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Unofficial Offseason Trade Rumor/Proposal Thread | Part VII

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Old
08-12-2011, 12:26 AM
  #51
Bryanbryoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
I've seen you reference this a couple times now, do you have a link or some kind of proof that shows how Gagner tested at the combine?
Check out IATL's post that I quoted below. IIRC I read it somewhere as well. IIRC he did a solitary pushup.

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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
OK , you have reasons . Thank you for sharing those with me . I didn't watch the combines much but I did hear that RNH could only do twenty six pushups . That's less than half of what I can do .... and screams weak to me .
I do have some faith in the Oiler scouts and agree that they must be convinced RNH will develop more/faster physically than Gagner has . Were it not so they would be repeating a mistake , right ?

I already said why I think he will not initially be any stronger than Gagner . Gagner didn't have trouble with physical weakness in junior - even at WJC . RNH was getting bodied off the puck at will in the red/white game . You saw that right ?
I did not catch the Red/White games, however it was said that he either had or was just getting over the flu, either way that will usually take the wind out of anyone's sails. I'll defer to your opinion on that. Also this is a different head scout than what was here when we picked Gagner. Eberle was on his watch and he's pretty strong for a smaller guy.

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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Hopkins did eight reps on the bench press.

Pretty sure Gagner did either one or zero. I think it was zero tbh.

If you go to youtube and search you will find a video of Gagner and another guy going through the different stations. It was a promo for some training academy. It showed the other guy do some reps on the bench but the Gagner footage was conspicuously absent.

Hopkins is stronger than Gagner, both in strength and on his skates. Yet he is four years younger.

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Old
08-12-2011, 12:44 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
I think you're just mad they didn't draft your golden boy Larsson.

has more to do with the fact the best part of not living in North America I get to look at things a little differently then those who live and breath inside the bubble. Leading into this draft a few of the eastern stations they all were saying more or less the same thing. That this draft was more of a development draft where the teams that have better development systems and don't rush the players will be the ones that win the draft and not the teams that look at a players drafting postition and think he will be good to go. RNH has almost zero international experience and has had 13 playoff games in WHL. Unlike Hall who left junior with nothing left to prove--RNH has not proven that much. While everyone goes on and on about his 106pts--I look at that 75 came as assists. I truly believe that if the oilers rush the kid this pick will blow up in their face. I look at how the oilers developed Eberle and how nearly everyone is looking at him as the future number 1 RW on this team. He is a smallish fW and the oilers took their time and it looks like it will be paid off is spades

I think some people are looking at "Oh, he is the first overall pick and that means he is an elite player".

A few media sites I go to have compared this draft to 2002 draft minus having a guy like Nash in it.

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08-12-2011, 11:03 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheStig View Post
best case scenerio for RNH he can turn into Doug Gilmour--but Gilmour turned into Gilmour after a few years

I believe some people think RNH will walk in the nhl and be the cats neow from the word go
I don't actually see a lot of people saying that. There are still quite a few that don't know if he even makes the NHL. I don't even see many predicting that he'd have a better year than Hall did last year.

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08-12-2011, 01:21 PM
  #54
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I don't actually see a lot of people saying that. There are still quite a few that don't know if he even makes the NHL. I don't even see many predicting that he'd have a better year than Hall did last year.

Yea, I myself hugest RNH booster *predraft as well) still feel hes need a season with Red Deer.

I just wanted to bring up the whole how many bench presses a player can do. I remember in the cobwebs of my mind..haha how Mario Lemieux couldn't even bench press a 130 pounds. There was a guy with a 6-4 frame.

Don't weigh in on either side - its all about the potential and putting time in the gym that's all there is to it.

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08-12-2011, 01:24 PM
  #55
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IMO he will either not make the team or he'll have a really good rookie year. I don't see much of a middle ground TBH. If he does stay with us unlike Seguin last year he will/should get some decent minutes and especially on the PP.

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08-12-2011, 01:31 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
IMO he will either not make the team or he'll have a really good rookie year. I don't see much of a middle ground TBH. If he does stay with us unlike Seguin last year he will/should get some decent minutes and especially on the PP.
I think part of it is having that Gagner stigma guy shows great in first season, huge expectations the next.

I really wish this team had a St. Louis who is bringing along Stamkos. However, this team is still building for the future imo and there's going to be bumps along the way regardless if hes here this year, or 2 years from now.

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08-12-2011, 01:37 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
I think part of it is having that Gagner stigma guy shows great in first season, huge expectations the next.

I really wish this team had a St. Louis who is bringing along Stamkos. However, this team is still building for the future imo and there's going to be bumps along the way regardless if hes here this year, or 2 years from now.
RNH - Hemsky and Smyth
Hall + Eberle - Horcoff
Paajarvi + Omark - Belanger

Those are each young players "guidance".

