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Hockey Prospectus' Top 10 Rangers prospects

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Old
08-09-2011, 05:29 PM
  #26
MacTruck
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My list is better and I have zero hockey credability whatsover.

1. Tim Erixon
2. Chris Kreider
3. Christian Thomas
4. Dylan McIlrath
5. Carl Hagelin
6. J.T Miller
7. Ryan Bourque
8. Tomas Kundratek
9. Jesper Fasth
10. Shane McColgan

Was it that hard?


Last edited by MacTruck: 08-09-2011 at 05:42 PM.
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08-09-2011, 07:03 PM
  #27
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Seems a bit harsh on Kreider no?

"Kreider has all the raw hockey tools to be a first line forward if not an All-Star caliber forward, but his hockey sense is just so, so bad. On the 20-80 scale, I'd likely grade it anywhere from a 30 to a 35 grade. His decision-making is poor, his reads are poor, his positional play is poor, he consistently makes horrid passes and he just truly lacks a significant feel for the game."

I mean I know the guy's raw, but this seems a bit much.

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08-09-2011, 07:11 PM
  #28
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I thought Leslie wrote these things for NYR on this site?

Anyway the rankings are very different than ours thats for sure.
I'm not sure what the two have in common. Perhaps you were confused and thought that the article reference by the OP was somehow associated with HF Boards and Hockey's Future?

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08-09-2011, 07:46 PM
  #29
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A lot of players missing and a lot of head scratchers (Michael St. Croix is 4th, AHEAD OF JT MILLER. Uh wut?). Overall, they rank us 20th

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1038
This article ranks the Isles #2 and the Rangers #20 so that in itself shows how off this article is.

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08-11-2011, 01:23 PM
  #30
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While he might rate all of our prospects kinda low, especially in the projections. He brings some insight into the players strengths and weaknesses. And if he is off, just a bit in his reads,... then we have some damn good prospects. Things like hockey sense and defensive or offensive reads can be learned by talented players. And shouldn't be so harshly criticised as he has done.

So if you read between the lines of his rankings, you can get a good picture of our youth.

For example....

7. Christian Thomas, Right Wing
Date of birth: 05/26/1992
Age: 19
Height: 5'9''
Weight: 170
Shoots: Right
Statistics: 66 GP, 55 G, 99 P (Oshawa-OHL)
Acquired: Second round, 40th overall in 2010 by New York Rangers

The Good: Thomas is an above-average skater who took his speed to a new level this season and impressed many NHL sources in that regard. On top of good speed, he's also a quick, agile skater with a powerful first few steps. His feet are always moving due to a top-end work ethic and he plays a waterbug type of style where he flies and disturbs all over the ice. He's a very tough kid who gets a ton of praise for his character and intangibles, as he will go into the physical areas with the biggest of players and work his tail off to win those battles. Thomas has a plus shot and his 55 goals this season are a small testament to his goal-scoring abilities. One NHL executive said on Thomas that "Those 55 goals weren't tap-ins, as he was simply scoring from everywhere on the ice."

The Bad: Thomas has a tendency to overuse his best weapon, as he can be a bit of a chucker with the puck the second he gets an open lane. His hockey sense is questionable in his ability to anticipate the play or read the ice. Thomas has solid hands, but isn't a true creator and is more of a give-and-go player with the puck. His physical game likely won't get beyond fringe despite his great work ethic because of his smallish stature. Thomas also needs to work on his defensive game in terms of his reads.

Projection: An average third line forward who can likely project into a bottom six in some role and his shot will get him ice time on a second unit power play.


The good here seems very good. And the bad should hardly downgrade his poor projection to a 3rd line forward. His overuse of his best weapon would be a plus if he joined the Rangers. We definitely would like to see more pucks to the net. As for the other weaknesses, they don't seem to be all that bad. Needs work on D, who doesn't? Not a true creator, he not a center! But has solid hands and he can give and go which is what you want from a winger. Fringe physical game but great work ethic sounds like Cally. And he doesn't knock them over either.

