Detroit last missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons in 1982(!) They've built their team through being consistently competitive, making their franchise attractive to free agents (Chelios, Hossa, Rafalski, etc.) and by developing talent from within (despite drafting low.)
The Penguins and Blackhawks immediately surrounded their young talent with established veterans to help their development. The Isles don't have anyone on their roster who is equivalent to Gonchar, Recchi, Guerin, Campbell, Lang, or Havlat...we're just throwing our young players out there without support and hoping that they figure it out themselves. Which is a strategy that has pretty much never worked in any sport.
To put it another way, the Penguins were a legitimate Cup contender in Crosby's 3rd season. The Blackhawks were a legit Cup Contender in Kane's 2nd season. Here in Tavares' 3rd year, does anyone really see the Isles as a serious title contender?
Kane had Toews (Seabrook, Campbell, Keith, Hossa)
Crosby had Malkin (Hossa, Fleury, Gonchar, Orpik/Letang)
Who does Tavares have?
We need a another star to bring out JTs star power
I didn't read your entire post at first, so I guess I semi-agree with you
But the question then is: is that the case for lack of trying?
We know of attempts to sign Erhoff, Hamhuis and even Kovalchuk.
Who knows how often Snow has had talks about players from other teams, but the price was ultimately too steep.
Or do we want him to sell the farm so that we at least feel like the team is trying to do more to win sooner?
Wouldn't that be Milburyian, if not just a step backwards?
Why must we work in extremes? Sell the farm? Milbury? Not even close, how about overpay moderately to lure ONE quality free agent (no selling of even a calf necessary). I know it's hard to woo free agents b/c of the many stains on this franchise, but I refuse to believe that Snow has significantly outbid other teams on the market. If it means significantly outbidding other teams, so be it. There's cap room, all of the cap-friendly deals Snow was able to work out (e.g. KO, Grabs, Moulson) provides the flexibility to make such a signing. I'm talking one mid-tier free agent here, not a Kovy, Ehrhoff, or Hamhuis (although they would be nice).
I agree with being in the dark to the negotiations Snow has had, we'll never know. Only continue to speculate on these message boards and follow tweets. But if there's a major blemish on the Snow administration, regardless of the reasons, it's been a failure to support the youth with viable veteran talent; that's his responsibility, with some backing from Wang. Here's hoping he helps in that regard before training camp.
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Originally Posted by Caustic Acrostic
While I agree, I think he current market makes the "right" trade questionable.
Look at Wisniewski. He was acquired for a 3rd, played with some jam but wasn't as defensively responsible as Streit, whom he was brought in to replace after the shoulder injury. He gets shipped for a 2nd & a 5th, and suddenly is one of the best paid defensemen in the league....albeit, from a team desperate to be competitive that lacks the ownership issues that have plagued the Islanders since the 90's.
Point being, I doubt Bailey or Comeau could get the kind of D-man we want alone, but sending them both increases the team's chances of losing such a trade by far, since Comeau & Bailey could both still grow to be better complimentary pieces than anything we got back. More players with Comeau's production are paid higher more than not, and both players being in RFA status helps the negotiating power of any team holding those contracts. With offense slowly becoming the greater commodity in the "new NHL," 80 combined points from Bailey & Comeau could be a better thing to have ready than a D-man good enough for any smart trade partner to attempt getting overpaid for.
The team seems to have better luck getting homegrown youth to 'buy in to the plan' more than players picked up in trade - a hindrance that goes back to Muller & Clark. While I don't suggest that the Islanders stand pat, I can see a little justified apprehension to trade 'em both when there's a better chance that the team could succeed through promoting from within (this means you, Wishart & deHaan) than a guy acquired in an overpayment trade just coming in and 'working,' without the team missing the improving production hopefully supplied by Bailey & Comeau.
Guys like Doughty & Suter would require a package like Niederreiter + when keeping such a package could very possibly work better for the Islanders, assuming they let 6 skaters fight over 2 forward spots and 1 blueline spot rather than trade 3 & a pick out for one guy that wouldn't sign here if he was UFA. I see it as the double-edged sword of letting the contracts already here compete and improve rather than trading guys willing to work for it out to acquire a player possibly still biased against the organization/looking for a payday.
