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FINAL RANGERS PROSPECT POLL RESULTS (Summer 2011)

View Poll Results: How do Ranger prospects stack up compared to the rest of the league?
1-5 4 6.25%
6-10 50 78.13%
11-20 10 15.63%
21-30 0 0%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-26-2011, 04:19 PM
  #26
ocarina
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
I know our opinions our purely subjective but I don't understand how Ryan McDonagh isn't #1 prospect on everyone's list. The guy is a stud and will be a top tier defensive defenseman for many years to come. He already has better instincts than any defenseman on the Rangers with the possible exception of Sauer. Otherwise, your rankings are pretty solid.
Personally, I don't see that high-end potential with McDonagh. I think his upside is more along the lines of a solid to very good second pairing guy.

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07-26-2011, 04:28 PM
  #27
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Personally, I don't see that high-end potential with McDonagh. I think his upside is more along the lines of a solid to very good second pairing guy.
He was a solid second pairing dman in his rookie season.

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07-26-2011, 05:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
He was a solid second pairing dman in his rookie season.
I just don't see the offensive upside in him to get much better then that, frankly. I think he ends up as a solid #3 at best. Not saying that that is a bad thing, but being a top-pairing d-man is very, very hard, and I just don't see enough overall skill in his game to be a legit top-pairing guy.

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07-26-2011, 05:57 PM
  #29
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I don't know why Hagelin consistently outranks Fasth when Hagelin is a bottom6 guy and Fasth is a top6 guy. I like Hagelin, he's a well conditioned athlete but I think his popularity has over shadowed Fasth's talent. Fasth had a great WJC and I think he's going to surprise quite a few people.

Underrated.
Fasth & Pashnin

Overrated
Borque & Yogan

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07-26-2011, 06:03 PM
  #30
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Ceresnak should be higher, not much, but better than 26th

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07-26-2011, 06:07 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I don't know why Hagelin consistently outranks Fasth when Hagelin is a bottom6 guy and Fasth is a top6 guy. I like Hagelin, he's a well conditioned athlete but I think his popularity has over shadowed Fasth's talent. Fasth had a great WJC and I think he's going to surprise quite a few people.

Underrated.
Fasth & Pashnin

Overrated
Borque & Yogan
Hagelin is viewed as much more of a sure thing, and we're all extremely familiar with him after four years in the system. Fasth, most of us have only seen once or twice, in the WJC. I still consider him as a big unknown. I'm optimistic about his chances, but there's just too much uncertainty.

I'd argue that most people rate Pashnin very fairly, and some overrate him. He's certainly not underrated.

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07-26-2011, 06:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
I just don't see the offensive upside in him to get much better then that, frankly. I think he ends up as a solid #3 at best. Not saying that that is a bad thing, but being a top-pairing d-man is very, very hard, and I just don't see enough overall skill in his game to be a legit top-pairing guy.
I guess we just saw different things, I think the offensive potential is definately there

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07-26-2011, 06:45 PM
  #33
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Yogan missed almost all of last season--ended up in Hartford and did very well late in the season. Maybe some of us do overrate him but I was kind of impressed considering it's a big step from the OHL to the AHL and doing what he did coming off a major injury. And he's also got size and strength.

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07-26-2011, 07:21 PM
  #34
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The problem with Yogan is that he was drafted late and then got injured. No reason to rank him highly... at least not yet

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07-26-2011, 07:54 PM
  #35
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First Tier:
1. Chris Kreider - I am biased, loved the kid since his draft year. Has the tools and the character.
2. Ryan McDonagh - Already at least a solid second pairing guy. Has Staal-like upside defensively.
3. Tim Erixon - Haven't seen a ton of him, but I am not sold on his ceiling being significantly higher than McDonagh's. Could just as easily be the best of the bunch though.
4. Christian Thomas - Kid can score. Lethal release. Again could easily be #1 out of these 5 when all is said and done.
5. JT Miller - Another instance of me being biased, really wanted us to draft him. I agree with Gordie that he is a natural Center and if everything breaks right (admittedly, long odds) we've got Kesler.

Second Tier:

6. Dylan McIlrath - No doubt that he will be an NHL player. IMO, the biggest thing he needs to work on lateral mobility. Even if he becomes only as good as Adam McQuaid he will be serviceable (being worthy of his draft spot is another story). Hopefully he continues to develop and becomes more.
7. Carl Hagelin - Has the dedication and athletic ability that make hm a near lock for the show. I highly doubt he will ever be a fixture in our top 6, but a 3rd line defensive pest is definitely a lot to get out of a 7th rounder. Then again who knows, Callahan did it.
8. Mats Zuccarello - I was tempted to rank him even lower. I admire his attitude, passion, and playmaking ability. I am skeptical that he will be able to contribute enough in the other two zones to really stick and be a fixture in our top 6.
9. Jesper Fasth - Similar to Erixon, have not gotten to watch a ton of this kid. Looked good to great in the WJCs, which was enough to bump him into this tier for me.

