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The Hockey News predicts Habs will finish 8th in East

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08-14-2011, 06:07 PM
  #126
gusfring
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
So, they improve a bit and they finish lower than last year?

Makes sense.
Other teams can improve as well, right?

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08-14-2011, 06:45 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Philadelphia wil lbe improved in a couple of years most likely, but their window to win a cup is about 2 seasons, and at that point Timmonen and Pronger will either be gone or salary cap dead weight. They don't have the high end players right now to win, or the cap space to improve in the next year or two (they need to re-sign JVR after this year). Overall I thought their moves in the summer were kind of illogical when placed together.
There move was logical when you factor in that they wanted to ship away their troublemakers.

The same way that not re-signing Koivu was logical when what you want is change your leadership.

Obviously the circumstances are different, but the principle remains.

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08-14-2011, 06:52 PM
  #128
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There move was logical when you factor in that they wanted to ship away their troublemakers.

The same way that not re-signing Koivu was logical when what you want is change your leadership.

Obviously the circumstances are different, but the principle remains.
Yes Goldthorpe, that is if you buy into the theory that Richards and Carter did all that much more partying than the majority of the league. I personally don't.

Either way though, to sign Bryzgalov to a monster deal along with trading away their 2 best forwards didn't really make sense. It was as though they had one GM who was committed to a rebuild and another to win right now.

Not long ago at all Briere was looked at as a soft, injury prone drastically overpaid forward....now he's going to be the Flyers best forward next year?

I just dont buy into Philadelphia, in a few years with a core of Giroux/Schenn/JVR/Voracek they should be lethal...but they will need some defence.

Not really comparable to the Koivu situation at all IMO, one had a team completely overhaul their roster. While another had a team move out 2 of their best forwards, replace them with either really young guys or really old guys and then overpaying a goalie who has almost exclusively played behind a trap oriented team.

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08-14-2011, 07:49 PM
  #129
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So if we got a better return on Kostitsyn we would still do worse?
Do you really think we would get a player who is better than Kostitsyn in a trade?

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08-14-2011, 08:53 PM
  #130
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Do you really think we would get a player who is better than Kostitsyn in a trade?
Some people probably do, and that shows how incredibly underrated he is by most habs fans.

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08-14-2011, 09:22 PM
  #131
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8th is a low-end prediction; THN often tends to low-ball the Habs as a team. But I'd say we finish anywhere from 3rd to 8th.

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08-15-2011, 07:44 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
8th is a low-end prediction; THN often tends to low-ball the Habs as a team. But I'd say we finish anywhere from 3rd to 8th.
like your avatar..

I agree with this, with the additions and injured players returning and don't forget people we have 5 million in cap space still. Much more than our peers. With this cap space we can even get deeper at trade deadline like no other. If we get injury trouble again we have mucho cap space to use. All these points equal at least a top 5 finish in my books.

Yes other teams have improved as well but they are now cap strapped and have little depth or ability to improve during the season unlike our habs.

I like our position and feel confident with a division title.

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08-15-2011, 09:55 AM
  #133
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The Stanley Cup Champions aren't cash strapped. They got about 6 million and will give Marchand 3-4mil of that. A division title may be out of reach, realistically

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08-15-2011, 10:05 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Philadelphia wil lbe improved in a couple of years most likely, but their window to win a cup is about 2 seasons, and at that point Timmonen and Pronger will either be gone or salary cap dead weight. They don't have the high end players right now to win, or the cap space to improve in the next year or two (they need to re-sign JVR after this year). Overall I thought their moves in the summer were kind of illogical when placed together.
It's exactly what I said in my post in different words, but he does not seem to get it. The moves were illogical in terms of where the organization was standing.

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08-15-2011, 10:49 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Do you really think we would get a player who is better than Kostitsyn in a trade?
I don't pretend to know what 29 GM's would be willing to pay for Kostitsyn. So I can't say before hand if the Habs would win or lose a trade until I see what said trade actually ends up being.

I don't think that the Habs need to get a player better then Kostitsyn for it to be a win for us, as it could end up being a player then better fits the team or helps us longer term since one could make a reasonable guess that Kostitsyn will not be back after this season since he'll be a UFA, unless Martin is not here and he has a breakout season.

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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Some people probably do, and that shows how incredibly underrated he is by most habs fans.
I don't think he's underrated at all. He's a skilled player but a very frustrating one to watch. Some fans love him, don't get it myself, I think he's way too inconsistent with his efforts, find myself yelling at the tv way too much just to move his damn feet more as some nights he looks like he'd rather be fishing then playing hockey and I hate that. That said he's got size, takes the body, should be good for 20 goals or so a year, we need him now but perhaps he could be packaged to get something that would help the team more come playoff time. It will be interesting to see what PG does here.

