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Preds complete buyout of Brett Lebda - (Signed by Columbus on Jan 19th)

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08-10-2011, 04:40 PM
  #101
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Poile was taking flak in the media for "screwing up this too" as if it was ruled that he messed up the RFA thing (prices he paid to re-sign suggested he did not) and then got this wrong, too (which he did not). Anyway, good result.
So he gave Franson and a 4th rounder for nothing?? Yeah we're saving money,but He's not doing anything with the savings. If it's not being allocated to improve the team what's the point???

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08-10-2011, 04:51 PM
  #102
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So he gave Franson and a 4th rounder for nothing?? Yeah we're saving money,but He's not doing anything with the savings. If it's not being allocated to improve the team what's the point???
Just who was available at the time he dumped Lombardi's dead weight contract?

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08-10-2011, 05:14 PM
  #103
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Just who was available at the time he dumped Lombardi's dead weight contract?
He could have signed someone before the dump, or not made the trade if he was going to do nothing anyways.

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08-10-2011, 05:40 PM
  #104
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He could have signed someone before the dump, or not made the trade if he was going to do nothing anyways.
Lombardi had absolutely no use on this team. Getting rid of him was necessary regardless if we end up using the freed salary or not (which we will). Sure, it would have been nice to get a better return, but I don't see too many GMs lining up to trade for a concussed, uninsured, overpaid, defensive center. I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto was the only team open to such a trade.

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08-10-2011, 06:24 PM
  #105
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The whole point of moving Lombardi now is that someone thinks he might still have a chance to play. If he's still sitting at his house with the lights off in January, how are you going to get that 7 million dollars off the books? The move was done to gain flexibility to make a move when one is available. People can whine all they want, but I'd rather do nothing than give Erik Cole 18 million dollars. A move will come, whether during training camp or a little bit into the season, but it's not like they're sitting there doing nothing. It'd be stupid to just sign someone for the hell of it.

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08-11-2011, 12:07 AM
  #106
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He could have signed someone before the dump, or not made the trade if he was going to do nothing anyways.
Who? Realistically, who?

Brad Richards was only going to play for Torts. The Carter deal involved the #8 overall and a NHL proven 3rd line forward with 2nd line potential. The Mike Richards deal sent a little better quality forwards to Philly than we had to offer ... but in both trades by Philly they took forwards, not blueliners, in trade. Or should we have thrown almost $4mil at Upshall or Leino?

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08-11-2011, 08:14 AM
  #107
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You've got your head in the sand if you belive that DP did absolutely everything he could possibly have done to improve the team this offseason.

It's not like Brad Richards was the only free agent who could have helped our team.

Don't like Cole, or Gagne, or Fleishmann, or whatever? Don't like those prices? Ok. What's he waiting on, Sidney Crosby to come knocking on the door and offering to play for 2 mil? Free agents are always expensive - it's the cost of doing business.

Our most important player and team captain refuses to sign on long term because he's questioning the direction of the franchise, and our response to this was to trade away a solid defenseman for nothing and then stick the salary savings in our pocket.

And the whole "well, we'll just have flexibility for adding a piece later" thinking is flawed. If you think Simon Gagne or Erik Cole is a flawed player, just wait until we have to trade away major assets for a hospital case like Ales Hemsky. Ovechkin won't be on the block. Neither will Patrick Kane. The guys who will be available will be flawed, and expensive. Else they wouldn't be available.

Not to mention - with a full season of a quality forward like Cole or Gagne- we might not have to make the deadline deal we always have to just to secure a 6-8 seed.

I'm more than willing to eat some crow - maybe Bergfors turns into that dynamic scorer people thought he might be when they picked him in the 1st round and maybe Colin Wilson pots 30 and Hornqvist gets back to being the old Horny and the kids all reach their potential.

But the odds are favoring another scrappy season lacking goals and with a punchless powerplay, fighting for the 6-8 seed and another valiant losing effort in the playoffs where we all say "geez, if we'd only have been able to add that one piece".

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08-11-2011, 08:27 AM
  #108
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As mentioned, the success of this trade will hinge on what Poile does with the money. So far, it's a total dud. It's nice to free up cash for a huge off season (next), but it's not going to be as busy unless you make a move to show management is committed to spending the necessary coin to take this team to the next level.

