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Leino, the debate concerning overpayment of UFA's and the Flyers approach?

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Old
08-10-2011, 11:28 AM
  #26
tuckrr
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
An 8 million contract is not an asset for a defenseman.
Look at the briere contract and how well that's developed ...

I mean we pay timonen 6.33 mil... 8 for weber/suter isnt bad now, and will only get better each year

7.5 is what he's getting now (weber), 8 on the open market is to be expected...

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08-10-2011, 11:36 AM
  #27
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The cap likely won't continue rising 4-5 mil every single year. That will balance out, and when that happens an 8 million dollar contract for a defenseman who isn't a generational talent will look really stupid.

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08-10-2011, 11:39 AM
  #28
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Agreed. That is a serious amount of money tied up in one player who doesn't score 50 goals, or put up over 100 points in the season

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08-10-2011, 12:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The cap likely won't continue rising 4-5 mil every single year. That will balance out, and when that happens an 8 million dollar contract for a defenseman who isn't a generational talent will look really stupid.
i think it all depends on the new cba. the owners wanted it tied to revenues and they got it and with a steady long term tv deal the league has a guaranteed income. whatever needs to be addressed with how the low revenue teams hit the floor is really gonna determine what the price on intermediate players is. with free agency coming at an earlier age i think this is just the beginning of ufa inflation. gms arent stupid and theyre going to lock up the top/young talent. which leaves a large chunk of mandatory spending in a limited talent pool. this is whaqt the nhlpa wanted so that rank and file players will see paydays. now that that time has come well see whether they can hold strong and keep it.

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08-10-2011, 12:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Agreed. That is a serious amount of money tied up in one player who doesn't score 50 goals, or put up over 100 points in the season
weber/suter filling in for timonen/pronger/carle is fine by me...even if it costs the team a bit more

who knows though...if nashville doesnt get them signed (and im starting to doubt that they will) things will get hectic, and we've got money to burn...

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08-10-2011, 01:12 PM
  #31
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Yes but you can clearly see that Homer is waiting for the right opportunity to sign Yashin to a 10 year 75 million contract.

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08-10-2011, 01:30 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
weber/suter filling in for timonen/pronger/carle is fine by me...even if it costs the team a bit more

who knows though...if nashville doesnt get them signed (and im starting to doubt that they will) things will get hectic, and we've got money to burn...
We haven't got that much money to spend next summer.

We will need to re-sign JvR and Voracek and re-sign or replace Jagr, Coburn and Carle. Betts will be an UFA as well, although that doesn't really matter here.

With the cap staying as it is now we have 17M to do this. We also (let's hope so at least) will have the possibility to use the bonus cushion, but as we see this season, that might not be the best thing to do. Let's add the 3M anyway, so we will have 20M to spend.

The cap will most likely rise, but the new contracts to JvR and Voracek might very well eat up all of that and then some. Maybe you could replace Jagr's roster spot with Couturier and save about 2M, but I don't know if that's what we want to do.

Say that on forward JvR, Voracek, Couturier and Betts replacement will amount to 8-10 million.

If we don't want to go into the bonus cushion we have only got 7-9M left (plus the possible cap increase) to re-sign or replace Coburn and Carle. I would love for us to get Suter, but I don't think we will if he can command 8M.

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08-10-2011, 05:19 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think you lost me at Leino > Kovalchuk
I mentioned Kovalchuk because of this:
Quote:
Consequently, the NHL penalized the Devils for trying to circumvent the NHL Salary Cap with Kovalchuk's original contract. As a result, the Devils surrendered $3 million, a third round draft choice in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft and one future first round draft choice within the next four seasons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Kovalchuk


If you take 3 million and two draft picks within his contract they lost a lot of pieces. And Kovalchuk seems to be a Heatley, Carter, Marleau style of player who underperform in the Playoffs.

So i donīt want Kovalchuk near my team!!

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08-10-2011, 05:34 PM
  #34
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Kovy has a total of 9 playoff games in the last 10 years, so I'm not sure how you can really pass judgement on his postseason performance.

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08-10-2011, 06:55 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Kovy has a total of 9 playoff games in the last 10 years, so I'm not sure how you can really pass judgement on his postseason performance.
i know right?

bias much?

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08-10-2011, 07:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
We haven't got that much money to spend next summer.

We will need to re-sign JvR and Voracek and re-sign or replace Jagr, Coburn and Carle. Betts will be an UFA as well, although that doesn't really matter here.

With the cap staying as it is now we have 17M to do this. We also (let's hope so at least) will have the possibility to use the bonus cushion, but as we see this season, that might not be the best thing to do. Let's add the 3M anyway, so we will have 20M to spend.