Third Tier:
10. Tomas Kundratek
11. Pavel Valentenko
12. Oscar Lindberg

Dark Horses:
1. Steve Fogarty - Again, one of my pre-draft guys so I'm biased. A looong term project but has top-6 offensive upside, for sure.
2. Andrew Yogan - Was thrilled with this pick in 2010. I hope he can get it back on track after his injury, has all the skill and a big frame. For what it's worth, game reminds me of Grachev.
3. Blake Parlett - Did not watch a ton of Hartford this year, but from all I read this kid has looked great. 0.5 ppg down the stretch and into the playoffs in your first taste of AHL action is nothing to sneeze at.
4. Shane McColgan - Kid is tenacious. Has a tremendous motor and a high skill level. Size is obviously an issue but he has the kind of approach and mindset you need to overcome it.
5. Jason Wilson - Not a ton of upside here, but could become a Prust-like fixture on the 4th line; the kind of player we all love.
6. Tommy Grant - Just a crazy hunch. By no means a lock to be even a good AHLer, but the few times I saw him at AA I was impressed by his overall skill level.

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07-26-2011, 08:52 PM
  #36
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Thanks for doing this, RE. Always appreciated.
Thank you, my pleasure.

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07-26-2011, 10:00 PM
  #37
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IMO the top-3 (Kreider, McDonagh, Erixon) are interchangeable. Not much between them, just depends what floats your boat.

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07-27-2011, 03:09 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The problem with Yogan is that he was drafted late and then got injured. No reason to rank him highly... at least not yet
Basically these are opinion polls--and well--that's your opinion but not everybody shares the same criteria for ranking players and to be honest there is no real way for anyone to prove that their's is superior to anyone else's.

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07-27-2011, 11:26 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I don't know why Hagelin consistently outranks Fasth when Hagelin is a bottom6 guy and Fasth is a top6 guy. I like Hagelin, he's a well conditioned athlete but I think his popularity has over shadowed Fasth's talent. Fasth had a great WJC and I think he's going to surprise quite a few people.

Underrated.
Fasth & Pashnin

Overrated
Borque & Yogan
For me, Fasth and Yogan are underrated and Bourque is overrated. I think Wilson and Parlett have a nice shot at carving out NHL careers as well and the one guy who I think will be an NHL player who is not on this list is McNaught. The kid fills a role and a hole in the organization.

McNaught, Wilson, McIlrath, Noreau.

Looks like the Rangers are looking to become a mean, nasty team to play against in the future.

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08-09-2011, 04:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
For me, Fasth and Yogan are underrated and Bourque is overrated. I think Wilson and Parlett have a nice shot at carving out NHL careers as well and the one guy who I think will be an NHL player who is not on this list is McNaught. The kid fills a role and a hole in the organization.

McNaught, Wilson, McIlrath, Noreau.
Looks like the Rangers are looking to become a mean, nasty team to play against in the future.
McNaught - He's a legimate heavyweight, but his development was seriously set back by an ankle injury last season. The Rangers retain his rights, but they haven't signed him yet. The Whale sorely needs a heavyweight on their roster, but McNaught had never produced as a player on the junior level, and it's more likely he'll have to prove himself in the ECHL this year. He's a good kid, and I'm rooting for him, but he needs a lot of work.

Wilson - Not quite a true heavyweight, he reminds some of Brandon Prust, although he is a little bigger but not quite as fiesty. He is a capable fighter, but I wouldn't count on him carrying the load in that department. Wilson played in juniors as an overager last season, and he was a solid role player on a very good team. Some question his skills as he didn't dominate offensively as a 20 year old in juniors. But on a team with a ton of offensive talent, it was probably more important for him to play his role as a grinder and penalty killer, which he apparently did quite well. If he can score a little as a pro, say 10 goals or so for the Whale, look for him to be an ideal bottom 6 forward candidate in the future.

McIlrath - Two words, Jeff Beukeboom. Most of us don't have the opportunity to see him, and it's hard to evaluate a defensive player via statistics. As a "shutdown" defenseman, I imagine he plays against the opposition's top players, and if so, then even a +/- rating of zero without much scoring is adequate. He seems to be a bright kid with a great attitude. I have watched his fights, and although he's quite good, I think he is a tad over-rated as a fighter, however. I don't think fighting will be his speciality, and for the Rangers sake, let's hope it isn't. Like Beukeboom, he should bring toughness to the backline, and hopefully be able defend well enough to earn a regular spot with the Rangers.