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08-12-2011, 01:37 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
I think part of it is having that Gagner stigma guy shows great in first season, huge expectations the next.

I really wish this team had a St. Louis who is bringing along Stamkos. However, this team is still building for the future imo and there's going to be bumps along the way regardless if hes here this year, or 2 years from now.
RNH will have a 19/20 year old Hall and a 21/22 year old Eberle. IMO it won't take long for Hall to grab the team by the horns. If RNH comes along fairly quickly it will be less crucial to have that veteran scorer to take pressure off of them. That said I still like the idea of having a guy like that, I just don't think that it's Hemsky.

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08-12-2011, 01:49 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
I think part of it is having that Gagner stigma guy shows great in first season, huge expectations the next.

I really wish this team had a St. Louis who is bringing along Stamkos. However, this team is still building for the future imo and there's going to be bumps along the way regardless if hes here this year, or 2 years from now.
That's what Smytty is on the team for. Let's just hope he's not teaching Hall and RNH to block 100 mph shots with his face.

And for all the chatter about Gagner vs. RNH on the bench press.

Who cares?

Since when is bench press a translatable hockey skill? Players get tested when they're 18 years old. Not all players physically mature at the same rate. When I was 18 I could rep 220 lbs. My neighbour who was a year younger than me benched a lot less.

My neighbour? He went on to be an NHL goon. Truth be told, he was a lot stronger and tougher than me back then as well, I just had a better bench press.

Long story short, testing an 18 year old on the bench press for how strong they are on the ice is less than useless. And, even though it makes no difference as to what both players turn into, Gagner was definitely stronger in junior than RNH is.

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Old
08-12-2011, 01:54 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bangers View Post
That's what Smytty is on the team for. Let's just hope he's not teaching Hall and RNH to block 100 mph shots with his face.

And for all the chatter about Gagner vs. RNH on the bench press.

Who cares?

Since when is bench press a translatable hockey skill? Players get tested when they're 18 years old. Not all players physically mature at the same rate. When I was 18 I could rep 220 lbs. My neighbour who was a year younger than me benched a lot less.

My neighbour? He went on to be an NHL goon. Truth be told, he was a lot stronger and tougher than me back then as well, I just had a better bench press.

Long story short, testing an 18 year old on the bench press for how strong they are on the ice is less than useless. And, even though it makes no difference as to what both players turn into, Gagner was definitely stronger in junior than RNH is.
I truly feel when it comes to NHL training (not the cardio & Vo2 max those are great conditioning tests) that bench press all of that are useless.

I think the best conditioned hockey players still come from football based programs (lugging stuff, dragging stuff) . The reason I feel that way is there game situations trying to break out while being clutched slightly to get out a corner. Plus hockey your trying to avoid for the most part being trapped or unable to make quick accurate moves from being hit hard.

Really the tests you should be carrying about are all lower body. If you have Sidney Crosby, or Rod Brind Amour sized legs it doesn't really matter much if you can bench press 400 pounds tbh.

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08-12-2011, 02:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
RNH will have a 19/20 year old Hall and a 21/22 year old Eberle. IMO it won't take long for Hall to grab the team by the horns. If RNH comes along fairly quickly it will be less crucial to have that veteran scorer to take pressure off of them. That said I still like the idea of having a guy like that, I just don't think that it's Hemsky.
Yea to me the biggest blessing is going to be Smyth for the office guidance, mentorship + Hall on ice for alleviating the pressure of getting goals, ect.

The one thing I must add is that RNH has an undeniable work ethic this is why I liked guy once I seen him play live.

Better culture this year, winning or losing environment its the situation you make it (I feel) Whether you lose game 7 of the cup finals, or lose in the first game Its all building blocks in getting to that point; whether it be playoffs, or next round, or whatever.

My reasoning for him has changed to why he should go back (more to do with conditioning) than potential of losing environment. Also I want to see him have more of a prominent role I don't see the purpose of getting 3rd-4th line ice time.

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08-12-2011, 04:21 PM
  #62
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Had no idea Jimmy Waite was still playing this past 10 years. I guess he retired today.

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08-12-2011, 06:38 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
I truly feel when it comes to NHL training (not the cardio & Vo2 max those are great conditioning tests) that bench press all of that are useless.

I think the best conditioned hockey players still come from football based programs (lugging stuff, dragging stuff) . The reason I feel that way is there game situations trying to break out while being clutched slightly to get out a corner. Plus hockey your trying to avoid for the most part being trapped or unable to make quick accurate moves from being hit hard.

