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Ron Wilson named assistant coach to Hamilton Bulldogs

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08-09-2011, 10:19 PM
  #26
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I have a very vague memory of him...how is he as a coach? Has he already worked with Jodoin?

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08-09-2011, 11:49 PM
  #27
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I love that he has a sense of loyalty to the Bulldogs and he had a very successful tenure there with a rather mediocre Bulldogs squad at times.

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08-10-2011, 08:01 AM
  #28
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If it was the real Ron Wilson I'd say Burke made the smartest decision he's made since joining up with the Leafs. He needs to let RW go.

Then again in a decade this guy could become the "real" Ron Wilson

Doesn't look like Leafs Ron Wilson will have an NHL job ever again after the laughs.

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08-10-2011, 08:17 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
If it was the real Ron Wilson I'd say Burke made the smartest decision he's made since joining up with the Leafs. He needs to let RW go.

Then again in a decade this guy could become the "real" Ron Wilson

Doesn't look like Leafs Ron Wilson will have an NHL job ever again after the laughs.
This is just Leafs bashing without merit. Ron Wilson is one of a few coaches who has 600 wins. While he is a lousy fit for a young Toronto team, the coaching ranks are a pretty close group and RW will get another chance again. Look at how many times other good coaches have been recycled past their prime, Mike Keenan for example.

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08-10-2011, 08:28 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
This is just Leafs bashing without merit. Ron Wilson is one of a few coaches who has 600 wins. While he is a lousy fit for a young Toronto team, the coaching ranks are a pretty close group and RW will get another chance again. Look at how many times other good coaches have been recycled past their prime, Mike Keenan for example.
I disagree. 40% of the players voted him the worst coach in the NHL. That has more to do with how he is as a coach than the team he's playing for.

To me that is plenty of merit. I don't even hate the leafs but it's true the guy is washed up and even a lot of his previous players on other teams hated him as a coach. To be a good coach players don't have to like you as a person but they have to believe in your coaching. I feel it's pretty evident that isn't the case or he wouldn't have been voted by a landslide. He has a tremendous amount of trouble getting players to "buy in" as they say.

EDIT: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...d-least-liked/

Sorry it was only 24% but still that's pretty ridiculous no less. I guess when you have to vote for somebody... but why would they choose the guy with 600+ wins? Plus they interviewed some players around the time that it happened, not Leafs players of course. And a lot of them didn't have many good things to say. Brad May even said the team was thrilled when he left.... pretty sure they didn't like him, but also pretty sure a lot of it had to do with hockey not just personality differences. I'm not saying he didn't earn those 600+ wins, to be honest I'm too lazy to go dig up the teams he had etc. But having 600+ wins only means people were willing to employ you. It doesn't mean the teams you coached bought into your system and/or liked you as a coach. Maybe he had really good teams. Teams get wins in spite of bad coaching about as often as teams get losses in spite of good coaching. At the end of the day the product on the ice will definitely help even the worst coaches get wins.

Plus it wasn't really senseless leaf bashing. The leafs would be better off with a new coach even you agree he isn't a good fit there. What it really boils down to is me saying he won't get another chance and you saying he will. It's really all just opinion but if I had to bet even if he does get another chance the success will be heavily dependent on the team he gets not his coaching skills. A coach like Lindy Ruff can even make a fairly low end team look good. JM has done the same considering our injuries the past couple seasons.


Last edited by neofury*: 08-10-2011 at 08:37 AM.
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08-10-2011, 08:43 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs23 View Post
People have short memories, he coached in Hamilton most of the 2000's & even played for the Habs in 94. So yeah....Welcome back!

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=5760
Now I'm more confused. I though it was the "Ron Wilson" of the Leafs who played with us..

Did the other Ron Wilson also played?

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08-10-2011, 08:46 AM
  #32
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Now I'm more confused. I though it was the "Ron Wilson" of the Leafs who played with us..

Did the other Ron Wilson also played?
This guy had a better player career than Toronto's Ron Wilson who never played for us. But thus far Toronto's RW has had a better coaching career.

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08-10-2011, 08:46 AM
  #33
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I disagree. 40% of the players voted him the worst coach in the NHL. That has more to do with how he is as a coach than the team he's playing for.

But having 600+ wins only means people were willing to employ you. It doesn't mean the teams you coached bought into your system and/or liked you as a coach. At the end of the day the product on the ice will definitely help even the worst coaches get wins.
Being hated doesn't equal being a bad coach. I'm pretty sure Iron Mike was a lot more hated when he was in his prime and a better coach than in his latter years.

But the employability part was my point, he will very likely get another shot, yea he had some good teams in SJ but you don't get to the NHL and put up 600+ wins by luck and riding coat tails.

Your also forgetting that only last year he coached USA to within minutes of defeating powerhouse Canada for the Gold medal and took home the silver. The USA group was excellently coached, it wasn't the USA players stepping up despite horrible coaching.