Noreau - With even best fighters in juniors, you'll watch big strapping kids, and you'll project how well they might handle themselves 3-4 years down the line as pros. Not so with Noreau. He was already a polished fighter last season at age 17, which is quite amazing. If you watch him fight, you'll swear he's almost every bit as good as Dave Brown ever was right now. And although 5 goals doesn't sound like much, it's actually a promising number of goals from a defenseman who might otherwise earn his keep strictly as a goon. If he keeps working at his game, he could be a very valuable asset as a third pair D-man for the Rangers in the future.

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08-09-2011, 06:57 PM
  #41
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McNaught - He's a legimate heavyweight, but his development was seriously set back by an ankle injury last season. The Rangers retain his rights, but they haven't signed him yet. The Whale sorely needs a heavyweight on their roster, but McNaught had never produced as a player on the junior level, and it's more likely he'll have to prove himself in the ECHL this year. He's a good kid, and I'm rooting for him, but he needs a lot of work.

Wilson - Not quite a true heavyweight, he reminds some of Brandon Prust, although he is a little bigger but not quite as fiesty. He is a capable fighter, but I wouldn't count on him carrying the load in that department. Wilson played in juniors as an overager last season, and he was a solid role player on a very good team. Some question his skills as he didn't dominate offensively as a 20 year old in juniors. But on a team with a ton of offensive talent, it was probably more important for him to play his role as a grinder and penalty killer, which he apparently did quite well. If he can score a little as a pro, say 10 goals or so for the Whale, look for him to be an ideal bottom 6 forward candidate in the future.

McIlrath - Two words, Jeff Beukeboom. Most of us don't have the opportunity to see him, and it's hard to evaluate a defensive player via statistics. As a "shutdown" defenseman, I imagine he plays against the opposition's top players, and if so, then even a +/- rating of zero without much scoring is adequate. He seems to be a bright kid with a great attitude. I have watched his fights, and although he's quite good, I think he is a tad over-rated as a fighter, however. I don't think fighting will be his speciality, and for the Rangers sake, let's hope it isn't. Like Beukeboom, he should bring toughness to the backline, and hopefully be able defend well enough to earn a regular spot with the Rangers.

Noreau - With even best fighters in juniors, you'll watch big strapping kids, and you'll project how well they might handle themselves 3-4 years down the line as pros. Not so with Noreau. He was already a polished fighter last season at age 17, which is quite amazing. If you watch him fight, you'll swear he's almost every bit as good as Dave Brown ever was right now. And although 5 goals doesn't sound like much, it's actually a promising number of goals from a defenseman who might otherwise earn his keep strictly as a goon. If he keeps working at his game, he could be a very valuable asset as a third pair D-man for the Rangers in the future.

I think McNaught actually has pretty good skills for a player of his style. I wouldnt be surprised if the Whale decide to hold onto him as they are missing a heavyweight.

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08-09-2011, 08:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think McNaught actually has pretty good skills for a player of his style. I wouldnt be surprised if the Whale decide to hold onto him as they are missing a heavyweight.
Six goals & 6 assists in 65 WHL games in his 3rd year of draft eligibility isn't great. Then he misses virtually all of last year with an ankle injury. Jason Wilson had 17 g & 18 assists in 46 games at the same stage, and people say he doesn't have enough scoring skills to be a pro. Then again, McNaught would be a legit heavyweight, so as long as he can skate up & down the ice and not take dumb penalties, it may not matter (a la Colton Orr).

The Whale really do need a heavyweight, and it would be great if McNaught can fill that void.

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08-09-2011, 11:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
McNaught, Wilson, McIlrath, Noreau.

Looks like the Rangers are looking to become a mean, nasty team to play against in the future.

Outside of McIlrath, the Rangers will be lucky to have just one of the others become even a marginal NHL player.

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08-10-2011, 07:35 AM
  #44
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Well, here's how I would rank them at this point in time. I'm trying to take into account potential, likelihood of reaching potential, NHL preparedness, etc.

1. Tim Erixon (D) - There is nothing about Erixon's game that stands out as superstar-level, but there are so many facets where he is an above-average player. His spot at the top of this list is really more about the dearth of high-end prospects in the organization. He will be at least a very solid and consistent 2-way #3 defenseman, with a shot at being good enough to slot into a top pair, depending on who the team's #1 blueliner is.

2. Chris Kreider (LW) - Kreider's mouthwatering potential is high enough to place him second, despite the genuine concerns about his ability to live up to it. He's still got a lot of work to do mentally if he ever wants to be a significant offensive player in the NHL, but he has too many physical abilities and positive character traits to not, at the very least, be a useful and effective bottom six player. We've definitely got something here, and while the chances that he ends up as a star player aren't particularly high, they are there and he could really be great if he ever figures it out.