Understanding and justification are 2 different things. As much as I'd like to see a trade go down to stir things up a bit, the team could easily be better off letting players fight for it a little, if only not to make a hair-trigger decision on who gets shipped out, and who comes back.
First of all, when I speak of a trade I'm not talking about the Doughtys, Suters of the NHL world, or packaging Comeau, Bailey, Nied. etc.; just a competent top-4 D man. We saw Liles moved for a 2nd, something along those lines. Secondly, the trade scenario could be avoided if Snow went to bat during the free agent period. And yes, if that means overpaying a UFA in terms that would make both him, Charles Wang, and us fans uneasy, so be it. This team needs that support, it's only fair to the investment in youth Snow and Co. have vowed to make. Again just 1 to 2 UFA's, not a team worth, we've already have draftees, bottom-barrel UFA signings, and waiver wires littering the roster (for good reason, no slight at Grabs and co.).
That said, once again, here's hoping he brings in a top-4 D man, at a reasonable price.
I just do NOT want to go through yet another season wondering how good this team could be HAD they added more talent in the offseason. Been two years and counting.
BUF is $3M+ over the cap. Should/Could we make a deal for Shaone Morrisson?
It's ideally NOT what the team is looking for (as he easily categorizes with the Eatons and Mottaus of the world), but we fans should at least be open to a guy like him being picked up shortly before the season. That possibility is very high.
I wouldn't be surprised if Snow has asked about a guy like Gragnani, who looks on the verge of having a Giordano-like role in the NHL very soon. I think Buffalo fully plans to keep him.
In general, if we really think about what type of guy Snow is, and how he obtained Wisniewski and then made the move for Erhoff's rights a few weeks back, we must feel that he has his eyes on a certain few guys around the league. With teams near or at the cap, we'll see another Dman brought in either by invitation to camp or via the waiver wire before the season starts. There will surely be about 5 Morrisonn-like Dman who'll be put on waivers. We won't have to trade for one of those types.
Why must we work in extremes? Sell the farm? Milbury? Not even close, how about overpay moderately to lure ONE quality free agent (no selling of even a calf necessary). I know it's hard to woo free agents b/c of the many stains on this franchise, but I refuse to believe that Snow has significantly outbid other teams on the market. If it means significantly outbidding other teams, so be it.
Again, who's to say that hasn't been the case? After the Yashin and Dipietro contract fiascos and in light of the arena issue as is, we gotta know that the team is not gonna be giving some UFA/RFA a 6-10 year contract. Ain't gonna happen.
A lot seem to value years at the moment.
Do you consider offering Erhoff 5.5 per for 3-5 years to be the properly moderate overpayment? The guy is good, but giving him a 10 year contract, frontloaded with 10 million in earnings next season? That's silliness IMHO....
The word was that the Isles were fully ready to Kovalchuk 10 million per for one or several seasons to come here. Look what got him signed in the long run.
At the moment, we're now going to overpay for Rolston's services - granted gained through a trade that helped both sides.
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There's cap room, all of the cap-friendly deals Snow was able to work out (e.g. KO, Grabs, Moulson) provides the flexibility to make such a signing. I'm talking one mid-tier free agent here, not a Kovy, Ehrhoff, or Hamhuis (although they would be nice).
OK, he quickly signed Reasoner (3rd/4th liner upgrade) and eventually picked up Rolston. Neither a top line scoring upgrade. Still plenty of cap space. Who else of this year's free agents up front do you think we should have lured through overpayment, who you also think we'd have had real good chances getting, who's not on a serious downswing?
I'd actually say Leino, but even then, he's getting a HUGE payday in Buffalo. I don't know if we should be topping that just to top that, especially considering that his 'leadership' value and offensive impact are in question.
With our forward group as is, does it make sense to try and add a Samsonov? Does he help considerably or definitely top the guy he'd be replacing?
He's got experience.
At the moment, I'm trying to think of an UFA I felt was both perfect fro Tavares and seemly signable (i.e. where an overpayment could have gotten him) the past two summers.
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I agree with being in the dark to the negotiations Snow has had, we'll never know. Only continue to speculate on these message boards and follow tweets. But if there's a major blemish on the Snow administration, regardless of the reasons, it's been a failure to support the youth with viable veteran talent; that's his responsibility, with some backing from Wang. Here's hoping he helps in that regard before training camp.