I agree that Poile's window is closing rapidly. I will assume that Suter and Rinne will have similar interests and stipulations as Weber. Something does need to happen over the next couple weeks, or we could be looking at a drastically different team in 2012/2013.

One last thing about that trade... It sucks that DP couldn't have at least gotten a 3rd or 4th out of that deal.

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08-11-2011, 08:39 AM
  #109
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You've got your head in the sand if you belive that DP did absolutely everything he could possibly have done to improve the team this offseason.........

RD beat me to the punch....what he said.

I get tired of people saying "who could we get, Player X who has flaws or Player Y who got paid too much?" as if the literal list of players available is comprised of only those players who actually get dealt or are FA's. Seriously? Why keep repeating that same old crap defending Poile's moves (lack of moves) year after year? If your name isn't Crosby or Ovechkin, you are available. The "who could we get" question is tired, false and a copout.

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08-11-2011, 09:38 AM
  #110
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The offseason isn't close to over yet.

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08-11-2011, 11:32 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Preds Partisan View Post
RD beat me to the punch....what he said.

I get tired of people saying "who could we get, Player X who has flaws or Player Y who got paid too much?" as if the literal list of players available is comprised of only those players who actually get dealt or are FA's. Seriously? Why keep repeating that same old crap defending Poile's moves (lack of moves) year after year? If your name isn't Crosby or Ovechkin, you are available. The "who could we get" question is tired, false and a copout.
and I get tired of the same old "Poile did nothing...," "Poile didn't even try to improve the team..." blah, blah. People have their heads in the sand if they think the gm is just sitting in his office playing angry birds all day.

In the end we are all named Sgt. Schultz, because WE KNOW NOTHING!!!!!!
Maybe the other players didn't want to come here, maybe the org. felt the player didn't fit the system, WHO KNOWS. The same goes for trades.

I understand the frustration, I do. I also want to see something done to improve the team, but we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I also don't want players brought in just to say "Hey look! We have a shiny new free agent!"
If anybody can provide some concrete evidence that Poile didn't even try to make a move, I'd love to see it.

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08-11-2011, 11:36 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by hatedandproud View Post
and I get tired of the same old "Poile did nothing...," "Poile didn't even try to improve the team..." blah, blah. People have their heads in the sand if they think the gm is just sitting in his office playing angry birds all day.

In the end we are all named Sgt. Schultz, because WE KNOW NOTHING!!!!!!
Maybe the other players didn't want to come here, maybe the org. felt the player didn't fit the system, WHO KNOWS. The same goes for trades.

I understand the frustration, I do. I also want to see something done to improve the team, but we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I also don't want players brought in just to say "Hey look! We have a shiny new free agent!"
If anybody can provide some concrete evidence that Poile didn't even try to make a move, I'd love to see it.
Trying to get something done doesn't win the cup. Good GM's find a way to get it done. Now there's 3 major contracts breathing down Poile's neck. As triggrman said, the offseason isn't over yet. I agree, but camp is soon and that window is closing rapidly.

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08-11-2011, 12:27 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Trying to get something done doesn't win the cup. Good GM's find a way to get it done. Now there's 3 major contracts breathing down Poile's neck. As triggrman said, the offseason isn't over yet. I agree, but camp is soon and that window is closing rapidly.
Now finding a way to get it done, does that mean giving "player X" whatever he wants just get him signed?
If not, how is a gm supposed to get it done if the player doesn't agree to the offer he's given?
I guess I just don't get what people expect to happen here. It's not like this is a grocery store and "we" can just pick a player and he is supposed to sign with our team without question; or some other gm is supposed to accept a trade offer with out question.

And yes, the offseason is starting to wind down, but that doesn't mean all is lost if "we" don't acquire a new player.

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08-11-2011, 12:43 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Trying to get something done doesn't win the cup. Good GM's find a way to get it done. Now there's 3 major contracts breathing down Poile's neck. As triggrman said, the offseason isn't over yet. I agree, but camp is soon and that window is closing rapidly.
In a way I feel bad for the new Preds fans from Atlanta... so fresh to David Poile. Resistance is futile, DP is the only way. What he says and what he does is the only acceptable course of action, no other possibilities for the roster exist outside of what DP has set forth. No other roster moves are logical and to suggest otherwise is the ultimate sign of stupidity and irrationality. Never question David Poile.