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08-10-2011, 08:47 AM
  #34
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Being hated doesn't equal being a bad coach. I'm pretty sure Iron Mike was a lot more hated when he was in his prime and a better coach than in his latter years.

But the employability part was my point, he will very likely get another shot, yea he had some good teams in SJ but you don't get to the NHL and put up 600+ wins by luck and riding coat tails.

Your also forgetting that only last year he coached USA to within minutes of defeating powerhouse Canada for the Gold medal and took home the silver. The USA group was excellently coached, it wasn't the USA players stepping up despite horrible coaching.
Agreed but they obviously wanted him out due to his bad coaching. There are plenty of coaches hated by their players but due to being good coaches are respected and they don't wish them gone. And that's the point really. Most players he's ever coached have wanted him gone based on his coaching. They didn't like him as a coach or as a person. You don't get 24% of the vote just by being a dick, the Sens coach was horrible last year and he didn't even win the vote. Reason being, he had less to work with than Wilson did and Wilson achieved a borderline similar result.

Not denying he might get another shot, but he also might not. He has a track record for being hated enough that players don't want to play for him. Part of coaching is that balance, you can be hated but not enough to the point where players won't buy into your coaching and simply don't want to show up to play for you. Keenan was hated sure but he's also a proven better coach and is far more respected in the coaching department. For one he actually has a cup, I highly doubt he got it by the players playing badly for him. For two in general even when one or two players can't handle his coaching methods the rest of the team does. Also when I look up the teams Wilson had it's really no wonder he's had 600 wins. I don't doubt even Carbonneau given the same teams could have done equivalent. (And I'm not a fan of Carb)

Only thing is you are right he probably will get recycled but I'm just saying given his reputation maybe he won't. Keenan has a cup, multiple finals appearances. He should not be compared to Wilson. Guy has been to the finals once and lost that's it. JM is the same except difference being our team seems to excel given the amount of injuries and limitations we've had the last two years. Wilson's team does the exact opposite they buckle.

You also leave out the fact that USA was a powerhouse team too. Let's not kid ourselves this isn't the 70s anymore. USA is a damn good team, not as good as Canada maybe but good enough to beat us, therefore in the same league.

I never debated that Wilson could coach a heavily stacked team. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a good coach though. Like I said good teams win in spite of bad coaching all the time. Bad teams can even overachieve cause of good coaching no denying it but at the end of the day the most important aspect is what you have on the ice. Was USA not a really good team? Of course they were. They were solid. There's gotta be more to it than "he's a dick" why he got 24% of the vote. Players will play for a good coach in spite of them being a dick.


Last edited by neofury*: 08-10-2011 at 09:02 AM.
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Old
08-10-2011, 08:54 AM
  #35
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I don't think the Leafs would be greatly better with another coach, RW isn't ruining their development. I don't think another coach would have been worth firing and paying RW $800 000 or whatever he makes. They were always going to be on the outside looking in, so no point in bringing in a young unknown coach at that point.

If I was Burke, from a hockey & GM standpoint, I would have probably kept him as well because the other options were not that much better for a losing squad. But I almost guarantee he doesn't get extended unless he makes the playoffs this year.

Leafs only improving to 9thish place is Burke's fault but it will be the perfect time to use RW as the scapegoat and make your first coaching change.

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08-10-2011, 09:01 AM
  #36
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I don't think the Leafs would be greatly better with another coach, RW isn't ruining their development. I don't think another coach would have been worth firing and paying RW $800 000 or whatever he makes. They were always going to be on the outside looking in, so no point in bringing in a young unknown coach at that point.

If I was Burke, from a hockey & GM standpoint, I would have probably kept him as well because the other options were not that much better for a losing squad. But I almost guarantee he doesn't get extended unless he makes the playoffs this year.

Leafs only improving to 9thish place is Burke's fault but it will be the perfect time to use RW as the scapegoat and make your first coaching change.
Fair enough but I do think they'd improve slightly with a better coach, one whose maybe a better fit.

If it's the difference between a few players playing mediocre or good it could be all the difference needed. In Burke's defense though I just don't think anyone wants to sign there. You don't give up two lottery picks for Kessel because UFA's are lining up around the block.

At the end of the day his coaching staff has to do the best with what he can assemble. I agree that they'll be 9thish place and that a part of the problem is him but in his defense he seems handcuffed. Nobody wants to play there (or so it seems) and he's actually gone above and beyond to trade for guys who potentially do (RFA, signed, etc)

In that respect I think he's doing alright. He needs to ice something somewhat competitive. I just don't think Wilson is a fit in TO. Plus lets face it I don't care who was behind the bench, I highly doubt the USA team players were going to not show up in the Olympics just because they don't like the coach. These guys are such high end athletes that it's definitely an area where you'll see guys stepping up to the max even if they absolutely despise the coach. Who wants to give up their olympic dreams cause they don't like a coach? In the NHL you can get traded or the coach gets fired eventually.

EDIT: wow did we ever go OT...