Ok, I agree with this sentiment, but primarily because Weight was hardly on the ice the past two years and a whole season without Streit (not necessarily Mr. Veteran himself) didn't help. This team was lacking big-time in that department. I realize you're talking about a veteran who is also an impact player on the scoresheet.
I'm sure many pundits around the league will argue "Why sign a Frolov or Ponikorovsky for 3 million per when you can slide under the radar by signing a more effective Moulson and Parenteau?"
This at least speaks for Snow to date. We could be REAL critical if these under-the-radar hadn't somewhat panned out.
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That said, once again, here's hoping he brings in a top-4 D man, at a reasonable price.
I just do NOT want to go through yet another season wondering how good this team could be HAD they added more talent in the offseason. Been two years and counting.
For sure... Definitely felt the team needed that winger for Tavares last summer. Instead we've got Parenteau.
I'd suggest, like in my post before this one, that the team will acquire a Dman before the season begins. If not a good name to inspire us, a recognizable depth Dman per waivers who is lost in the numbers game on his current team.
I'm just wondering what the odds may be of the Isles being interested in Shaone Morrisonn (6'-4", 215, 29 yrs, $2.075M cap hit for this season, UFA next summer)? As most of you may know, the Sabres will likely be moving him to clear cap and roster space and Morrisonn is 8th on their depth chart. They're likely going to try trade options first but, failing that, will then put him on waivers before sending him to the minors.
Would the Isles be a fit?
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Originally Posted by drive45
BUF is $3M+ over the cap. Should/Could we make a deal for Shaone Morrisson?
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt
It's ideally NOT what the team is looking for (as he easily categorizes with the Eatons and Mottaus of the world), but we fans should at least be open to a guy like him being picked up shortly before the season. That possibility is very high.
I wouldn't be surprised if Snow has asked about a guy like Gragnani, who looks on the verge of having a Giordano-like role in the NHL very soon. I think Buffalo fully plans to keep him.
There will surely be about 5 Morrisonn-like Dman who'll be put on waivers. We won't have to trade for one of those types.
Regarding Gragnani, you're right - the Sabres won't part with him until at least next summer, when his contract expires and they'll have a better picture of what he can do at the NHL vs. the development of their other defensive prospects with similar offensive capabilities.
As for Morrisonn, he's only 29, has decent size (6'-4", 215) and an UFA next summer. I'd think those traits won't be that tough a sell compared to other waiver possibilities.
Regarding Gragnani, you're right - the Sabres won't part with him until at least next summer, when his contract expires and they'll have a better picture of what he can do at the NHL vs. the development of their other defensive prospects with similar offensive capabilities.
As for Morrisonn, he's only 29, has decent size (6'-4", 215) and an UFA next summer. I'd think those traits won't be that tough a sell compared to other waiver possibilities.
The Isles are overloaded with 4-6 defensemen, which you'd probably agree defines Morrisonn, as he's about number 8 on your depth chart. The Isles are not lacking for NHL defenders. They have depth. They're lacking for top-quality defenders. As I see it, throwing Morrisonn on top of what they have adds a body, but it doesn't address the real problem...a d-partner for Streit on the top pairing. They should be set at 3 and 4 with MacDonald and Hamonic, who took top-pairing responsibilities last year when Streit went down. They have more than enough candidates to fill 5 and 6 with Mottau, Eaton, Jurcina, Reese and Wishart...plus some young guns that might be ready for a look during the season as injuries occur. They need someone in the 2 spot, and probably have to go the trade route to get it.
First of all, when I speak of a trade I'm not talking about the Doughtys, Suters of the NHL world, or packaging Comeau, Bailey, Nied. etc.; just a competent top-4 D man. We saw Liles moved for a 2nd, something along those lines. Secondly, the trade scenario could be avoided if Snow went to bat during the free agent period. And yes, if that means overpaying a UFA in terms that would make both him, Charles Wang, and us fans uneasy, so be it. This team needs that support, it's only fair to the investment in youth Snow and Co. have vowed to make. Again just 1 to 2 UFA's, not a team worth, we've already have draftees, bottom-barrel UFA signings, and waiver wires littering the roster (for good reason, no slight at Grabs and co.).
That said, once again, here's hoping he brings in a top-4 D man, at a reasonable price.