3. Ryan McDonagh (D) - Most of what I said about Erixon applies to McDonagh. They are somewhat different in terms of their style of play, but they figure to end up in the same kind of situation. McDonagh, a little worse than Erixon, will probably never be a top pairing defenseman. However, he's clearly a very bright player, and figures to be (along with Sauer) one of the league's best second-pairing defensemen. He understands positioning, he understands the mentality of playing efficient defense at the NHL level, and he's useful physically as well as with his stick. He's a pretty "safe" player in the sense that, like the previous two, he's going to stick around in the NHL for a long, long time.

4. Christian Thomas (RW) - He's got a higher ceiling than any of the previous three, but he's not as "safe" as any of them. I don't like when people compare him to a guy like MSL, because he's not much of a playmaker. He's really a goalscorer, first and foremost, which is nothing to be ashamed of, but you have to be really, really good to make it as a star player in the NHL solely based off of your ability to score goals. I am not biased against players of short stature, but you can't deny that it is something to be concerned about, at least to some degree. If Thomas can't be a consistent 30 goal scorer in the league, he's probably never going to amount to much. But he's better prepared mentally than Kreider to be an impact player offensively. If he can handle the physical rigors of the NHL game, he should be able to stick.

5. J.T. Miller (LW) - Once again, another guy that is strong enough in terms of an overall game that it kind of makes up for his lack of elite ability in any particular aspect. Miller gives you a taste of so many different things that it's hard not to imagine him as a guy that makes it in the NHL simply because he can end up being useful in so many different roles. Some have compared him to a cross of Callahan and Dubinsky. I see a little more of the latter than the former in him, which is fine. I'm not overly confident that he will be able to be a very effective playmaker at the NHL level (probably about as effective as Dubinsky, which is not bad, but far from great), but he has the mentality to be able to apply all of his other abilities and apply them well. Again, a pretty "safe" prospect to make it to the NHL.

6. Mats Zuccarello (F) - He's probably the smartest offensive player in the organization, but he's not "safe" by any stretch. He may also simply be a victim of circumstances. He needs several things if he's ever going to be a significant offensive threat in the NHL. One, he probably could use more AHL seasoning to continue and improve his ability to read the play on the smaller ice surface and to gain more experience in dealing with the physical difference. Two, he needs to play with a certain set of linemates, and unfortunately, I just don't know how likely it is that he'll get that opportunity as a Ranger. A nice line for him would be, say Kreider-Anisimov-Zuccarello, or Zuccarello-Miller-Callahan (going off of what Kreider and Miller might amount to if they end up as successful prospects), but more likely he's playing with guys like Stepan/Fedotenko/Rupp/Avery/Hagelin. So much potential for MZA, but I don't know that it's very likely he finds NHL success with the Rangers. Numbers game.

7. Carl Hagelin (LW) - This guy is probably one of the best mentally prepared prospects in the world in terms of being ready to play in the NHL. He's REALLY smart, and plays the game the right way. He'll probably need a little time to acclimate to the physicality of the league, but I would SHOCKED if he doesn't have a long and fruitful career as one of the league's best penalty killers and most valuable third-line defensive minded forward. I really think he's going to be our 3rd line LW for many, many years to come.

8. Jesper Fasth (RW) - I think Jesper Fasth might be the most underrated prospect in our system. He's a bit like Thomas in the sense that he's not much of a playmaker, but he has great goalscoring instincts. He's also a great, great skater and very fast. He has a little bit of that Callahan thing in him where you can see that his mind never stops. Some players zone out sometimes on the ice, while others have this motor that keeps them focused on the action for the entirety of the shift. That's how Fasth is. Smart player. He's always focused on "how can I create a scoring chance right now?" I think he's got the potential to be a 25 goal, 25-30 assist second line forward that gives opposing defenses fits with his breakneck speed and tenacity.

9. Dylan McIlrath (D) - Obviously, I was really down on this pick, and that hasn't changed. He's like Kreider in the sense that he has a ******** of physical gifts that make fans and front office types alike drool, but the reality is he's totally unprepared to play in the NHL. The kid just does not exhibit the knowledge of how to play defense. This is the kind of guy that great NHL playmakers love to play against. Yeah, once in a while, he'll lay you out with a big, flashy hit, and casual fans will rejoice. More often than not, however, he's going to have poor body position on the puck carrier, he's going to not understand how to use his position and his stick to stop a talented and dangerous offensive player, and he's probably going to end up going for a hit way too early that will result in allowing the puckhandler to create a far more dangerous offensive opportunity than he should be able to. It's not impossible that he learns to play the game the right way, but it's going to be very tough, and IMO, not very likely. Picking him is going to probably go down as a really big blunder, especially because we could have solidified our offense by picking a guy like Tarasenko, or obviously added to our talent and asset pool with Fowler, or hell, even gotten a better version of McIlrath in a guy like Tinordi or Forbort.