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08-11-2011, 12:56 PM
  #115
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Now finding a way to get it done, does that mean giving "player X" whatever he wants just get him signed?
If not, how is a gm supposed to get it done if the player doesn't agree to the offer he's given?
I guess I just don't get what people expect to happen here. It's not like this is a grocery store and "we" can just pick a player and he is supposed to sign with our team without question; or some other gm is supposed to accept a trade offer with out question.

And yes, the offseason is starting to wind down, but that doesn't mean all is lost if "we" don't acquire a new player.
I know we can't force a guy to sign.

But history shows that we're something above the level of Edmonton when we attempt to sign free agents. Guys like Kariya, Lombardi, Arnott, Dumont were all guys who had other options. We're not exactly the Rangers, but I don't buy the line that no one would take our money.

And, like other posters have said - you've got to find a way to get it done. If we need more offense to make us a better team, then DP has to figure out a way to get more offense.

Maybe DP honestly believes that Spaling is a top 6 forward and Bergfors is the key and blah blah blah. But i've watched the same old Preds team with the same old problems take the ice for most of a decade now. Only the players change. I'm a little skeptical.

The offseason isn't over yet. And there's a long way to go until next April's playoffs. But this offseason has been one giant charlie foxtrot.

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08-11-2011, 01:01 PM
  #116
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In a way I feel bad for the new Preds fans from Atlanta... so fresh to David Poile. Resistance is futile, DP is the only way. What he says and what he does is the only acceptable course of action, no other possibilities for the roster exist outside of what DP has set forth. No other roster moves are logical and to suggest otherwise is the ultimate sign of stupidity and irrationality. Never question David Poile.


I have a ways to go, huh.

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08-11-2011, 02:38 PM
  #117
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In a way I feel bad for the new Preds fans from Atlanta... so fresh to David Poile. Resistance is futile, DP is the only way. What he says and what he does is the only acceptable course of action, no other possibilities for the roster exist outside of what DP has set forth. No other roster moves are logical and to suggest otherwise is the ultimate sign of stupidity and irrationality. Never question David Poile.
Well, its not so much that as it is that despite any frustration you may have, a reasonable person can look at what poile has done and come to the conclusion that he is connsidered one of the top GMs in the league exactly because he is prudent and doesnt make rash moves and throw out huge contracts every summer, or trade our whole prosepect pool evey season at the deadline for some aging former hotshot.

Its frustratiing as hell to have to sit tight until an acceptable move comes along but the results, when compared to most other teams, are pretty good.

Personally I think most folks are still spoiled from the late Leipold years, when we signed Kariya one summer, Arnott the next, then traded for Forsberg.

Its not gonna be like that every year. There are 30 teams and they all want to get better. Some make slpashy moves, some are more deliberate. And every year we seem to finish ahead of many of them.

So its not that Poile is beyond questoning, its just some of what people claim he should do is unreasonable or downright impossible.

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08-11-2011, 03:11 PM
  #118
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I'm an outspoken critic of David Poile's strategies being too extreme and not having faith in his abilities to take this team to the next level.

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a reasonable person can look at what poile has done and come to the conclusion that he is connsidered one of the top GMs in the league exactly because he is prudent and doesnt make rash moves and throw out huge contracts every summer, or trade our whole prosepect pool evey season at the deadline for some aging former hotshot.
For example, Voldy is absolutely correct that any reasonable person can see that Poile is one of the best GMs in the league- at building a competitive team on a budget. That said, he's never shown the ability to create and maintain a Cup winner on any budget. The one time he came close (in Washington), he walked away from Stevens' (EDIT: correcting as it wasn't an arbitration award) after he signed an offer sheet.



Now, all that said, it was obvious from day 1 that Lebda was either going to be bought out or spend the year in Milwaukee. Buying him out is the better of those two options. I don't have a problem with the trade now or then. Poile was not going to get a forward that mattered this year in that trade.

Trig is right, this year isn't over yet. Poile knows the lay of the land, at least as it is with Weber. He'll learn it with Suter and Rinne if he doesn't know it already.

Let's see what he does with that going forward into and through this season and what ultimately happens with each of the big 3.