I just do NOT want to go through yet another season wondering how good this team could be HAD they added more talent in the offseason. Been two years and counting.
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Originally Posted by Veteran journeyman
The Isles are overloaded with 4-6 defensemen, which you'd probably agree defines Morrisonn, as he's about number 8 on your depth chart. The Isles are not lacking for NHL defenders. They have depth. They're lacking for top-quality defenders. As I see it, throwing Morrisonn on top of what they have adds a body, but it doesn't address the real problem...a d-partner for Streit on the top pairing. They should be set at 3 and 4 with MacDonald and Hamonic, who took top-pairing responsibilities last year when Streit went down. They have more than enough candidates to fill 5 and 6 with Mottau, Eaton, Jurcina, Reese and Wishart...plus some young guns that might be ready for a look during the season as injuries occur. They need someone in the 2 spot, and probably have to go the trade route to get it.
Great assessment.
The fact that we're looking specifically for a #2 d-man is what makes this a rough trade to suss out. To fill that spot best, it will take a serious package, such as the ones being discussed on the latest "Isles considering Doughty" thread. If the team does that, it becomes a matter of trading 4 likely decent-very good futures for one near-top notch right now.
The trade that I'd look for is an 'under the radar' trade, a defenseman that has played in a top-pairing capacity that may have recently been usurped by other players. I don't suggest that any of the three names are available, but Derek Morris, Roman Polak and Niklas Kronwall could be about the "caphit-versus-caliber" sort of acquisition that may be easier to acquire - it's less likely that a trading partner would demand the cream of the Islanders' prospect pool.
We're actually pretty close in agreement, BelovedIsles - I'm not seeking extremes and I hope the team doesn't either. There might players out there in the $2m-$3.8m contract range that could possibly be acquired for no more than a player & a pick, rather than the entire top shelf. The necessary packages to snag the above examples may be too rich for Snow's blood, but there's gotta be a player that can be pried away for a less-devastating package somewhere.
Still, the problem is as much the cap floor as is the need for better players. It would be best to take back a cap hit that puts the team a little bit above the floor, but it's hard finding a player that justifies the cap hit who can be acquired with a reasonable package that won't screw up the secondary scoring or hit their stride immediately after getting traded.
Last edited by 88th Precinct: 08-15-2011 at 04:04 PM.
I think at some point Snow will trade a 2012 2nd-6th round draft pick for someone like Mike Komisarek, Ron Hainsy, John Oduya, Flip Kuba, Shaone Morrisson, Keith Ballard, Jaroslav Spacek. (We are not going to make a big trade or get a great D-man in return). Otherwise its signing McCabe.
Not for the sake of giving anyone a pass, but I frequently wonder about how things could have turned out much different with this franchise. The arena was old when Wang took over....the ice sucks, tiles are loose, it's outdated....I really don't see a situation working for a team in that juncture outside of getting bought by someone like Terry Pegula (although my jury's still out until I see Ehrhoff, Regehr & Leino work out well,) where a guy with sick amounts of money can expect a fair return investment from a rejuvenated team lacking the stigma that hinders Wang & the Islanders.
I cut this down for brevity, but thanks for really fleshing this out a bit. That's much closer to where I am at, btw. I could live with the occasional nutty decision from him if he just let the hockey people do what they are supposed to do and not make GM decisions. It is his continued personal involvement in operational matters that bothers me the most, and much of it has to do with Rick. A normal GM allowed to make all GM decisions does something with RD, not keep him around like the sarcophagus of Lenin.
I was more than willing to cut him slack when Snow announced the change to building via the draft. If you poll this entire board most of the posters of teams with low end teams would have an orgasm and a half if their team took this route. I'm with them, to at least get the clean start in, and when you don't have much to begin with anyway, it's not like they had other viable options. I also completely support the team, and hence, "him" in the need for a new arena or hub or whatever. He has been screwed by the politicians and their endless seesaw of I hate you, I love you, what did you do for me lately BS. But his involvement, and the damage it has done, on the ice is separate from all of that. It pisses me off to no end because things could have been better if he just wasn't a micro-manager with the club. Good teams hire good hockey personnel and let them make those decisions. Wang unfortunately gets involved in those decisions, and has hurt the team tremendously by doing so.