10. Pavel Valentenko (D) - Like MZA, he'll probably be a victim of the situation, but I think he's already able to step in and be a very nice third-pairing defenseman who makes solid plays in his own zone, lays guys out 2 or 3 times a game, and occasionally breaks through with a booming slapper or one-timer. Yeah, he's not much in the way of offensive instincts and he's not very fast, but you're not getting all-star talents on your third pair.

11. Oscar Lindberg (F) - Not a big fan of the Werek/Lindberg trade, as I feel that Werek had a higher ceiling, but I don't dislike Lindberg. He's a smart defensive forward, and I think it's very likely he is the 4th line center in 2-3 years. Best case scenario, he's strong enough to play with Hagelin to form a dastardly defensive duo on our third line that allows us to consider moving Anisimov or Stepan. A pretty "safe" prospect.

12. Tomas Kundratek (D) - He's kind of like a poor man's Erixon, but more physical. He's got an all-around game, instincts at both ends, and he's a relatively safe prospect. Not very flashy style of play, but effective. I think he's an NHLer, but I don't know if it'll happen with this club.

13. Steven Fogarty (C) - There's a pretty big drop at this point in terms of chances at reaching potential, so I feel like potential itself starts to mean more with these guys, and that's why I have to rank Fogarty above them all, because I think he's got the most to offer, even if he isn't the safest of the bunch.

14. Shane McColgan (RW) - He might be even more talented than Fogarty, but he's so small. He's going to be fighting an uphill battle, but I was a big fan of the pick, so I think he's definitely worth the risk.

15. Andrew Yogan (C) - Love/hate on Yogan. He's got a lot of skill, and shows flashes of being a playmaker at times, but then sometimes he makes boneheaded plays or fools around with the puck a lot.

16. Mikhail Pashnin (D) - The biggest issue with him is this team is so deep defensively, where does he slot in. He can be an NHL defenseman, though.

17. Scott Stacjer (G) - I liked the pick, and I think with the help of a good goaltending coach, he can be be an NHL backup.

18. Ryan Bourque (F) - Reminiscent of McColgan, but IMO not as good, just as small, and probably more injury prone. Unlike McColgan, I'm not sure he was worth the risk.

19. Michael St. Croix (F) - Really needs to improve his ability to take wear and tear, take punishment. If he does, he can actually be a solid offensive contributor. He's got skills.

20. Andreas Thuresson (RW) - I liked this pick up. I think he could actually end up being an NHL player, though not much of one. The Swedish fundamental base could be enough to get him time as a 4th line guy, or an extra forward.

21. Dale Weise (RW) - I don't care much for this guy. I just think he's a run of the mill grinder who can put up some numbers in the AHL but will fail to approach that in the NHL. Don't think he has a future with this club.

22. Peter Ceresnak (D)
23. Blake Parlett (D)
24. Samuel Noreau (D)
25. Jason Wilson (LW)
26. Jyri Niemi (D)
27. Tommy Grant (LW)
28. Cameron Talbot (G)

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08-10-2011, 07:42 AM
  #45
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Outside of McIlrath, the Rangers will be lucky to have just one of the others become even a marginal NHL player.
And thats fine. Its building the identity of the organization. Big, tough, hard to play against.

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08-10-2011, 08:13 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Well, here's how I would rank them at this point in time. I'm trying to take into account potential, likelihood of reaching potential, NHL preparedness, etc.

1. Tim Erixon (D) - There is nothing about Erixon's game that stands out as superstar-level, but there are so many facets where he is an above-average player. His spot at the top of this list is really more about the dearth of high-end prospects in the organization. He will be at least a very solid and consistent 2-way #3 defenseman, with a shot at being good enough to slot into a top pair, depending on who the team's #1 blueliner is.

2. Chris Kreider (LW) - Kreider's mouthwatering potential is high enough to place him second, despite the genuine concerns about his ability to live up to it. He's still got a lot of work to do mentally if he ever wants to be a significant offensive player in the NHL, but he has too many physical abilities and positive character traits to not, at the very least, be a useful and effective bottom six player. We've definitely got something here, and while the chances that he ends up as a star player aren't particularly high, they are there and he could really be great if he ever figures it out.

3. Ryan McDonagh (D) - Most of what I said about Erixon applies to McDonagh. They are somewhat different in terms of their style of play, but they figure to end up in the same kind of situation. McDonagh, a little worse than Erixon, will probably never be a top pairing defenseman. However, he's clearly a very bright player, and figures to be (along with Sauer) one of the league's best second-pairing defensemen. He understands positioning, he understands the mentality of playing efficient defense at the NHL level, and he's useful physically as well as with his stick. He's a pretty "safe" player in the sense that, like the previous two, he's going to stick around in the NHL for a long, long time.