You ask me half his weaknesses seem like strengths. Add them to the already great skills and attributes in the good and we have a hell of a talented prospect.

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08-11-2011, 01:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
While he might rate all of our prospects kinda low, especially in the projections. He brings some insight into the players strengths and weaknesses. And if he is off, just a bit in his reads,... then we have some damn good prospects. Things like hockey sense and defensive or offensive reads can be learned by talented players. And shouldn't be so harshly criticised as he has done.

So if you read between the lines of his rankings, you can get a good picture of our youth.

For example....

7. Christian Thomas, Right Wing
Date of birth: 05/26/1992
Age: 19
Height: 5'9''
Weight: 170
Shoots: Right
Statistics: 66 GP, 55 G, 99 P (Oshawa-OHL)
Acquired: Second round, 40th overall in 2010 by New York Rangers

The Good: Thomas is an above-average skater who took his speed to a new level this season and impressed many NHL sources in that regard. On top of good speed, he's also a quick, agile skater with a powerful first few steps. His feet are always moving due to a top-end work ethic and he plays a waterbug type of style where he flies and disturbs all over the ice. He's a very tough kid who gets a ton of praise for his character and intangibles, as he will go into the physical areas with the biggest of players and work his tail off to win those battles. Thomas has a plus shot and his 55 goals this season are a small testament to his goal-scoring abilities. One NHL executive said on Thomas that "Those 55 goals weren't tap-ins, as he was simply scoring from everywhere on the ice."

The Bad: Thomas has a tendency to overuse his best weapon, as he can be a bit of a chucker with the puck the second he gets an open lane. His hockey sense is questionable in his ability to anticipate the play or read the ice. Thomas has solid hands, but isn't a true creator and is more of a give-and-go player with the puck. His physical game likely won't get beyond fringe despite his great work ethic because of his smallish stature. Thomas also needs to work on his defensive game in terms of his reads.

Projection: An average third line forward who can likely project into a bottom six in some role and his shot will get him ice time on a second unit power play.


The good here seems very good. And the bad should hardly downgrade his poor projection to a 3rd line forward. His overuse of his best weapon would be a plus if he joined the Rangers. We definitely would like to see more pucks to the net. As for the other weaknesses, they don't seem to be all that bad. Needs work on D, who doesn't? Not a true creator, he not a center! But has solid hands and he can give and go which is what you want from a winger. Fringe physical game but great work ethic sounds like Cally. And he doesn't knock them over either.

You ask me half his weaknesses seem like strengths. Add them to the already great skills and attributes in the good and we have a hell of a talented prospect.
Exactly what I was thinking when I read this. There is pretty much nothing bad that can be said about Thomas' game except his size. How he ends up at #7 on this list is beyond me

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08-11-2011, 01:35 PM
  #32
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the guy is obviously a fool

1. Tim Erixon, Defense ..........sure
2. Chris Kreider, Left Wing .........sure
3. Dylan McIlrath, Defense ........I would put 4th
4. Michael St. Croix, Center ........ way to high/flip with Miller
5. Carl Hagelin, Left Wing ...........sure
6. Jesper Fasth, Right Wing ........sure
7. Christian Thomas, Right Wing.............I would put 3rd
8. Dale Weise, Right Wing .............sure
9. J.T. Miller, Center* ...............would have 5th
10. Ryan Bourque, Left Wing ..........sure/ flip a coin on Weise, Bourque, St Croix

all in all the guy is a dummy for having Thomas and Miller so low

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08-11-2011, 01:35 PM
  #33
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Those rankings are an absolute joke. Bottom line. Guy should be fired or removed from any access to publishing crap like this.

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Old
08-11-2011, 03:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Exactly what I was thinking when I read this. There is pretty much nothing bad that can be said about Thomas' game except his size. How he ends up at #7 on this list is beyond me
Not to mention the guy says he has a fringe physical game and is poor defensively, yet he will be a bottom 6 player. Has he ever watched hockey before?

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08-11-2011, 03:32 PM
  #35
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Hockey Prospectus has always been full of **** and the trend continues.