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08-10-2011, 09:23 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
You don't get 24% of the vote just by being a dick, the Sens coach was horrible last year and he didn't even win the vote. Reason being, he had less to work with than Wilson did and Wilson achieved a borderline similar result.

You also leave out the fact that USA was a powerhouse team too. Let's not kid ourselves this isn't the 70s anymore. USA is a damn good team, not as good as Canada maybe but good enough to beat us, therefore in the same league.
Cory Clouston isn't a dick, he's a players coach, which is why he isn't on the hated list even though he's probably the worst coach inthe NHL. The NHL is about winning and you don't win by getting your most talented players to hate you. Heatly is probably the most one dimensional sniper in the league but he worked amazingly along side Spezza and Heatly

During the last season when Heatly was disgruntled, all the fans chose Clouston because he got the scrubs to elevate their play. Well lok at the last 2 years, Clouston couldn't get jack **** out of his most talented (note: not best, Spezza is 5 times the player Kovalev is) but the reality is you have to get your talented players to buy into your system as well.

I'm sure after a couple years of losing, I'm sure Spezza doesn't think so highly of Clouston when he remembers those glory years prior to Clouston.

Clouston doesn't belong in the NHL.

Back to RW, I think USA over achieved with RW, other teams should have been in the finals if you look at the talent on paper.

As for your OT comment, it's summer and no Habs controversies (luckily), so I'l gladly take any intelligent hockey discussion at this point, heck I've even been in the Ek thread lol

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08-10-2011, 09:47 AM
  #38
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So, one Ron Wilson coaches a developing collection of minor-league players in an Ontario city with long-suffering fans desperate for an NHL-caliber team and ultimately ends up giving the Habs points as a main part of his job, and the other coaches the Bulldogs.
Well played

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Old
08-10-2011, 09:51 AM
  #39
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Ugh, I was hoping this was THE Ron Wilson..


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08-10-2011, 10:02 AM
  #40
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I have a very vague memory of him...how is he as a coach? Has he already worked with Jodoin?
As a Dogs fan this is awful. To watch Mad Dog fall asleep on the bench and miss line changes for a year and then watch Boucher and Lacroix was like night and day. Wilson has been a coach (mostly assistant) in the AHL for as long as he has for a reason. Can't see anything positive from this there must have been something better out there.

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08-10-2011, 10:49 AM
  #41
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This Wilson has probably the CH tatooted on his chest. he was drafted by the Habs and played at AHL level and few games with the Habs too. he also coached Hamilton a little while back, and was assistant to Lever.

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08-12-2011, 08:04 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I don't think the Leafs would be greatly better with another coach, RW isn't ruining their development. I don't think another coach would have been worth firing and paying RW $800 000 or whatever he makes. They were always going to be on the outside looking in, so no point in bringing in a young unknown coach at that point.

If I was Burke, from a hockey & GM standpoint, I would have probably kept him as well because the other options were not that much better for a losing squad. But I almost guarantee he doesn't get extended unless he makes the playoffs this year.

Leafs only improving to 9thish place is Burke's fault but it will be the perfect time to use RW as the scapegoat and make your first coaching change.
Well this is Ronnie's last chance to see if he can perform well, ever since he coached the numbers on the pp and pk have been always in the bottom 10. This year Burkie fired those long time assistant coaches and replaced them with new ones. If Wilson fails at making the playoffs he's done.

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08-12-2011, 09:25 AM
  #43
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Well this is Ronnie's last chance to see if he can perform well, ever since he coached the numbers on the pp and pk have been always in the bottom 10. This year Burkie fired those long time assistant coaches and replaced them with new ones. If Wilson fails at making the playoffs he's done.
Problem is this year I think he's in a situation that he's borderline destined to fail in. Not because the leafs are a bad team but because the east is a tough conference this year. I think if two favored teams have severe injury problems to the point of playing like 9th and 10th place teams the Leafs, Jets and Panthers will actually have a shot. Carolina because of Ward will always have that glimmer of hope. Ward+Staal can't go wrong.

So it's a situation where the chance might never even really be there for them, they're getting better but I don't think they have a good enough team to compete for 8th place barring some very bad injuries to other teams. It's possible though. I see them finishing 9th or 10th. That being said if Lombardi comes back to form I could see them being great in the future. Would have loved to have a healthy Lombardi

There are a lot of what if's. They do have a chance I just think that chance is small. In their division: Thomas(or Rask), Price, Miller. All three of these teams play systems that are good defensively thus making their already at worst decent D corps look great. Throw in a top 5 goalie in the NHL.. it's going to be tough for the defensive leafs team to compete with weaker coaching, weaker goaltending (Reimer could be gold though who knows), solid D but weaker forwards.

They'll steal some games but I think those three goalies will steal a huge portion of those 18 total games from them. This division got really tough to play in imo. Luckily we all have 6 free wins in Ottawa I think Price Miller and Thomas can be relied on to win at least half those games, at the very least.

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