4. Christian Thomas (RW) - He's got a higher ceiling than any of the previous three, but he's not as "safe" as any of them. I don't like when people compare him to a guy like MSL, because he's not much of a playmaker. He's really a goalscorer, first and foremost, which is nothing to be ashamed of, but you have to be really, really good to make it as a star player in the NHL solely based off of your ability to score goals. I am not biased against players of short stature, but you can't deny that it is something to be concerned about, at least to some degree. If Thomas can't be a consistent 30 goal scorer in the league, he's probably never going to amount to much. But he's better prepared mentally than Kreider to be an impact player offensively. If he can handle the physical rigors of the NHL game, he should be able to stick.

5. J.T. Miller (LW) - Once again, another guy that is strong enough in terms of an overall game that it kind of makes up for his lack of elite ability in any particular aspect. Miller gives you a taste of so many different things that it's hard not to imagine him as a guy that makes it in the NHL simply because he can end up being useful in so many different roles. Some have compared him to a cross of Callahan and Dubinsky. I see a little more of the latter than the former in him, which is fine. I'm not overly confident that he will be able to be a very effective playmaker at the NHL level (probably about as effective as Dubinsky, which is not bad, but far from great), but he has the mentality to be able to apply all of his other abilities and apply them well. Again, a pretty "safe" prospect to make it to the NHL.

6. Mats Zuccarello (F) - He's probably the smartest offensive player in the organization, but he's not "safe" by any stretch. He may also simply be a victim of circumstances. He needs several things if he's ever going to be a significant offensive threat in the NHL. One, he probably could use more AHL seasoning to continue and improve his ability to read the play on the smaller ice surface and to gain more experience in dealing with the physical difference. Two, he needs to play with a certain set of linemates, and unfortunately, I just don't know how likely it is that he'll get that opportunity as a Ranger. A nice line for him would be, say Kreider-Anisimov-Zuccarello, or Zuccarello-Miller-Callahan (going off of what Kreider and Miller might amount to if they end up as successful prospects), but more likely he's playing with guys like Stepan/Fedotenko/Rupp/Avery/Hagelin. So much potential for MZA, but I don't know that it's very likely he finds NHL success with the Rangers. Numbers game.

7. Carl Hagelin (LW) - This guy is probably one of the best mentally prepared prospects in the world in terms of being ready to play in the NHL. He's REALLY smart, and plays the game the right way. He'll probably need a little time to acclimate to the physicality of the league, but I would SHOCKED if he doesn't have a long and fruitful career as one of the league's best penalty killers and most valuable third-line defensive minded forward. I really think he's going to be our 3rd line LW for many, many years to come.

8. Jesper Fasth (RW) - I think Jesper Fasth might be the most underrated prospect in our system. He's a bit like Thomas in the sense that he's not much of a playmaker, but he has great goalscoring instincts. He's also a great, great skater and very fast. He has a little bit of that Callahan thing in him where you can see that his mind never stops. Some players zone out sometimes on the ice, while others have this motor that keeps them focused on the action for the entirety of the shift. That's how Fasth is. Smart player. He's always focused on "how can I create a scoring chance right now?" I think he's got the potential to be a 25 goal, 25-30 assist second line forward that gives opposing defenses fits with his breakneck speed and tenacity.

9. Dylan McIlrath (D) - Obviously, I was really down on this pick, and that hasn't changed. He's like Kreider in the sense that he has a ******** of physical gifts that make fans and front office types alike drool, but the reality is he's totally unprepared to play in the NHL. The kid just does not exhibit the knowledge of how to play defense. This is the kind of guy that great NHL playmakers love to play against. Yeah, once in a while, he'll lay you out with a big, flashy hit, and casual fans will rejoice. More often than not, however, he's going to have poor body position on the puck carrier, he's going to not understand how to use his position and his stick to stop a talented and dangerous offensive player, and he's probably going to end up going for a hit way too early that will result in allowing the puckhandler to create a far more dangerous offensive opportunity than he should be able to. It's not impossible that he learns to play the game the right way, but it's going to be very tough, and IMO, not very likely. Picking him is going to probably go down as a really big blunder, especially because we could have solidified our offense by picking a guy like Tarasenko, or obviously added to our talent and asset pool with Fowler, or hell, even gotten a better version of McIlrath in a guy like Tinordi or Forbort.

10. Pavel Valentenko (D) - Like MZA, he'll probably be a victim of the situation, but I think he's already able to step in and be a very nice third-pairing defenseman who makes solid plays in his own zone, lays guys out 2 or 3 times a game, and occasionally breaks through with a booming slapper or one-timer. Yeah, he's not much in the way of offensive instincts and he's not very fast, but you're not getting all-star talents on your third pair.