Really the tests you should be carrying about are all lower body. If you have Sidney Crosby, or Rod Brind Amour sized legs it doesn't really matter much if you can bench press 400 pounds tbh.
kinda OT, but lets go there, why not right?

upper body strength isn't *completely* useless in the NHL, but it is nowhere nearly as important as lower body strength, conditioning and balance... some folks get way too worked up about the bench press results, they really don't matter much at all for 90% of players (especially the finesse offensive players)

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Old
08-12-2011, 08:15 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Hopkins did eight reps on the bench press.

Pretty sure Gagner did either one or zero. I think it was zero tbh.

If you go to youtube and search you will find a video of Gagner and another guy going through the different stations. It was a promo for some training academy. It showed the other guy do some reps on the bench but the Gagner footage was conspicuously absent.

Hopkins is stronger than Gagner, both in strength and on his skates. Yet he is four years younger.
Probably because Gagner made this old list around the same time -

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Watching those vids, he doesn't do any of the upper body exercises you see Legein doing, which supports that.

Not that it matters. Bench presses are not an indicator of hockey strength nor do NHL players or prospects train for it. Recent combines are now published (http://www.topendsports.com/sport/ic...ne-results.htm). This year the average was 6.5 with the max amount of reps by anyone at 13, not exactly stellar stuff.

I even remember an old interview where Willie Mitchell was making fun of Derek Boogard for only being able to bench 130 pounds, not exactly someone you would have thought of as being weak in his upper body.

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08-12-2011, 09:41 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Probably because Gagner made this old list around the same time -



Watching those vids, he doesn't do any of the upper body exercises you see Legein doing, which supports that.

Not that it matters. Bench presses are not an indicator of hockey strength nor do NHL players or prospects train for it. Recent combines are now published (http://www.topendsports.com/sport/ic...ne-results.htm). This year the average was 6.5 with the max amount of reps by anyone at 13, not exactly stellar stuff.

I even remember an old interview where Willie Mitchell was making fun of Derek Boogard for only being able to bench 130 pounds, not exactly someone you would have thought of as being weak in his upper body.
Makes sense. Why would someone bench press if they have an injured shoulder?

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08-12-2011, 10:41 PM
  #66
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Core strength

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Old
08-14-2011, 10:44 AM
  #67
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why haven't the oilers signed McAbe yet? With Hannan signing for 1 mill, the market is set for those who missed the gravy train. One mill with a promise to trade him to a team of his choice at the deadline if we are out of it???

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08-14-2011, 12:36 PM
  #68
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I'm guessing cuz they want a full year out of Petry at the NHL level? Face it, with only 7 jobs available at that position, there isn't really any room left.

Whitney-Gilbert-Smid-Barker-Peckham-Petry-Sutton



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why haven't the oilers signed McAbe yet? With Hannan signing for 1 mill, the market is set for those who missed the gravy train. One mill with a promise to trade him to a team of his choice at the deadline if we are out of it???

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08-14-2011, 01:19 PM
  #69
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I get the impression that petry won't start the year in the nhl

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08-14-2011, 02:03 PM
  #70
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Core strength
More Spinach!

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08-14-2011, 02:31 PM
  #71
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I get the impression that petry won't start the year in the nhl
Yeah, I think he and Chorney will battle it out in camp for that last spot. It seems like management would rather give it to Chorney though.

Although, someone will likely get injured and they`ll both be on the team. I just hope that it`s not Whitney again.

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08-14-2011, 02:44 PM
  #72
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More Spinach!
That only seems to give you oversized biceps...

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08-14-2011, 02:46 PM
  #73
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kinda OT, but lets go there, why not right?

upper body strength isn't *completely* useless in the NHL, but it is nowhere nearly as important as lower body strength, conditioning and balance... some folks get way too worked up about the bench press results, they really don't matter much at all for 90% of players (especially the finesse offensive players)
Agree. Bench press is important for the power forward types. Seeing pictures, guys like Iginla and Lindros had pretty big chests.

For players who play a speed game or a finesse game, it isn't as important.

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08-14-2011, 05:49 PM
  #74
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That only seems to give you oversized biceps...


Now, if you'll notice, the spinach seems to have an effect on the forearms as opposed to the biceps.

It's like you've never seen popeye before.

I wish I was that much of an internet geek.

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08-14-2011, 05:57 PM
  #75
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Now, if you'll notice, the spinach seems to have an effect on the forearms as opposed to the biceps.

It's like you've never seen popeye before.

I wish I was that much of an internet geek.
I was thinking more of when he first eats the spinach:



But, I am still willing to admit defeat ... You are a much bigger internet geek than I

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