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08-15-2011, 01:06 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I don't pretend to know what 29 GM's would be willing to pay for Kostitsyn. So I can't say before hand if the Habs would win or lose a trade until I see what said trade actually ends up being.

I don't think that the Habs need to get a player better then Kostitsyn for it to be a win for us, as it could end up being a player then better fits the team or helps us longer term since one could make a reasonable guess that Kostitsyn will not be back after this season since he'll be a UFA, unless Martin is not here and he has a breakout season.



I don't think he's underrated at all. He's a skilled player but a very frustrating one to watch. Some fans love him, don't get it myself, I think he's way too inconsistent with his efforts, find myself yelling at the tv way too much just to move his damn feet more as some nights he looks like he'd rather be fishing then playing hockey and I hate that. That said he's got size, takes the body, should be good for 20 goals or so a year, we need him now but perhaps he could be packaged to get something that would help the team more come playoff time. It will be interesting to see what PG does here.
Kostitsyn's the kind of guy that will explode if he winds up playing next to a superstar center. I'm sure that if we deal him to a club with one of those guys, he'll become the next John Leclaire sniper type guy.

I agree, he's totally frustrating. All the tools but no toolbox. He certainly has enough talent to do it by himself but it just seems like it's locked in a box somewhere and only comes out on occassion. I don't understand how talent like his just lies dormant for stretches on end. But Martin hasn't helped the situation.

Why Jacques Martin moves him around I'll never understand. It's painfully obvious that he plays his best hockey with Pleks. He got off to a great start last year on his wing and then Martin messed with it and he never really came back.

I'm passed the point of hoping for this guy to become the star player we all hoped that he would. Right now I'd be really happy if he became a 30 goal scorer and I think that only happens if he plays all the time with Pleks.

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08-15-2011, 01:24 PM
  #137
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THN... Toronto Hockey News
TSN... Toronto Sports Network

I'm positive for this year, I think we'll have a good year.

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08-15-2011, 01:32 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by caper8 View Post
The Stanley Cup Champions aren't cash strapped. They got about 6 million and will give Marchand 3-4mil of that. A division title may be out of reach, realistically
Once the bruins sign the rat they will in fact have considerably less cap space than the habs.

Also counter inthe fact that the Bruins are coming off a very long season (obviously) and had very good luck in terms of injuries for the season and playoffs I don't think the habs winning the division is out of reach at all.

To be honest I'm more worried about the Sabres than the Bruins next year. Although there's the chance that Seguin has a huge break out year.

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08-15-2011, 01:44 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Once the bruins sign the rat they will in fact have considerably less cap space than the habs.

Also counter inthe fact that the Bruins are coming off a very long season (obviously) and had very good luck in terms of injuries for the season and playoffs I don't think the habs winning the division is out of reach at all.

To be honest I'm more worried about the Sabres than the Bruins next year. Although there's the chance that Seguin has a huge break out year.
Boston has over 7 million in cap space without Savard's LTIR which will go to Marchand. So when all is said and done, Boston will have 7 million to spend and a full roster.

Montreal will be a bubble team the same reason why Toronto is a bubble team: young and developing while having every other team pump themselves up and play their best because it is Montreal/Toronto that they are playing against.

Tough night in and night out.

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08-15-2011, 01:46 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
THN... Toronto Hockey News
TSN... Toronto Sports Network

I'm positive for this year, I think we'll have a good year.
Not sure what you're talking about here. They haven't predicted the Leafs in the playoffs for years now and we've been consistently ranked ahead of them.

THN for the past four years:
2008 -2009
Predicted Finish: Montreal 1st Toronto 14th...

Actual finish: We tied for 8th and squeaked in.

2009-2010
Predicted Finish: Montreal 8th Toronto 11

Actual finish: We wound up with 88 points and were very lucky to squeak into 8th.

2010-11
Montreal 8th Toronto 11th

Actual finish: We tied for 6th.

2011-2012
Montreal 8th Toronto 10th

Last time they had us out of the playoffs they got it wildly wrong. 2007-2008 we were predicted to finish 13th and TO was predicted to finish 11th. They made up for it though by being wildly wrong again the very next season and predicted us 1st and we came in 8th.

Apart from those two years, they've been pretty accurate on us and TO.

This whole mantra about us being consistently underrated is a load of crap. We're almost always picked ahead of TO in these things but posters keep coming here and whining that we're the ugly stepchild. Please stop with the 'woah is me' attitude... and bringing up the Leafs. The magazines don't hate us, they just don't see us as being as good as most of the folks here do. And most of the time those analysts have been more right than this forum has. As for the Leafs, they've been pretty accurate about them missing the playoffs too.

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08-15-2011, 01:48 PM
  #141
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Boston has over 7 million in cap space without Savard's LTIR which will go to Marchand. So when all is said and done, Boston will have 7 million to spend and a full roster.