On topic, it is getting more interesting as time goes by to see Bailey without a finalized contract. Maybe more to come...
Last edited by A Pointed Stick: 08-15-2011 at 05:33 PM.
I'd suggest, like in my post before this one, that the team will acquire a Dman before the season begins. If not a good name to inspire us, a recognizable depth Dman per waivers who is lost in the numbers game on his current team.
Eric Cole comes to mind as a possible fish that got away, Ian White another. Not superstar signings, but solid additions that would have required overpayment, but not gross overpayment (e.g. 10 mil. per year).
I will consider this offseason mediocre if they fail to sign a qualified top-4 D man. Not a 3rd pairing who can get away with a few minutes in the top-4, or a waiver-wire, under-the-radar pickup that has low risk (e.g. PA, Grabs, Moulson type).
Overall, I'm content with the forward crew, although a veteran winger would be useful for JT. But there's a glaring hole on D, and I'll reiterate, to not add a bonafide top-4 D man is not fair to the team that has coexisted quite nicely over the latter half of the season.
I cut this down for brevity, but thanks for really fleshing this out a bit. That's much closer to where I am at, btw. I could live with the occasional nutty decision from him if he just let the hockey people do what they are supposed to do and not make GM decisions. It is his continued personal involvement in operational matters that bothers me the most, and much of it has to do with Rick. A normal GM allowed to make all GM decisions does something with RD, not keep him around like the sarcophagus of Lenin.
I was more than willing to cut him slack when Snow announced the change to building via the draft. If you poll this entire board most of the posters of teams with low end teams would have an orgasm and a half if their team took this route. I'm with them, to at least get the clean start in, and when you don't have much to begin with anyway, it's not like they had other viable options. I also completely support the team, and hence, "him" in the need for a new arena or hub or whatever. He has been screwed by the politicians and their endless seesaw of I hate you, I love you, what did you do for me lately BS. But his involvement, and the damage it has done, on the ice is separate from all of that. It pisses me off to no end because things could have been better if he just wasn't a micro-manager with the club. Good teams hire good hockey personnel and let them make those decisions. Wang unfortunately gets involved in those decisions, and has hurt the team tremendously by doing so.
On topic, it is getting more interesting as time goes by to see Bailey without a finalized contract. Maybe more to come...
No prob - I actually that you for the good read in your answer. I agree that Wang needs to be kept out of any & all hockey-specific decisions, and I think there's some front office acknowledgment of this, resulting in Snow & Weight seeming to have a little more autonomy than anyone did before the Smyth deal of '06.
Point being, "we're all Islanders".....and until I'm sure that the team is truly being run into the ground on it's own volition, Wang's still the guy who bought the team to keep it on the Island, lost x amount of dollars over x amount of years (we can debate the $20m a year figure that's been bandied around the forum, truth is I admittedly don't know for sure and wouldn't mind seeing figures to back it. Regardless, he's lost some cash on this team), and is still unwilling to back down from breaking ground on a new arena. Until an honest, new potential owner steps up with the same goal, despite his bad moves, he's what we've got, and as far as professional hockey on Long Island goes, for all of his flaws, he's still *cough*...."on our side"...
Trust me, the minute Nelson Peltz decides to pull a Pegula, buy the team, help force an arena into existence and spend to make them competitive, I'll gladly view Wang's ownership just as I view Parenteau's place on the roster: necessary/"fitting" today, but I'm ready to see him jettisoned for better once better comes along.
Again, I agree - we're not very far apart in opinions. The day our team has better, smarter owners I will jump for joy and probably go broke buying random girls drinks at the bar. ....issue being, from today until the day that happens, he owns the team and thus has stock in the teams' future, and the more ground Snow gains as management and Weight gains as 'ambassador'/assistant GM, the more autonomy they'll hopefully wield. The only positive to Wang's meddling is that he really hasn't lately (that we know of.) He started backing off mid-tenure, and now DP's contract is the last player/personnel hurdle of his flawed hockey decision-making process, and DP's got more chances to fail now than ever, with every save Montoya, Nabokov and Poulin make that he himself can't. If he can just keep from meddling long enough to secure the Isles a new home and let Snow & Weight mold a competitive team from what they've got today, he won't EVER be remembered as a great owner, but one that actually may have learned a lesson or two between 2000 & 2006 that eventually helped the team turn it around finally in the 2nd half of his tenure. That's admittedly a long time to learn a lesson, but it's a lesson better learned in Islander blue & orange than Québec's red & blue.