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08-11-2011, 04:12 PM
  #119
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So he gave Franson and a 4th rounder for nothing?? Yeah we're saving money,but He's not doing anything with the savings. If it's not being allocated to improve the team what's the point???
"Not doing" doesn't equal "won't do".
He has cash now. He hasn't spent it yet. You can't, in my view, complain about it until after the upcoming trade deadline. Sometime between now and then he can spend the money to make our team better for the playoffs. The longer he waits, the more "annual salary" he can take on. In fact, an infusion of equity from Bret Wilson or others may allow that larger annual salary to also be longer term than we can take now.

The jury is out- you may have a legit complaint later but not now IMO.

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08-11-2011, 05:44 PM
  #120
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I'm an outspoken critic of David Poile's strategies being too extreme and not having faith in his abilities to take this team to the next level.



For example, Voldy is absolutely correct that any reasonable person can see that Poile is one of the best GMs in the league- at building a competitive team on a budget. That said, he's never shown the ability to create and maintain a Cup winner on any budget. The one time he came close (in Washington), he walked away from Stevens' (EDIT: correcting as it wasn't an arbitration award) after he signed an offer sheet.



Now, all that said, it was obvious from day 1 that Lebda was either going to be bought out or spend the year in Milwaukee. Buying him out is the better of those two options. I don't have a problem with the trade now or then. Poile was not going to get a forward that mattered this year in that trade.

Trig is right, this year isn't over yet. Poile knows the lay of the land, at least as it is with Weber. He'll learn it with Suter and Rinne if he doesn't know it already.

Let's see what he does with that going forward into and through this season and what ultimately happens with each of the big 3.
what I have a problem with is the extreme characterization of anyone who has faith that poile will keep moving the team in the right diection as some kind of Stepford fan who, like Kevin Bacon in Animal House is saying "All is well!"

Just because Im not screaming for Poiles head because Weber signed a one year deal doesnt mean I am an automaton.


My position has always been that poile has had a plan that he only began working on after the firesale and once we had local ownership in place. It appars he is building a team that is going to be based on having at least three solid lines that can score AND play defense. He thought he had that last year until Lombardi, then Goc, then Oreilly all went down.

Getting Fisher merely reset the clock to where he intended to be at the start of last year. With the centers in place I believe he's now looking to upgrade at wing, replacing guys like Ward and an ineffective Sully with players who can score 20 or so.

Right now all he has is Bergfors, which may or may not pan out. If Bergfors is another Kostitsyn, Poile is a genius and even with no additional help we should be no worse than last year , a 4/5 seed, which wouldnt be all that bad.

And if he can land us another player similar in scoring ability to the Sully or Dumont acquistions of years past, we should be in a position to compete for the division.

So as much as I would love to see us get Parise, or Bobby Ryan, or some other 40+ goal scorer, all we really need is the reincarnation of Sully or Dumont. And I have plenty of faith that Poile can get us that kind of player, sometime this year.

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08-11-2011, 06:33 PM
  #121
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For example, Voldy is absolutely correct that any reasonable person can see that Poile is one of the best GMs in the league- at building a competitive team on a budget. That said, he's never shown the ability to create and maintain a Cup winner on any budget. The one time he came close (in Washington), he walked away from Stevens' (EDIT: correcting as it wasn't an arbitration award) after he signed an offer sheet.
I think this is BS frankly. He patiently built the Preds to the point of the 06-07 season...from scratch. In that season the preds were 3rd in the league in points. He had acquired Paul Kariya, traded for Sully, acquired JP and Arny and ultimately traded for Forsberg.

The Preds had the 3rd best record in the league (not division, not conference) behind only the Red Wings and Sabres. They had more wins than the Wings but less OTL's.... 3 measely points from being the #1 seed in the West. We had Must See TV as the best goalie in the league. We had a whopping 272 goals. We had a goal differential of +60, the sign of a dominant team.

That team featured baby players like Hartnell, Weber, Suter, Hamhuis and Radulov.
It had everything to win a cup. Everything. Speed, balance, offense, defense, goaltending, toughness, role players.

Then they **** the bed against the Sharks. Good teams do that sometimes before they learn to win. That was a cup contending team if left intact for several seasons.

Then Liarpold shot our franchise in the head and left it to die.

Poile started over, almost from scratch. Lost Vokoun, lost Hartnell, lost Timmonen, lost Forsberg. All as a direct result of ownership. Lost Rads (maybe you can blame him but who knows how this would have turned out). Bye-bye Zids, Zanon, Kariya. Re-build turned over Mason, Hamhuis, JP, Arny, Sully, plus role players.