11. Oscar Lindberg (F) - Not a big fan of the Werek/Lindberg trade, as I feel that Werek had a higher ceiling, but I don't dislike Lindberg. He's a smart defensive forward, and I think it's very likely he is the 4th line center in 2-3 years. Best case scenario, he's strong enough to play with Hagelin to form a dastardly defensive duo on our third line that allows us to consider moving Anisimov or Stepan. A pretty "safe" prospect.

12. Tomas Kundratek (D) - He's kind of like a poor man's Erixon, but more physical. He's got an all-around game, instincts at both ends, and he's a relatively safe prospect. Not very flashy style of play, but effective. I think he's an NHLer, but I don't know if it'll happen with this club.

13. Steven Fogarty (C) - There's a pretty big drop at this point in terms of chances at reaching potential, so I feel like potential itself starts to mean more with these guys, and that's why I have to rank Fogarty above them all, because I think he's got the most to offer, even if he isn't the safest of the bunch.

14. Shane McColgan (RW) - He might be even more talented than Fogarty, but he's so small. He's going to be fighting an uphill battle, but I was a big fan of the pick, so I think he's definitely worth the risk.

15. Andrew Yogan (C) - Love/hate on Yogan. He's got a lot of skill, and shows flashes of being a playmaker at times, but then sometimes he makes boneheaded plays or fools around with the puck a lot.

16. Mikhail Pashnin (D) - The biggest issue with him is this team is so deep defensively, where does he slot in. He can be an NHL defenseman, though.

17. Scott Stacjer (G) - I liked the pick, and I think with the help of a good goaltending coach, he can be be an NHL backup.

18. Ryan Bourque (F) - Reminiscent of McColgan, but IMO not as good, just as small, and probably more injury prone. Unlike McColgan, I'm not sure he was worth the risk.

19. Michael St. Croix (F) - Really needs to improve his ability to take wear and tear, take punishment. If he does, he can actually be a solid offensive contributor. He's got skills.

20. Andreas Thuresson (RW) - I liked this pick up. I think he could actually end up being an NHL player, though not much of one. The Swedish fundamental base could be enough to get him time as a 4th line guy, or an extra forward.

21. Dale Weise (RW) - I don't care much for this guy. I just think he's a run of the mill grinder who can put up some numbers in the AHL but will fail to approach that in the NHL. Don't think he has a future with this club.

22. Peter Ceresnak (D)
23. Blake Parlett (D)
24. Samuel Noreau (D)
25. Jason Wilson (LW)
26. Jyri Niemi (D)
27. Tommy Grant (LW)
28. Cameron Talbot (G)
Sting, I love this write-up!

I have only (1) gripe, and that is with Lindberg who I see as having some untapped offensive potential. I think he has a legitimate shot at being a 3rd line center in the NHL.

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08-11-2011, 01:28 AM
  #47
Jxmarts
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Outside of McIlrath, the Rangers will be lucky to have just one of the others become even a marginal NHL player.
Is that because they're not scorers or because they're late round draft picks?

Hockey isn't all about scoring... you need balance & you need role players. The Rangers have also recently drafted players like Fasth, St. Croix & McColgan in the late rounds, so it isn't as if they're totally foregoing skill. With the Bourques, Hagelins & MZA's already in the organization, it's good to have some size too.

It's true that the vast majority of late round picks won't make it as NHLers. Yes, most of them will be lucky to become marginal NHL players. But as fans, we have a right to project & dream, as long as we remain realistic. Otherwise what's the point of following player development at all?

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08-11-2011, 02:06 AM
  #48
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
Otherwise what's the point of following player development at all?
What's the point in lying to yourself if all the evidence points to the chances of a guy turning out to be a useful player being slim to none, especially when you can just follow the healthy amount of players that either do become useful, or give it a good go?

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08-11-2011, 02:07 AM
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Yes, because they are late picks. Its unrealistic to expect more than a couple players out of 30 drafted im a given midround to make it. If we get one decent player from all our 3-7 round picks, we are lucky.

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08-11-2011, 03:49 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
7. Carl Hagelin (LW) - This guy is probably one of the best mentally prepared prospects in the world in terms of being ready to play in the NHL. He's REALLY smart, and plays the game the right way. He'll probably need a little time to acclimate to the physicality of the league, but I would SHOCKED if he doesn't have a long and fruitful career as one of the league's best penalty killers and most valuable third-line defensive minded forward. I really think he's going to be our 3rd line LW for many, many years to come.
Great stuff Sting!

I am going to comment on some of the later players that you have ranked, I've not seen all of them so I won't try to rank them myself.

