take the salary of Lombardi (who doesn't even count against the cap if he's injured). So if you ignore the other cash (i.e. Lombardi) then the Preds traded away an affordable young, talented Dman making $800k for nothing, instead of getting a solid player in return.

Assuming Ellis & Blum are untouchables and part of NSH's future core (an idea reinforced by Franson's departure) and they plan to retain Weber & Suter, NSH blew the opportunity to trade their best tradeable asset on defense to address needs up front. That makes it a terrible hockey trade. As a hockey fan, that's unfortunate, because I don't care how good of a trade it was for the NSH owner's bank account.

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08-09-2011, 03:27 PM
  #131
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You are still basing all of this on assumption. You are assuming that Franson could have gotten a good, young forward in return. Somehow I doubt it. Preds fans thought the same thing, and I've even posted in favor of bundling Franson with other pieces for a forward return. The fact remains that Lombardi's contract would count against us (teams spending to or below the midpoint for revenue sharing purposes take into consideration real salary and not cap hit. Also, a player on LTIR does count against the cap until the team paying him spends to the cap. LTIR simply allows a team to spend the amount of that player's salary beyond the cap. For a non-cap ceiling team LTIR does nothing but open up a roster spot.) We had to get rid of it so that we could spend the money elsewhere. In order to get rid of it we had to give up another asset. Francis Bouillon, also on LTIR, likely wouldn't have gotten it done. We aren't going to throw in Klein or Blum. Ellis, Josi, and Ekholm all have better potential than Franson so it would make even less sense to send them. We aren't going to give up a forward of value because, well, we need forwards of value.

If a budget team clears $3.5m in salary per year for two years how is that not a hockey trade? Think about it this way... that $3.5m may never get used on a roster player. I hope it does, but I digress. BUT with that $3.5m you open up even more possibilities. Say your budget only allows for you to spend $3m on another forward. It's going to be hard to find a forward for that amount of money who will provide the team with something it doesn't already have. Now add an extra $3.5m to that. All of the sudden you can spend upwards of $6.5m, leaving open the possibility of a trade for a forward making anywhere from the original $3m all the way to $6.5m without having to deal anyone on the current roster. If you deal a roster player or two you only allow yourself even more options.

Your argument, unless I'm mistaken, has essentially been that this trade merely put money back into the pockets of the owners (which it didn't... it just saved them from having to spend it going forward. If I decide not to buy a soda that I had previously committed to buying it doesn't put an extra $1.25 into my pocket. It just lets me keep my original $1.25.), and you base that opinion on the fact that no moves have been made since. My argument is that there is still time for a move to be made, and even if one is never made it doesn't mean that the trade wasn't in anticipation of a deal.

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08-09-2011, 04:08 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Lebda has an amazing set of wheels, which he utilizes to get out of position much quicker than you'd think possible
I've never actually had coffee come out my nose until this moment. Pepsi? Sure. Milk? Youbetcha.

But never coffee.

Awesome.

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Old
08-09-2011, 04:14 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
First of all, let me state that I am NOT a Leafs' fan, despite my location. I am a Pens' fan and a hockey fan in general, and have really enjoyed following the Preds for the last few years and in the playoffs.

The Preds have done a fantastic job developing players and drafting the BPA regardless of need. While Franson is inferior to Ellis, Blum & Weber, he would be a stud on a lot of other teams. The Preds had an opportunity to trade a promising young defenseman and get a quality young forward in return -- which is exactly what they need..

Instead, they "sold" Franson and got nothing in return. As I stated, this issue transcends the particular teams & players involved, because if the league outlawed cash as being the basis for a transaction, then they should outlaw deals that are fundamentally identical.

So they "sold" Franson to Leafs because that team was willing to take the salary of Lombardi (who doesn't even count against the cap if he's injured). So if you ignore the other cash (i.e. Lombardi) then the Preds traded away an affordable young, talented Dman making $800k for nothing, instead of getting a solid player in return.

Assuming Ellis & Blum are untouchables and part of NSH's future core (an idea reinforced by Franson's departure) and they plan to retain Weber & Suter, NSH blew the opportunity to trade their best tradeable asset on defense to address needs up front. That makes it a terrible hockey trade. As a hockey fan, that's unfortunate, because I don't care how good of a trade it was for the NSH owner's bank account.
We had owners step in an commit to keeping a team here in Nashville, the said from the beginning they're not in it to make money they didn't want to lose a ton either.

So deals like this, keep us competitive and keep the team here.

That's the life of Predators fan. Sure sometimes it sucks but it's better than the AHL.

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Old
08-09-2011, 05:41 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
He was put on unconditional waivers, not regular waivers.
True I forgot. Did anyone confirm if Nashville can still buy him out with the whole buy-out period/Weber arbitration ordeal?

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Old
08-09-2011, 09:21 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Rivet52 View Post
True I forgot. Did anyone confirm if Nashville can still buy him out with the whole buy-out period/Weber arbitration ordeal?
Yes. Further review showed that simply having Kostitsyn file, they were eligible.

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08-09-2011, 09:42 PM
  #136
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i just loled there..

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Old
08-10-2011, 10:14 AM
  #137
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He was officially bought out this morning.

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