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Old
08-17-2011, 04:51 PM
  #26
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Since when is a pure playmaking center who barely ever scores goals not relying on others to produce though? We knew what we were getting with Gomer, it isn't that people think he'll bounce back that I find crazy. What I find crazy is the people who have some ridiculous expectation of Gomer being Joe Thornton.
Exactly, playmakers need people to play with. Gomer had a decent second half too. Forget about his salary. He'll be very tradeable next year when his team salary is very low anyway.

The problem on this team is AK. I'd love to see them turn his salary and our surplus into a big trade somehow.

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08-17-2011, 05:03 PM
  #27
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lol is that mathman?



or is Oliver buying into mathman's agenda
It is highly revealing when someone regards a statement of facts as an 'agenda'

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08-17-2011, 05:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
You're totally right.

Funny thing is, there probably gonna be not more than 5-10 pts between the 5th and 8th position. So how come one of those predictions is absurd, or made by someone who doesn't watch hockey game?
I think it's because people focus too much on seeding and not enough on the actual point tally we should be shooting for.

Anything less than a 100 point season for a team that's been rebuilding for close to 10 years is, at this point, an unmitigated failure. Sure enough though, the mitigation will be there. It always is. Be it injuries, media interference, fan pressure etc.. the apologists will always concoct a handful of excuses that conveniently place blame anywhere but on the players and management.

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08-17-2011, 05:31 PM
  #29
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I think it's because people focus too much on seeding and not enough on the actual point tally we should be shooting for.

Anything less than a 100 point season for a team that's been rebuilding for close to 10 years is, at this point, an unmitigated failure. Sure enough though, the mitigation will be there. It always is. Be it injuries, media interference, fan pressure etc.. the apologists will always concoct a handful of excuses that conveniently place blame anywhere but on the players and management.
Define rebuilding, I usual use the term for teams that can't make the playoffs and are committed to changing their core group. You seem to define that as any team that is not a top level cup contender which means that about 22-25 teams are rebuilding all the time.

I'd say that Montreal spent 2005-2007 rebuilding, attempted to compete for 2007-09 but failed and rebuilt themselves entirely over the course of 2009-10 and are now trying to be competitive for the 2011-14 period with the current veteran core. Whether that is a wise plan is a subject of innumerable debates.

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08-17-2011, 05:56 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I think it's because people focus too much on seeding and not enough on the actual point tally we should be shooting for.

Anything less than a 100 point season for a team that's been rebuilding for close to 10 years is, at this point, an unmitigated failure. Sure enough though, the mitigation will be there. It always is. Be it injuries, media interference, fan pressure etc.. the apologists will always concoct a handful of excuses that conveniently place blame anywhere but on the players and management.
Rebuilding for 10 years? How many years in the past 10 have the habs made the playoffs? LoL Gainey came in, took a franchise that was a mess and made it respectable and the habs have been competitive almost every year since he came on board.

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08-17-2011, 06:20 PM
  #31
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It's sad certain "fans" practically want this team to fail to push their agenda that we're a bad team.

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08-17-2011, 06:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Rebuilding for 10 years? How many years in the past 10 have the habs made the playoffs? LoL Gainey came in, took a franchise that was a mess and made it respectable and the habs have been competitive almost every year since he came on board.
They had some very high profile misses in the draft and it's cost us. We probably could have snagged Carey Price by picking up a low first rounder and taken Kopitar instead (a big, skill centerman we still badly need). And passing over a big Canadian boy like Getzlaf and getting outbid by Jersey for Parise was inexcusable. We could have had all those guys on cheap entry contracts and loaded up. Not sure what Gainey did to clean anything up. He kept us on the same level with different players, basically. And some players played over their heads and got us some surprising results. Other than the one year Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros, then got fired for it because he had to play fourth liners in the top 6 because we were too soft. There are no excuses. These guys are paid to win and get the job done, and I'm still looking at several of the players on this team and shaking my head at how we're ever going to get a Cup.