Here's to hoping he's learned that lesson and sticks with the good decisions.
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Originally Posted by BelovedIsles
Eric Cole comes to mind as a possible fish that got away, Ian White another. Not superstar signings, but solid additions that would have required overpayment, but not gross overpayment (e.g. 10 mil. per year).
I will consider this offseason mediocre if they fail to sign a qualified top-4 D man. Not a 3rd pairing who can get away with a few minutes in the top-4, or a waiver-wire, under-the-radar pickup that has low risk (e.g. PA, Grabs, Moulson type).
Overall, I'm content with the forward crew, although a veteran winger would be useful for JT. But there's a glaring hole on D, and I'll reiterate, to not add a bonafide top-4 D man is not fair to the team that has coexisted quite nicely over the latter half of the season.
Who would you suggest at this point, out of curiosity? I took a stroll though Capgeek for d-men with top-4 experience that could help, and the best I could do was Derek Morris and a few others - just for the idea of making a one-for-one + pick trade that won't result in deHaan, Niederreiter or Wishart getting put out on the chop before we have a better gauge on what they can do.
Does anyone think that that Gonchar or Kuba would be a viable option for this team?
Gonchar's slightly tempting, but he'd likely be a stop-gap - not knocking his talent, but he's 37 and getting his money, rebuild or no. I don't know enough about the guy to question his hunger, but players with chips on their shoulders from time spent with previous teams seem to prosper here (Moulson, Streit, Grabner & Montoya specifically.) I've been trying to think of d-men in similar situations and have drawn most blanks so far (other than Derek Morris.....)
Kuba I wouldn't touch unless the Isles were paid well to take him. I'd not trade Bailey for either unless a good pick were coming back the other way, since Bailey's looking like the best spot of bait Snow has to put on the hook.
Gonchar and Kuba finished last season with a -15 & -26, respectively. While the Isles would benefit from a right-handed shot next to Streit in the worst way, I'd look to the more defensively inclined players available. The team should have some solid offense if the 2nd half of last year was any real indicator; the big need to fill is now getting someone on the blueline who can play 20+ minutes a night who's adept at keeping the puck out of the NYI zone. Not sure if any player Ottawa would willingly give up now would be what the Islanders really need.
I'm thinking if we had a list of likely available d-men between 27 & 34 on $2m-$4m contracts that may not have their spot in their current top-2/4 guaranteed without any questionable stats, we may know what doors have likely been knocked on, or at least what the best case scenarios would be for getting a solid player without draining the prospect pool.
Eric Cole comes to mind as a possible fish that got away, Ian White another. Not superstar signings, but solid additions that would have required overpayment, but not gross overpayment (e.g. 10 mil. per year).
Ok, fairly good examples.
For my tastes, Cole signed for too much in Montreal, who desperately needed a scoring forward with his size. Problem with Cole is that he's just never played well outside of Carolina - or without getting a good deal of playing time with Staal.
Ok, he was pretty good with the Eisbären Berlin during the lockout.:-)
White is more of an offensive guy. Not the biggest either - but we'll definitely have to see what Snow does, because we can then compare the guy he eventually gets to the White's of the world.
Again, we can't know if the tires were at least kicked while he was an UFA? Would 3.5 million per for two seasons have swung him to sign with us instead of taking 2.8 million per to be in Detroit?
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I will consider this offseason mediocre if they fail to sign a qualified top-4 D man. Not a 3rd pairing who can get away with a few minutes in the top-4, or a waiver-wire, under-the-radar pickup that has low risk (e.g. PA, Grabs, Moulson type).
For me, the guy they get has got to be a clearly better option (on paper) than Jurcina, Mottau and Eaton. If not, then letting Hillen walk made little sense, because he was at least more mobile and capable of a transition game than those three.
If Snow loves the lower profile under-the-radar guys, I felt Sami Lepisto TRULY fit that billing. It's just a question of time before his 12-15 points and +10 seasons turn into something more.
Still, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this management is truly believing that some combination of Wishart/de Haan is ultimately gonna solve the #4 Dman situation. I'd rather they at least add another Wisniewski who could be made tradeable by the proven improvement of the kids rather than just start out with the kids.