The cap will most likely rise, but the new contracts to JvR and Voracek might very well eat up all of that and then some. Maybe you could replace Jagr's roster spot with Couturier and save about 2M, but I don't know if that's what we want to do.

Say that on forward JvR, Voracek, Couturier and Betts replacement will amount to 8-10 million.

If we don't want to go into the bonus cushion we have only got 7-9M left (plus the possible cap increase) to re-sign or replace Coburn and Carle. I would love for us to get Suter, but I don't think we will if he can command 8M.
idk, I see it as 8-10mil for forwards,
8mil suter
4 mil coburn

drop carle

(maybe drop a few extra pieces, ala shelley, to make it work...but basically thats 20mil)


next year...space opens up, sign weber, buh-bye hartnell/timonen (leaves us space for simmonds, and some extra space for roo/schenn later)

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08-10-2011, 07:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Kovy has a total of 9 playoff games in the last 10 years, so I'm not sure how you can really pass judgement on his postseason performance.
He was the only good player vs Philly in the 2010 playoffs.

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08-10-2011, 11:10 PM
  #38
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Hockey News Ultimate Pool Guide I just picked up has Leino with 60 points, Jagr with 66 and the "big" Toronto signing Connolly with 44 points. It also has Schenn at 50 (2nd among rookies). If the players get close to those totals the Jagr signing looks pretty good, the Leino signing not bad and the Connolly signing terrible.

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08-11-2011, 12:37 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Beastieboy View Post
Hockey News Ultimate Pool Guide I just picked up has Leino with 60 points, Jagr with 66 and the "big" Toronto signing Connolly with 44 points. It also has Schenn at 50 (2nd among rookies). If the players get close to those totals the Jagr signing looks pretty good, the Leino signing not bad and the Connolly signing terrible.
50 pts by Schenn would be huge.

I won't get my expectations up there, I'm thinking more like 30-40 pts.

If Schenn gets 30 points, we're probably a borderline playoff team.
If Schenn gets 50 points, I could see us finishing with home-ice advantage.

Don't get me wrong, those 20 points won't mean make or break for the Flyers but if Schenn gets 50 pts, that probably means that Nodl/Talbot and Simmonds (who are his projected linemates) will have a great year too.

Starting to get really excited to see this kid play.

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08-11-2011, 07:56 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Kovy has a total of 9 playoff games in the last 10 years, so I'm not sure how you can really pass judgement on his postseason performance.
Agreed. That's only permissible if he was injured for the vast majority of them.

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08-11-2011, 11:45 AM
  #41
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Agreed. That's only permissible if he was injured for the vast majority of them.
Nice....

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08-11-2011, 12:45 PM
  #42
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Agreed. That's only permissible if he was injured for the vast majority of them.
with the other teams in the league maybe, but in Philadelphia injuries are ignored in playoff production arguements by the typical suspects around here.

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08-11-2011, 03:46 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
idk, I see it as 8-10mil for forwards,
8mil suter
4 mil coburn

drop carle

(maybe drop a few extra pieces, ala shelley, to make it work...but basically thats 20mil)


next year...space opens up, sign weber, buh-bye hartnell/timonen (leaves us space for simmonds, and some extra space for roo/schenn later)
Are you prepared to pay the compensation to sign Weber to an Offer Sheet?


Last edited by VanSciver: 08-11-2011 at 04:14 PM.
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08-11-2011, 04:16 PM
  #44
tuckrr
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Are you prepared to pay the compensation to sign Weber to an Offer Sheet?
No. Because he's an UFA.

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08-11-2011, 04:21 PM
  #45
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No, he's RFA.

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08-11-2011, 04:24 PM
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No. Because he's an UFA.
You're wrong. He is an RFA again next season.

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08-11-2011, 04:40 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
No. Because he's an UFA.
You might want to inform yourself there of the situation.

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08-11-2011, 05:32 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
You might want to inform yourself there of the situation.
woops, i thought you said suter there for a second...yes i'd pay for weber. BUT i expect nashville to have trouble with signing him, so a trade could be better. (id prefer a trade)


edit: also, if he signs a 1 yr through 12-13, he will be a UFA in 13 right?

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Old
08-11-2011, 06:00 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Beastieboy View Post
Hockey News Ultimate Pool Guide I just picked up has Leino with 60 points, Jagr with 66 and the "big" Toronto signing Connolly with 44 points. It also has Schenn at 50 (2nd among rookies). If the players get close to those totals the Jagr signing looks pretty good, the Leino signing not bad and the Connolly signing terrible.
The 'Jagr' issue of THN also has the Sabres returning Leino to his natural C position. He's their second line centre acc to the depth chart.

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08-11-2011, 06:22 PM
  #50
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I don't think he's played his natural position in the NHL, so I'm interested to see how good he is at it. This team had too much center depth for him t play there.

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