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Old
08-11-2011, 04:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Exactly what I was thinking when I read this. There is pretty much nothing bad that can be said about Thomas' game except his size. How he ends up at #7 on this list is beyond me
There is a ton of good things you can say about Christian Thomas.

But I do not think people on here has much perspective on him. What's said paints a default picture IMHO.

Here is why. No matter what he is small, physically he is far from say a Callhan, and my bet is that will be the case when he gets older too. He falls into the Dawes cathegory, a tad less stocky but only a tad taller, not weak, but small.

He is also, in lack of better words, from a offensive perspective, a one dimensional sniper.

If you look at his offensive abilities, this kid is clutch and game, but definitely no wonder kid or something like that.

Thats what you have. And how successful are kids like that on avg in the NHL? Thats the question you got to ask yourself. What do we have. What does that result in.

Its hard to answer that question.

No matter how his goals are described, and while some of them comes from distance when he is using his slapper from the point, he is a kid who has to go to work in the dirty areas in the NHL day after day after day. Thats just tough. Its not the same thing as in the OHL.

I love the pick of Thomas. I think he gives you great value for a 2nd round pick. I think his upside might be compared to say a Danny Briere (worse playmaking ability, better attitude). But at the same time, to be realistic, its far from given that he even makes it to the NHL, and if, its probably the most likely scenario that he has like a Prucha/Dawes type of career. We should be optimistic and what not. But I don't agree that there is reason to rank Thomas 3rd on our intern prospect ranking, other kids we have can become just as good and has just as high potential. If not higher.

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08-11-2011, 05:51 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There is a ton of good things you can say about Christian Thomas.

But I do not think people on here has much perspective on him. What's said paints a default picture IMHO.

Here is why. No matter what he is small, physically he is far from say a Callhan, and my bet is that will be the case when he gets older too. He falls into the Dawes cathegory, a tad less stocky but only a tad taller, not weak, but small.

He is also, in lack of better words, from a offensive perspective, a one dimensional sniper.

If you look at his offensive abilities, this kid is clutch and game, but definitely no wonder kid or something like that.

Thats what you have. And how successful are kids like that on avg in the NHL? Thats the question you got to ask yourself. What do we have. What does that result in.

Its hard to answer that question.

No matter how his goals are described, and while some of them comes from distance when he is using his slapper from the point, he is a kid who has to go to work in the dirty areas in the NHL day after day after day. Thats just tough. Its not the same thing as in the OHL.

I love the pick of Thomas. I think he gives you great value for a 2nd round pick. I think his upside might be compared to say a Danny Briere (worse playmaking ability, better attitude). But at the same time, to be realistic, its far from given that he even makes it to the NHL, and if, its probably the most likely scenario that he has like a Prucha/Dawes type of career. We should be optimistic and what not. But I don't agree that there is reason to rank Thomas 3rd on our intern prospect ranking, other kids we have can become just as good and has just as high potential. If not higher.
Interesting post.. However I have full confidence that Gordie Clark knows what he is doing by drafting a small player such as Thomas in the second round. Gordie has a great track record.

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08-11-2011, 06:32 PM
  #38
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It's funny to see fans who have never seen a player play belittling anyone's predictions on the matter.

I don't know if the writer will turn out to me more accurate than those criticizing him, but from reading what he wrote he seems to have a far greater depth of knowledge about these players, whether it be first-hand or not, than most of the posters goofing on him.

Also, those lambasting him don't seem to understand that if it was that easy to predict who will turn out to be what, every GM would make the exact right pick in every round. Since we know that this isn't even close to the truth, it's hysterical that people posting here think they know the real "truth" about all of this.

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08-11-2011, 06:33 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I'm not sure what the two have in common. Perhaps you were confused and thought that the article reference by the OP was somehow associated with HF Boards and Hockey's Future?
I didn't realize it was another site. The format of the article is very similar to HF style write ups, sorry for the mistake.

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08-12-2011, 06:13 AM
  #40
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Interesting post.. However I have full confidence that Gordie Clark knows what he is doing by drafting a small player such as Thomas in the second round. Gordie has a great track record.
Of course.