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Overall, I'm content with the forward crew, although a veteran winger would be useful for JT. But there's a glaring hole on D, and I'll reiterate, to not add a bonafide top-4 D man is not fair to the team that has coexisted quite nicely over the latter half of the season.
In the trade suggestion thread, there's been talk of Andrei Kostitsyn due to the whole situation with the coach.
I wonder if Snow could actually pawn off Parenteau in a one-for-one deal?
Just a thought. Is Kostisyn even a guy who would 'improve' JT's line? He's wildly talented, but inconsistent. Like his brother before him, he could just reallllllllly need a change of scenary.
Otherwise, I look forward to three two-way lines, any of which could be the best on any given night, with Tavares ultimately making his line the most potent and important.
With the acquisition of Rolston, I see little reason for either Niederreiter or Strome to be here. At least I don't predict either to play their way onto the team at this juncture. Depth will be problem if Rakhshani, Ullstrom, Colliton, Dibenedetto and maybe McNeeley can't adequately fill in on lower lines at any given time. Maybe this guy Wallace can play on line 4 without a problem. Obviously Gillies will get in a dozen or so games and Haley is looking like a shoe-in for line four.
Like you wrote, a huge boost would come if they add a guy viably capable of that top 4 role. If others play so well that they jump over that addition in the pecking order, then wonderful - at that juncture you can make a trade.
Kuba is an option, but Gonchar is a real financial burden in his current form.
Both could be had for little, prolly.
Kuba's horrible though. We Isles fans always seem content to settle for table scraps. If it's down to adding a body for the sake of adding a body, then no thanks. Just roll with what we have. I would take Eaton on my team before Kuba, and many Sens fans would probably agree.
Kuba's horrible though. We Isles fans always seem content to settle for table scraps. If it's down to adding a body for the sake of adding a body, then no thanks. Just roll with what we have. I would take Eaton on my team before Kuba, and many Sens fans would probably agree.
It's more worthwhile to test Hamonic & Wishart in the top-4 capacity. Hamonic's already done it amazingly well and Wishart's been pegged for that capability throughout his 5 years of pro-hockey. Eaton played pretty fairly pre-injury, so there's already three better options to rely on, should any remaining chance of that magic top-4 d-man trade evaporate.While there are no guarantees of either panning out long term, I'd sooner take advantage of 2 solid prospects competing for the big club rather than handing the job to a guy who's already had a lackluster showing in that role with another team.
It's more worthwhile to test Hamonic & Wishart in the top-4 capacity. Hamonic's already done it amazingly well and Wishart's been pegged for that capability throughout his 5 years of pro-hockey. Eaton played pretty fairly pre-injury, so there's already three better options to rely on, should any remaining chance of that magic top-4 d-man trade evaporate.While there are no guarantees of either panning out long term, I'd sooner take advantage of 2 solid prospects competing for the big club rather than handing the job to a guy who's already had a lackluster showing in that role with another team.
This... this is the reason why I didn't like, and still don't like the Wishart for Roli deal. There's a reason he hasn't found the top 4 on the Sharks, Bolts, and now Isles. I just don't think he's very good. From the games I saw on TV, and especially the games I saw at the barn it just seems like this is a guy who doesn't want to get physical. I've never seen a guy of his size be so afraid to hit people. I just don't think he's gonna turn out to be what a 16th overall pick should be (granted it was a weak draft, but still). I'm not now, and won't be convinced he's a solution other than a third pairing until he shows me some hits.
Who would you suggest at this point, out of curiosity? I took a stroll though Capgeek for d-men with top-4 experience that could help, and the best I could do was Derek Morris and a few others - just for the idea of making a one-for-one + pick trade that won't result in deHaan, Niederreiter or Wishart getting put out on the chop before we have a better gauge on what they can do.
Gonchar's slightly tempting, but he'd likely be a stop-gap - not knocking his talent, but he's 37 and getting his money, rebuild or no. I don't know enough about the guy to question his hunger, but players with chips on their shoulders from time spent with previous teams seem to prosper here (Moulson, Streit, Grabner & Montoya specifically.) I've been trying to think of d-men in similar situations and have drawn most blanks so far (other than Derek Morris.....)
