HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Do most people actually believe the Oilers are tanking?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-09-2011, 02:46 AM
  #126
DJENTLEMAN
INTJ
 
DJENTLEMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 2,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
It started with a team that was almost identical to one that choked away a playoff spot in the previous March. 500+ man games to injuries that year. We obviously did not tank for Taylor Hall.

But they didn't make much effort to improve that summer. Why would they? They cleared spots for younger players and started focusing on the future. They outwardly used words like "rebuild", and promoted a coach who they felt was better at teaching younger players than Pat Quinn.

Is "not going out of your way to add players and improve" tanking? To me, tanking is flushing assets at the 11th hour to lose games and get a high pick. The Oilers have never done that.
Exactly. You can also bet your sweet ass that the players themselves don't give up / tank on the ice.

When the management of a team comes out and says rebuild when everyone knows that would be the best plan going forward, you know they're being realistic instead of fooling everyone with a delusional 're-tooling' effort.


Last edited by DJENTLEMAN: 08-09-2011 at 10:48 PM.
DJENTLEMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 07:02 PM
  #127
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
Those games were hard to watch. Remember when the Caps iced a forward line comprised entirely of minor league defensemen? I forget who all was on it, but Jason Doig was involved, and that's never a good sign.
I think Jean-Luc Grand Pierre was involved somewhere.




We kept putting Kelly Buchberger out on the powerplay to get him a goal that season. He finally got one second to last game against Atlanta on a Conklin-like giveaway and empty net. That game I remember because Atlanta clearly weren't trying, either. Their whole game plan was centered around Ilya Kovalchuk getting the puck to try for the Richard. He had like 16 shots that game, and didn't pass the puck or drop behind the red line once. He finally scored with 6 seconds left to ruin the shutout.


Last edited by clefty: 08-09-2011 at 07:16 PM.
clefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 08:02 PM
  #128
Fat Jughead
Registered User
 
Fat Jughead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Milbury
Country: United States
Posts: 1,967
vCash: 500
I wish that were the case. I've watched prolly 80% of their games over the last 2 seasons, and I'm pretty sure they're trying.

Don't sweat it guys. Redemption is at hand. At the very least, I think you guys are gonna kick the crap outta teams like the Canucks...physically I mean. Not so much on the scoreboard just yet, unless Renney can sort this defense out.

Started to look respectable at the end of last year. I'm looking forward to seeing what they put together this year.

Fat Jughead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 08:13 PM
  #129
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,725
vCash: 500
yes, the Oilers are clearly tanking.


Are we all unaware of the painfully obvious reality that Steve Tambelinni put a gypsy hex on Whitney, Hall, Gagner, Hemsky, Horcoff etc just so we could ice a team that featured the worst first line of all time? Not to mention, he even traded away our star in Dustin Penner to lock up last place.

But the biggest one was drugging Sheldon Souray to steal all of his ability, just to weaken the team a little bit. That was key in this tank.


Of course, it was all a giant scam to draft first in a low rated draft.

Mr Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 09:30 PM
  #130
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,228
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Trolt;35765147]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus View Post

The pres winner implies that a team can end up first while suffering more from injuries from the oilers, which finished 29 places behind it. So he's pointing out that the oiler's level of injuries doesn't explain how badly they performed.
Anyone who says injuries weren't a major reason for the Oilers being so bad these last two years is simply wrong. Would they have been in the playoffs had they been healthy? Heck no, but when you lose your best player for over half of the season, your only top pair defenseman for three quarters of the season, and almost every significant player on your team for extended periods of time. You mention the Canuck man games, well if those man games came out in the form of the Sedins, Luongo, Edler, Hamhuis, instead of role players, then I'll consider their man games to be as important as the ones the Oilers lost.

zeus3007* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 10:44 PM
  #131
Zen Arcade
eat the record cover
 
Zen Arcade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 14,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
I think Jean-Luc Grand Pierre was involved somewhere.




We kept putting Kelly Buchberger out on the powerplay to get him a goal that season. He finally got one second to last game against Atlanta on a Conklin-like giveaway and empty net. That game I remember because Atlanta clearly weren't trying, either. Their whole game plan was centered around Ilya Kovalchuk getting the puck to try for the Richard. He had like 16 shots that game, and didn't pass the puck or drop behind the red line once. He finally scored with 6 seconds left to ruin the shutout.
I was at the game where Buchberger finally got a point that year. It was, I believe, a 3-0 win against Dallas. J.S. Aubin played out of his mind in that game for some odd reason. Buchberger got a standing ovation when he was announced as the secondary assist for the last goal. It was actually pretty cool. There are a lot of cool little moments from the bad years that I still remember now. Probably just to block out the 99% that was absolutely soul crushing.