But there just isn't kids around to get great players all the time in the second round.

If that were the case, and it was all up to Gordie, his second round pick Ethan Werek would still be in the org and ahead of Thomas since he was picked earlier in the 2nd round.

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08-12-2011, 10:28 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
It's funny to see fans who have never seen a player play belittling anyone's predictions on the matter.

I don't know if the writer will turn out to me more accurate than those criticizing him, but from reading what he wrote he seems to have a far greater depth of knowledge about these players, whether it be first-hand or not, than most of the posters goofing on him.

Also, those lambasting him don't seem to understand that if it was that easy to predict who will turn out to be what, every GM would make the exact right pick in every round. Since we know that this isn't even close to the truth, it's hysterical that people posting here think they know the real "truth" about all of this.
Good post.

Maybe these rankings and this guy's analysis will turn out to be "a joke." But, to me, the bigger joke is people weighing in on this like theyre some sort of expert - like they've regularly watched these prospects enough to make a legitimate judgment and aren't just drinking the organizational kool-aid.

Ive seen Chris Kreider play about 3 games, and havent seen any other prospect in our top 10 play 1 minute of hockey. I freely admit that...along with the fact that I'll make my judgment on these players when/if they make it to the Rangers and I can actually watch them.

My apologies to the small handful of posters that actually know what they're talking about, because there are a couple of you.

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Old
08-12-2011, 10:33 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
It's funny to see fans who have never seen a player play belittling anyone's predictions on the matter.

I don't know if the writer will turn out to me more accurate than those criticizing him, but from reading what he wrote he seems to have a far greater depth of knowledge about these players, whether it be first-hand or not, than most of the posters goofing on him.

Also, those lambasting him don't seem to understand that if it was that easy to predict who will turn out to be what, every GM would make the exact right pick in every round. Since we know that this isn't even close to the truth, it's hysterical that people posting here think they know the real "truth" about all of this.
No it's because this jack-off is the only person to make rankings this retarded. When Gordie Clark and others brag about Kreider's hockey sense, and then this guy says that it is god awful, you realize this guy doesn't know **** about what he's saying. I'm gonna take Gordie's word over some Pronman guy that has us ranked 20th and the Isles 2nd, when in reality us and the Isles are VERY similar. If the Isles are 2nd, we should be 4th or 5th.

Also, St Croix ranked 4th and Thomas ranked 7th? give me a break.

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08-12-2011, 11:00 AM
  #43
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No it's because this jack-off is the only person to make rankings this retarded. When Gordie Clark and others brag about Kreider's hockey sense, and then this guy says that it is god awful, you realize this guy doesn't know **** about what he's saying. I'm gonna take Gordie's word over some Pronman guy that has us ranked 20th and the Isles 2nd, when in reality us and the Isles are VERY similar. If the Isles are 2nd, we should be 4th or 5th.

Also, St Croix ranked 4th and Thomas ranked 7th? give me a break.
Your attitude, name, and pretense of knowledge is exactly what I was talking about.

Predicting outcome of hockey prospects is pure speculation, yet you believe it is as easy as believing one person who likes the players he picked.

Have you ever heard a personnel guy say he made mistakes? If so, please cite me an example.

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08-12-2011, 11:47 AM
  #44
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I, for one, think the questions surrounding Kreider are a concern based off of countless prospects before him.

When you hear about a guy who has all these physical tools, then puts up underwhelming numbers, and the peanut gallery justifies it as "learning the game," it turns out badly more times than it doesnt - with hockey sense being the main issue.

Derek Stepan isnt the fastest or the strongest guy in the world, but he had a successful rookie season because hes very, very smart when it comes to the game. You can see it easily in his decision making.

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08-12-2011, 12:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Your attitude, name, and pretense of knowledge is exactly what I was talking about.

Predicting outcome of hockey prospects is pure speculation, yet you believe it is as easy as believing one person who likes the players he picked.