On Hagelin, he is a very good hockeyplayer. In terms of NHL potential, what fears me the most is that he already is 23 y/o, and you wonder how much more he can develop. Being somewhat undersized, I am also afraid that he will be hard to fit into a NHL team. Like not a optimal bottom two line player and not a optimal top two line player.

There is a risk for sure that this kid never will get a real chance, and disapear to Europe and have a strong career there.

Quote:
11. Oscar Lindberg (F) - Not a big fan of the Werek/Lindberg trade, as I feel that Werek had a higher ceiling, but I don't dislike Lindberg. He's a smart defensive forward, and I think it's very likely he is the 4th line center in 2-3 years. Best case scenario, he's strong enough to play with Hagelin to form a dastardly defensive duo on our third line that allows us to consider moving Anisimov or Stepan. A pretty "safe" prospect.
Lindberg is only 19 y/o and is in a diffrent cathegory then Hagelin for sure. He has a good attitude and is very mature for his age. Clutch defensively and great on FO's. He played as a checking line center for his SEL team last season and annoyed alot of players on the teams he lined up against. He is decently skilled. At some extent you know exactly what you got in him, but at the same time, its too early to really tell what his NHL chances are. He is the type who needs to do the right things and develop for a couple of years. But he is a decent prospect who could become a solid 3rd/4th line center. Smart. Poised. The extremely stubborn type.

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12. Tomas Kundratek (D) - He's kind of like a poor man's Erixon, but more physical. He's got an all-around game, instincts at both ends, and he's a relatively safe prospect. Not very flashy style of play, but effective. I think he's an NHLer, but I don't know if it'll happen with this club.
Decent prospect, we have had quite a few of them in HFD the last handful of years. Kundratek doesn't stick out like Sauer, Girardi and co., but still has alot of gods. You just wonder if he ever will get a shot with the depth we have...

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15. Andrew Yogan (C) - Love/hate on Yogan. He's got a lot of skill, and shows flashes of being a playmaker at times, but then sometimes he makes boneheaded plays or fools around with the puck a lot.
This kid really needs a break. Missing almost a full year at the time he did is such a disaster.

You gotta love that he could finnish on a high note with that two goal game and then another point in his second game in HFD.

I've not seen much of him, but he looks like a decent player for someone his size. Needs to find his niche though.

Quote:
18. Ryan Bourque (F) - Reminiscent of McColgan, but IMO not as good, just as small, and probably more injury prone. Unlike McColgan, I'm not sure he was worth the risk.
I've not seen McColgan, but Ryan Bourquei someone what of a favorite player of mine.

If he wasn't a midget, and just like a little undersized, hed be a lock to play in the NHL. He has so much hockey in him, and so much ability that is useful in any role. 1st line/4th line.

I still don't wanna give up on this kid, I like him alot more than say a player like Dwight Helminen who eventually got some games in the NHL. But its going to be tough for him and its hard to predict what role he eventually could end up in. He is not a elite scorer.

Quote:
19. Michael St. Croix (F) - Really needs to improve his ability to take wear and tear, take punishment. If he does, he can actually be a solid offensive contributor. He's got skills.
This is the kid of this years draft picks I will watch with the greatest interest this upcoming season.

I've seen some of him, and he truely is a wizard with the puck. He makes all plays at a tremendously high speed.

I love his sniper/playmaking ratio, both sides of the game comes natrual to him. Its always soo much easier for a small kid to make it to the NHL if you can succed both in the dirty areas as well as on the perimeter. We saw with Dawes how tough it is to only be able to score from the crease in teh NHL when you are that small.

Definitely star potential!!!

Quote:
20. Andreas Thuresson (RW) - I liked this pick up. I think he could actually end up being an NHL player, though not much of one. The Swedish fundamental base could be enough to get him time as a 4th line guy, or an extra forward.
Thuresson is pretty strong and brings alot of energy to the ice. Plays with alot of speed under his skates. He isn't that talented offensively. He is also on the verge for sure, and I doubt he will become a main stay in the NHL. I've not seen all that much of him lately.

Still, a good energy guy.

Quote:
21. Dale Weise (RW) - I don't care much for this guy. I just think he's a run of the mill grinder who can put up some numbers in the AHL but will fail to approach that in the NHL. Don't think he has a future with this club.
I am not all that high on him either, but I wouldn't let him fall of the radar.

He is a strong player, but in his NHL stints he had not been able to keep that speed under his skates in all situation. Like he needs to be able to skate better in smaller areas. To be able to come in faster on the forecheck etc. As it is now, he is good at collecting a puck in his own end, and set off along the boards. He can challenge a D in those situation. But he isn't the type waterbug skater who eats up D's on the forecheck.

And if he could add that element to his game, he could really become a pain to play against at the NHL level. A 4th line type of course, but still a good one.

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