Zen Arcade is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 10:45 PM
  #132
ShyCheetah
Registered User
 
ShyCheetah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caprica City,Caprica
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Are the Oiler players tanking it on the ice? No.

Is the Oiler organization tanking by deliberately not icing a competitive team? Absolutely.

Many organizations have done it before. The Penguins did it twice - first to get Lemieux and then to get Crosby. The Nordiques did it to get Lindros, failed to get him, but traded his rights for a group of talented players. The Senators did it to get Daigle, who was hyped almost to the level of Lemieux by draft time. The Kings did it to get Stamkos, and walked away with Doughty. It happens quite a bit. Just as there is a race to finish first and secure the home-ice advantage for the playoffs, there's also usually a race to finish dead last and secure the best chance for the first pick in the draft.
I need to read no further. This is my perception of things. Except the Pens didn't have to tank for Crosby, he was more of a gift from the league. The league needs to adapt the NBA lottery system. No worries, those tanking teams can still pick at the top of rounds 2-7.

Shy

ShyCheetah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 10:52 PM
  #133
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
no, they just really do suck that bad. now that they pretty much have their top six of the future in hall, rnh, mps, omark, and eberle, i'd say they'll be done trading off guys now and start to actually build the team.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-09-2011, 11:44 PM
  #134
achtungbaby
Registered User
 
achtungbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post
no, they just really do suck that bad. now that they pretty much have their top six of the future in hall, rnh, mps, omark, and eberle, i'd say they'll be done trading off guys now and start to actually build the team.
There's not a whole lot left to trade anyways, unless we're talking about an inability to resign Hemsky. Horcoff and Rehab aren't going anywhere for obvious reasons and what would be left on defence if Whitney got traded? Any trades we see from the Oilers should be like the Cogliano deal where a guy gets moved who didn't fit into their plans (or roster), or a 3 for 1 deal with the Oilers getting a guy better than the sum of the parts given up (excluding potential).

The rebuild has to end sometime, Hall is going to be thinking about his 2nd contract soon and is going to want to see a sign from management that they are committed to building a winning team. Almost making the playoffs will be a huge boost to that. That said, I pretty much expect them to finish in the bottom 6 for one more season.

achtungbaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 12:08 AM
  #135
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,740
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
yes, the Oilers are clearly tanking.


Are we all unaware of the painfully obvious reality that Steve Tambelinni put a gypsy hex on Whitney, Hall, Gagner, Hemsky, Horcoff etc just so we could ice a team that featured the worst first line of all time? Not to mention, he even traded away our star in Dustin Penner to lock up last place.

But the biggest one was drugging Sheldon Souray to steal all of his ability, just to weaken the team a little bit. That was key in this tank.


Of course, it was all a giant scam to draft first in a low rated draft.
Shhh... that's supposed to be a secret!

CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 03:26 PM
  #136
Jamin
Registered User
 
Jamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquiace View Post
Oh really?

Bad luck is when you get struck by lightning driving in your car. Getting struck by lightning while standing on a tree in a thunderstorm, swinging a golf club is begging for it.

Many teams deal with devastating injuries. As of March of 2011, Edmonton was ranked 13th in man games lost (3.03/g). 12 other teams had more and more devastating kinds of injuries. Of the 12 who had more, 5 made the playoffs including the pres winner. There are lots of things you can say lead to them finishing last, but bad luck and injuries aren't one of them.

The top 10 in MGL/G were: (Bolded are playoff teams)

NYI (6.92/g)
Colorado (5.35/g)
New Jersey (5.18/g)
Minnesota (4.97/g)
Calgary (4.24/g)
Nashville (4.21/g)
Vancouver (4.19)
Pittsburgh (4.15/g)
St. Louis (3.99/g)
NY Rangers (3.97/g)

Source:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1955920/
And the year before when they led the NHL? Well that doesnt help your oppinion so just ignore it and focus on one season. Alot of teams spend to the cap, lead the league in injuries just to draft Hall

Jamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 03:35 PM
  #137
Jamin
Registered User
 
Jamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auger View Post
Rebuild is a euphemism for tank. Think about it logically for one second, you know you can't win, so why spend to the cap (14mil from the cap)? Im not bashing on you for tanking, it has to be done, I just find it hilarious that you're trying to defend yourselves by saying you're not. The oilers are not trying to ice a competitive team as of right now, for example you guys traded Penner for Teubert and picks. You want to win in the future by trading for younger talent and drafting higher. Fans might not want to acknowledge that they're tanking, but management certainly seems to think so.