PG has already made a dent in that sad history by signing Cole. That signing alone guarantees that we'll improve - if he stays healthy. I'm very happy with our current GM. About time.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 08-17-2011 at 07:09 PM.
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08-17-2011, 08:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
They had some very high profile misses in the draft and it's cost us. We probably could have snagged Carey Price by picking up a low first rounder and taken Kopitar instead (a big, skill centerman we still badly need). And passing over a big Canadian boy like Getzlaf and getting outbid by Jersey for Parise was inexcusable. We could have had all those guys on cheap entry contracts and loaded up. Not sure what Gainey did to clean anything up. He kept us on the same level with different players, basically. And some players played over their heads and got us some surprising results. Other than the one year Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros, then got fired for it because he had to play fourth liners in the top 6 because we were too soft. There are no excuses. These guys are paid to win and get the job done, and I'm still looking at several of the players on this team and shaking my head at how we're ever going to get a Cup.

PG has already made a dent in that sad history by signing Cole. That signing alone guarantees that we'll improve - if he stays healthy. I'm very happy with our current GM. About time.
Since drafting is so easy, tell me who is going to be the best player outside the top10 of the 2011 draft? Please.

Also, Carbo got fired because he sucked. Why do you think he doesn't have a job right now? Because he is very open about it, he wants to coach again, but no team in the NHL wants him, gee I bet he is turning down offers.. Get real. If you do remember the Craig Darby days, than you should be VERY happy with the team Gainey built together.

And to top it all, it was Savard who was running the draft in 03.

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08-17-2011, 08:09 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
They had some very high profile misses in the draft and it's cost us. We probably could have snagged Carey Price by picking up a low first rounder and taken Kopitar instead (a big, skill centerman we still badly need). And passing over a big Canadian boy like Getzlaf and getting outbid by Jersey for Parise was inexcusable. We could have had all those guys on cheap entry contracts and loaded up. Not sure what Gainey did to clean anything up. He kept us on the same level with different players, basically. And some players played over their heads and got us some surprising results. Other than the one year Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros, then got fired for it because he had to play fourth liners in the top 6 because we were too soft. There are no excuses. These guys are paid to win and get the job done, and I'm still looking at several of the players on this team and shaking my head at how we're ever going to get a Cup.

PG has already made a dent in that sad history by signing Cole. That signing alone guarantees that we'll improve - if he stays healthy. I'm very happy with our current GM. About time.
Pretty sure it's all but confirmed that Ottawa wanted Price at 9, so there's no way the Habs would have gotten him with a late round pick. There's zero reason to complain about that pick given what we know now, even if I'd be just as happy today with Kopitar.

And Gainey didn't become GM until May 2003, so I doubt you'll find many fingerprints of his on the draft that occurred one month later considering the guy he replaced remained with the team.


Last edited by Bill McNeal: 08-17-2011 at 08:17 PM.
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08-17-2011, 08:15 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Exactly, playmakers need people to play with. Gomer had a decent second half too. Forget about his salary. He'll be very tradeable next year when his team salary is very low anyway.

The problem on this team is AK. I'd love to see them turn his salary and our surplus into a big trade somehow.


How is AK our only problem?

This is ridiculous.

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08-17-2011, 08:51 PM
  #36
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How is AK our only problem?

This is ridiculous.
Last year, our "problem" was massive injuries and rotten luck with Gomez. And Pouliot.

I don't see how we actually have a genuine problem for the moment. We may lack some incredulous advantage, but we don't have a glaring problem that we haven't fixed for now.

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08-17-2011, 08:51 PM
  #37
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Is someone actually calling drafting Price a "miss"?

Wowzers

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Old
08-18-2011, 01:08 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Define rebuilding, I usual use the term for teams that can't make the playoffs and are committed to changing their core group. You seem to define that as any team that is not a top level cup contender which means that about 22-25 teams are rebuilding all the time.