That 06-07 team had a 3-5 year window with a legit chance to win a cup. Instead, we nearly died but somehow underwent a not-too-painful rebuild that kept us out of the cellar and has us positioned where we are today. We stand a piece or two away from another window that could open for a team built on dominant defense and goaltending.... one of the youngest few teams in the league. One or two of those pieces could already be in house- Ellis, Wilson, Smith, Bergfors. One or two could be acquired this season with our available cash. One could be back next year in Rads.

Can Poile (or Weber/Suter/Rinne or injury or space debris) screw it up? Yes.

But the notion that Poile can't/has never built a team capable of going the distance is like an old wive's tale- a convenient but lazy way to order your life around a misreading of the world around you.

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08-11-2011, 10:08 PM
  #122
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You make good points, and eloquently, but...as they say, the proof is in the pudding. To simplify it: Poiles reputation in Washington was as a conservative GM that could draft and develop defensemen and goaltenders, but produced teams that struggled offensively. His drafting tenure produced notable names on the back end, but was frighteningly checkered when it came to finding offensive forwards, particularly in the early rounds. As a team, they were known for being consistent. They made the playoffs most every year. However, they made the ECFs only once in that time, and lost. Most seasons they lost in the first round, with several more in the second. Fans regarded him as the architect of "good" teams that were always competitive, but he was never able to figure out how to put together the sort of "great" team that could make it over the hump.

Does any of that sound familiar?

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08-11-2011, 10:45 PM
  #123
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You make good points, and eloquently, but...as they say, the proof is in the pudding. To simplify it: Poiles reputation in Washington was as a conservative GM that could draft and develop defensemen and goaltenders, but produced teams that struggled offensively. His drafting tenure produced notable names on the back end, but was frighteningly checkered when it came to finding offensive forwards, particularly in the early rounds. As a team, they were known for being consistent. They made the playoffs most every year. However, they made the ECFs only once in that time, and lost. Most seasons they lost in the first round, with several more in the second. Fans regarded him as the architect of "good" teams that were always competitive, but he was never able to figure out how to put together the sort of "great" team that could make it over the hump.

Does any of that sound familiar?
Here something Ironic the year that the Caps made it to the Cup Finals 97-98 and swept out by Detroit 4-0. The Caps top scorer was Peter Bondra who scored 52 goals that year the next best goal scorer was Adam Oates with 18 does that sounds like the formula that is all the Preds lack for them to do what the caps did

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08-12-2011, 12:12 AM
  #124
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RD beat me to the punch....what he said.

I get tired of people saying "who could we get, Player X who has flaws or Player Y who got paid too much?" as if the literal list of players available is comprised of only those players who actually get dealt or are FA's. Seriously? Why keep repeating that same old crap defending Poile's moves (lack of moves) year after year? If your name isn't Crosby or Ovechkin, you are available. The "who could we get" question is tired, false and a copout.
So no discussion ... just I must have my head in the sand for questioning who was a realistic acquisition. OK. It must be very simple to gripe without having to look at who is on the market, what it would take to get them, and then if that cost makes sense for the Preds. I'll avoid accusations of heads lodged someplace.

The UFA market was absolutely stupid this season with teams vastly overpaying for players who won't bring the type of impact that we'd like. When Uppie is getting $3.5mil and Leino is a $4.5mil hit with $9mil in signing bonuses in the first two years that route pretty much became on non-starter from the beginning. Cole would have been a great acquisition, but, without knowing what (if anything) we offered and what his desires/demands were there is no way for us to know if Nashville was even a destination he considered. After years in small market Carolina he may have wanted the big market atmosphere, or maybe Poile just didn't offer enough, or some other variable.

Poile makes moves that every single one of us question. He picks up players that have us scratching our heads and misses out on guys that message boards scream that we need. He has managed to do more on a tight budget than a lot of teams do spending to the cap.

He's still got about six weeks to acquire a scorer. There are a couple of kids in Toronto who have demonstrated the ability to net 25+ per year who are still very affordable including one who is still a RFA at the end of his current deal, I'd love to see us pull Skinner onto the roster but that is a pipe dream. With several teams bumping against the cap, there will be deals between now and opening night ... the question is if the Preds will be part of them.

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08-12-2011, 06:56 AM
  #125
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According to CapGeek, after the buyout, we are now $125,000 over the cap floor.

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