The oilers are also a strong hockey market, you guys have showed it over the last 2 years. The fans will still buy merchandise and attend games even if you finish last. I honestly don't see what's so bad about tanking. You guys need to get better and drafting high is the fastest way. How a team that is rebuilding can be so bad as to finish last 2 times in a row and most likely be a bottom 5 pick this year is beyond me. These "perpetually" bad teams all have problems (NYI, PHO, FLA) with ownership either changing or not willing to spend to win. Edmonton doesn't have that problem and could easily acquire "stop gap" pieces to at least ice a competitive team. This is all just my opinion, but especially after watching oil change, even the coaches and players know that their job isnt to win, but to improve. At least that's the overall feeling I took away from that
The year we drafted Hall we were a top 5 spending team. Still spending thaat much and sucking lead managment to focus on youth and the benefit of that is ELCs.


Seeing as your a canuck fan why bother researching anything. People act like the team has always been like this. They were a cap team every year minus this year. One year of cap space means we have been tanking since 06

Jamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 03:39 PM
  #138
Jamin
Registered User
 
Jamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
Bryan McCabe
Scott Hannan
Craig Rivet
Chris Campoli

most of these guys would make us better, ya i know they are washed up but they would still help us right away.

all the other UFA that we could have threw money at that have resigned (please don't make me list them).
Its easy to ignore the real world.

Whitney
Gilbert
Smid
Barker
Peckham
Sutton
Petry
UFA-lets say Hannah

Unfortunately teams cant just have unlimited players you need roster managment and we have too many bodies. Is another year of AHL worth Petry stagnating. Losing another player to waivers etc.


Obviously I want Tambellini to sign another dman but I can understand why he hasnt

Jamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 03:41 PM
  #139
Fire Julien
Registered User
 
Fire Julien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bergen
Country: Norway
Posts: 17,989
vCash: 500
I don't think they are tanking... however they are extremely incompetent. The medical staff and Tambellini trying to pull a number on LA twice in a matter of days is a good proof of that. And let's do Edmonton a favor and not insist on how poorly their team is built.

Fire Julien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 03:47 PM
  #140
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Seguin View Post
I don't think they are tanking... however they are extremely incompetent. The medical staff and Tambellini trying to pull a number on LA twice in a matter of days is a good proof of that. And let's do Edmonton a favor and not insist on how poorly their team is built.


Funny how HF posters seem to know the inside details of deals before they are released...and know the results of grievances that have yet to had any conclusions.

If you had said that our previous managment team was incompetent, I certainly wouldn't argue (Horcoff/Moreau/Pisani signings, 1st round picks wasted on guys like Jesse Ninnimaki and Jani Rita, etc), but since the old management drug this team into the need for a rebuild, Tambellini hasn't made many mistakes, and none of them were that glaring.

zeus3007* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 04:16 PM
  #141
Seachd
Registered User
 
Seachd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Fail
Posts: 13,485
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Funny how HF posters seem to know the inside details of deals before they are released...and know the results of grievances that have yet to had any conclusions.
It's not as funny as it is sad.

Seachd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 04:40 PM
  #142
JJM777
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orlando
Country: United States
Posts: 424
vCash: 500
If there had been any prospects like Crosby or Malkin for the oilers to draft then you'd be accused of "tanking" like the Pens. Somehow the Oilers are rebuilding but when the Pens were bad it was tanking.

JJM777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 04:41 PM
  #143
Joey Mac
Registered User
 
Joey Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,008
vCash: 500
i don't think they're tanking, they've signed some free agents that didn't really work out in their favor... i think the downfall started after pronger demanded to be traded, and the compensation they got back wasn't anything spectacular... imo they won't end up being the worst team in the league this year

Joey Mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 06:24 PM
  #144
Cleatus
Registered User
 
Cleatus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, ON, CAN.
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,731
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Cleatus
The Oilers aren't tanking, they're genuinely horrible and incredibly young.

Give them another year or two of obtaining awesome picks, and watch out. They could very well be the next Pittsburgh or Chicago.

Cleatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.