Have you ever heard a personnel guy say he made mistakes? If so, please cite me an example.
My name? LOL cuz I was a fan of his when he was at Michigan and I like him. My name implies he is a future star?... And when it comes to Clark and Gorton's resumes, I'll take theirs over Pronman's anyday. Not that your analysis is wrong, but it isn't a little suspicious when this is the only guy who thinks Kreider has bad hockey sense, and he ranks Thomas as our 7th best, when the whole world knows he is #3

Also, the Red Wings are #1? Lmfao, they've been drafting outside the top 20 for the last decade and are easily the oldest team in Hockey.

How the Oilers aren't #1 or at least top 5 is frightening. He has them where? Outside the top 15? Jesus.

Like I said, Isles at #2 and us at #20 makes absolutely NO sense. If they are 2, we are 5. If we are 20, they are 17. I'm not just complaining about our ranking. His whole compilation is retarded as can be.

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08-12-2011, 12:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
It's funny to see fans who have never seen a player play belittling anyone's predictions on the matter.

I don't know if the writer will turn out to me more accurate than those criticizing him, but from reading what he wrote he seems to have a far greater depth of knowledge about these players, whether it be first-hand or not, than most of the posters goofing on him.

Also, those lambasting him don't seem to understand that if it was that easy to predict who will turn out to be what, every GM would make the exact right pick in every round. Since we know that this isn't even close to the truth, it's hysterical that people posting here think they know the real "truth" about all of this.
Well most scouts and writers pick the rangers Prospects in the 7-10 range, and most of our posters have a pretty decent knowledge of our prospects. So to come on here and rip us over some fool who clearly has no clue what he is talking about is ridiculous

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08-12-2011, 01:00 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BOXPLAY View Post
Well most scouts and writers pick the rangers Prospects in the 7-10 range, and mostof our posters have a pretty decent knowledge of our prospects. So to come on here and rip us over some fool who clearly has no clue what he is talking about is ridiculous
I disagree.

Most of our posters have a knowledge of the fluff that the organization says about the prospects they picked.

That, and having legitimate knowledge about how the prospects are progressing are 2 different things

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08-12-2011, 01:20 PM
  #48
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I disagree.

Most of our posters have a knowledge of the fluff that the organization says about the prospects they picked.

That, and having legitimate knowledge about how the prospects are progressing are 2 different things
ok true saying most was a lil much i agree, but i have followed Pronman on twitter for a while and i can tell you this guy changes his opinions on prospects more often than Renney changes line combos and with no good reason behind it. Im not here to say he ranked us poorly and im pissed so im here to complain but just looking at where he ranked every team and there prospects are way off.

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08-12-2011, 01:38 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
My name? LOL cuz I was a fan of his when he was at Michigan and I like him. My name implies he is a future star?... And when it comes to Clark and Gorton's resumes, I'll take theirs over Pronman's anyday. Not that your analysis is wrong, but it isn't a little suspicious when this is the only guy who thinks Kreider has bad hockey sense, and he ranks Thomas as our 7th best, when the whole world knows he is #3

Also, the Red Wings are #1? Lmfao, they've been drafting outside the top 20 for the last decade and are easily the oldest team in Hockey.

How the Oilers aren't #1 or at least top 5 is frightening. He has them where? Outside the top 15? Jesus.

Like I said, Isles at #2 and us at #20 makes absolutely NO sense. If they are 2, we are 5. If we are 20, they are 17. I'm not just complaining about our ranking. His whole compilation is retarded as can be.
Is it possible that Pronman knows more than you?

Is it possible that Detroit and the Islanders have better players coming than the Rangers?

To answer no is absurd, because none of us know.

Again, have you ever heard anyone denigrate their own prospects?

Using history as a guide it is far from impossible that Detroit has excellent players on the horizon.


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08-12-2011, 01:39 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BOXPLAY View Post
Well most scouts and writers pick the rangers Prospects in the 7-10 range, and most of our posters have a pretty decent knowledge of our prospects. So to come on here and rip us over some fool who clearly has no clue what he is talking about is ridiculous
On what do you base that the writer is a fool and that posters here are better at predicting the future?

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