Kuba I wouldn't touch unless the Isles were paid well to take him. I'd not trade Bailey for either unless a good pick were coming back the other way, since Bailey's looking like the best spot of bait Snow has to put on the hook.
Not know what goes on behind closed doors, such as what players are available, or what players would be available at the 'right' price, hard for me to comment. Same applies to UFA negotiations, we simply aren't privy to the details. That said, Morris, Kuba, and Gonchar all sound like viable options for a year or two until someone better is brought in, or emerges. For the 'right' price again, like a middling prospect + pick or a part of a larger package for Comeau. All three bring experience, and can log minutes, thereby shouldering the burden from the aging Streit, and newbies Hammer/Amac/Wishart etc.
If there is any substance to those Vlasic rumors, he'd be a great addition; just entering his prime, jives with the age development of the team. Unfortunately, those were fanboy rumors that only come true in NHL '11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt
Ok, fairly good examples.
For my tastes, Cole signed for too much in Montreal, who desperately needed a scoring forward with his size. Problem with Cole is that he's just never played well outside of Carolina - or without getting a good deal of playing time with Staal.
Ok, he was pretty good with the Eisbären Berlin during the lockout.:-)
White is more of an offensive guy. Not the biggest either - but we'll definitely have to see what Snow does, because we can then compare the guy he eventually gets to the White's of the world.
Again, we can't know if the tires were at least kicked while he was an UFA? Would 3.5 million per for two seasons have swung him to sign with us instead of taking 2.8 million per to be in Detroit?
For me, the guy they get has got to be a clearly better option (on paper) than Jurcina, Mottau and Eaton. If not, then letting Hillen walk made little sense, because he was at least more mobile and capable of a transition game than those three.
If Snow loves the lower profile under-the-radar guys, I felt Sami Lepisto TRULY fit that billing. It's just a question of time before his 12-15 points and +10 seasons turn into something more.
Still, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this management is truly believing that some combination of Wishart/de Haan is ultimately gonna solve the #4 Dman situation. I'd rather they at least add another Wisniewski who could be made tradeable by the proven improvement of the kids rather than just start out with the kids.
In the trade suggestion thread, there's been talk of Andrei Kostitsyn due to the whole situation with the coach.
I wonder if Snow could actually pawn off Parenteau in a one-for-one deal?
Just a thought. Is Kostisyn even a guy who would 'improve' JT's line? He's wildly talented, but inconsistent. Like his brother before him, he could just reallllllllly need a change of scenary.
Otherwise, I look forward to three two-way lines, any of which could be the best on any given night, with Tavares ultimately making his line the most potent and important.
With the acquisition of Rolston, I see little reason for either Niederreiter or Strome to be here. At least I don't predict either to play their way onto the team at this juncture. Depth will be problem if Rakhshani, Ullstrom, Colliton, Dibenedetto and maybe McNeeley can't adequately fill in on lower lines at any given time. Maybe this guy Wallace can play on line 4 without a problem. Obviously Gillies will get in a dozen or so games and Haley is looking like a shoe-in for line four.
Like you wrote, a huge boost would come if they add a guy viably capable of that top 4 role. If others play so well that they jump over that addition in the pecking order, then wonderful - at that juncture you can make a trade.
Sorry for replying to all at once, don't feel like chopping it to bits.
Overall I agree with you. Cole was overpaid, but I'd be curious to see what his size and speed could do on a wing with JT. White is adequate, I watched him closely in the PO's and he handled himself well for top-4 responsibility; pretty poised back there.
If they cannot find anyone better than Jurcina/Mottau/Eaton, then heck I would have retained Marty for that matter.
I'd be intrigued by Kost.'s creativity on JT's wing, Snow has something for those under-the-radar reclamation projects? Find it hard to believe he will be consistent with the lunchpail mentality that is in the underlying of the club.
I really like the acquisition of Rolston, cannot underestimate his two-way play, his experience, his outspoken demeanor in a young dressing room, and the guy can still play; he grinds well.
Would be a very useful problem if others jumped over the acquisition in the pecking order. That said, I think we'll see Wishart establish himself as a regular NHL D man, and de Haan will tease us, but his play will ultimately dictate his time at Bridge; check that, I hope it's HIS play that dictates and not injuries, or management's misguidedness in failing to add a top-4 D man.