Montreal will be a bubble team the same reason why Toronto is a bubble team: young and developing while having every other team pump themselves up and play their best because it is Montreal/Toronto that they are playing against.

Tough night in and night out.
Ahh yes, I forgot about Savard. I still like the Habs and Sabres chances for the division better than Bostons.

Also, no offence but your comments about why Montreal and Toronto are both bubble teams make no sense. One team has made the playoffs 3 years in a row, and the other has had 3 years in a row of bottom 10 finishes...pray tell how they're both bubble teams

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08-15-2011, 02:15 PM
  #142
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It's obvious they will choose us over Toronto in the standings. They would look like fools otherwise.

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08-15-2011, 02:24 PM
  #143
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These standings predictions are actually good, but I doubt the Caps win the Stanley Cup, even though the Vokoun signing greatly increased the odds of that.

I also think the Habs will finish ahead of TB and NY.

I call Philly or SJ for the SC.

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08-15-2011, 02:41 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
It's obvious they will choose us over Toronto in the standings. They would look like fools otherwise.
So then where's your basis for the Toronto Hockey News and Toronto Sports Network comment?

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08-15-2011, 03:16 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Kostitsyn's the kind of guy that will explode if he winds up playing next to a superstar center. I'm sure that if we deal him to a club with one of those guys, he'll become the next John Leclaire sniper type guy.
I have no fear of Kostitsyn turning into a LeClair sniper type. Imo he doesn't have the will to compete consistently night in and night out.

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Montreal will be a bubble team the same reason why Toronto is a bubble team: young and developing while having every other team pump themselves up and play their best because it is Montreal/Toronto that they are playing against.
The Habs have a good mix of vets and youth, and in no way shape or form should they be lumped in with the leafs who have yet to even make the playoffs since the lockout. I think the Habs will finish ahead of boston in the standings.

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08-15-2011, 03:24 PM
  #146
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So then where's your basis for the Toronto Hockey News and Toronto Sports Network comment?
That they treat Montréal like outsiders.

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08-15-2011, 04:21 PM
  #147
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Glad to hear that Hab fans think they will finish ahead of Boston, you have to stand up for your team after all, we all do it. The people who's opinion I value more then homer fans are the so called experts, we all know who they are ( i.e Hockey News, TSN, Sportsnet, etc ), I suspect the vast majority of them will have Boston ahead of both Montreal & Buffalo, the reason is simple, better all around team, they can adapt to any style, Montreal & Buffalo come January when the games start becoming more intense are going to have problems with physical teams, teams will play the body on them, they will have a much more difficult time of it then the early part of the year.

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08-15-2011, 04:55 PM
  #148
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Glad to hear that Hab fans think they will finish ahead of Boston, you have to stand up for your team after all, we all do it. The people who's opinion I value more then homer fans are the so called experts, we all know who they are ( i.e Hockey News, TSN, Sportsnet, etc ), I suspect the vast majority of them will have Boston ahead of both Montreal & Buffalo, the reason is simple, better all around team, they can adapt to any style, Montreal & Buffalo come January when the games start becoming more intense are going to have problems with physical teams, teams will play the body on them, they will have a much more difficult time of it then the early part of the year.

The problem with the "experts" is that they provide narrative, not analysis.

If the Bruins start off slowly, or don't win the division, we'll see the experts refer to a "Stanley Cup hangover", the grind of the long playoffs wearing them out and so-on while the real explanation for the Bruins regression (using the real definition of regression, and no pun intended) will be Tim Thomas almost certainly regressing back to his true talent level rather (very good rather than historic) and a highly likely regression in team shooting percentage.

That said, if you want to appeal to the authority of so-called experts whose focus is entirely of developing a compelling narrative that is fine, it's what been fed to sports fans since the beginning of time. I prefer to look deeper and look to those who actually perform reasoned analysis. It's more look to find that stuff, and sometimes you have to do a bit on your own, but it gives you a much clearer picture.

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08-15-2011, 05:02 PM
  #149
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To mister the Bruins fan, as we say in french, you shouldn't sell the bear's skin before you've killed it. I think it's going to be a tough battle between the Bruins, the Sabres and the Canadiens. Anyone could come out victorious and win the division.

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08-15-2011, 05:36 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by SPLBRUIN View Post
Glad to hear that Hab fans think they will finish ahead of Boston, you have to stand up for your team after all, we all do it. The people who's opinion I value more then homer fans are the so called experts, we all know who they are ( i.e Hockey News, TSN, Sportsnet, etc ), I suspect the vast majority of them will have Boston ahead of both Montreal & Buffalo, the reason is simple, better all around team, they can adapt to any style, Montreal & Buffalo come January when the games start becoming more intense are going to have problems with physical teams, teams will play the body on them, they will have a much more difficult time of it then the early part of the year.
Nothing like a Cup every 39 years, to bring out the confidence...thanks for coming out man! See ya in January...

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