I'd say that Montreal spent 2005-2007 rebuilding, attempted to compete for 2007-09 but failed and rebuilt themselves entirely over the course of 2009-10 and are now trying to be competitive for the 2011-14 period with the current veteran core. Whether that is a wise plan is a subject of innumerable debates.
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Rebuilding for 10 years? How many years in the past 10 have the habs made the playoffs? LoL Gainey came in, took a franchise that was a mess and made it respectable and the habs have been competitive almost every year since he came on board.
So we've been rebuilding towards making the playoffs? We made the playoffs 12 months before Gainey was hired, and even won a round. Yes, we relied heavily on sublime goaltending to squeak in and win that series, but here we are 10 years later and you can say the same thing about almost any recent edition of our team.

I would think people should expect more than simply backing into the playoffs at this point. Maybe it's just that I have high-end expectations, and believe that management has had the tools and the time to realistically meet them.

As I said earlier, the fluctuations with seedings leads me to put more of an emphasis on our season point totals, and I feel that 100 point seasons should be a good indicator of success. Last season we were about as close to being out of the playoffs as we were to being a 100 point team. 8 teams hit the 100 point plateau last season, putting us in the bottom half of playoff teams. We didn't do much in the playoffs either, and while some take solace in the fact that we lost to the eventual Cup champs, what I took from it was further proof that this team needs not only high-caliber netminding but also for the other teams goalie to downright suck in order to win a series (in 7 games no less).

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08-18-2011, 01:39 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
They had some very high profile misses in the draft and it's cost us. We probably could have snagged Carey Price by picking up a low first rounder and taken Kopitar instead (a big, skill centerman we still badly need). And passing over a big Canadian boy like Getzlaf and getting outbid by Jersey for Parise was inexcusable. We could have had all those guys on cheap entry contracts and loaded up. Not sure what Gainey did to clean anything up. He kept us on the same level with different players, basically. And some players played over their heads and got us some surprising results. Other than the one year Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros, then got fired for it because he had to play fourth liners in the top 6 because we were too soft. There are no excuses. These guys are paid to win and get the job done, and I'm still looking at several of the players on this team and shaking my head at how we're ever going to get a Cup.

PG has already made a dent in that sad history by signing Cole. That signing alone guarantees that we'll improve - if he stays healthy. I'm very happy with our current GM. About time.
OK, since you seem to be an expert at handicapping young players look at this years draft and tell me who will make there NHL club this year, then tell us which players in the top 10 will be a success and which will be a bust after 5 years in the league. I'd love to see your analysis.

The draft is a crap shoot unless its a generational talent. To say after the fact that we blew the draft is laughable. Show me scouting reports from most years and there is certainly fluctuation in who gets picked when, but not by much. The habs got the best goalie to come along in a long time at that draft. Most teams including Boston would love to have him.

"Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros but lost.... blah Blah". We rode a great PP to an outstanding offensive year. Kovy played like a star and we had balanced scoring. We lost in the playoffs because Carbo was unable to adapt his coaching strategy once the opposition figured us out, not because he was forced to do anything like play bottom six more because of toughness. Our soft players don't seem to have a major problem playing the big bad tough bruins. In fact, I think the Bruins were lucky to get by us.

You seem to think its easy to draft and sign UFA's. Getzlaf, Parise, and Kopitar are certainly great players but if it was easy to do then why aren't those three together on another team? Surely at least one of the GM's in the league is as smart as you are? Perhaps there has been a major travesty in the hockey world and somehow your insight has been overlooked? I'm guessing with your keen analysis of drafting and player development that an NHL team will discover their mistake by reading your posts and offer you a scouting job soon.

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08-18-2011, 08:42 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
It's sad certain "fans" practically want this team to fail to push their agenda that we're a bad team.
It depends on what you mean by "fail". Because for some posters, I guess predicting an 6-8th place finish doesn't necessarily means they think the Habs failed.

Tracing the line of a "failure" is pretty subjective (yet interesting). Some could say that any year you don't win the cup is a failure, others could say it is when you miss the playoffs.

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08-18-2011, 11:10 AM
  #41
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29 other teams fail to win the cup every year. It's a combination of hard work, skill and luck. We were short on luck last year, to go along with our lack of scoring(which they're addressing).

I'm curious if these same people(the negative nancy's), predicted all doom and gloom last season to go along with an eighth place finish. Did they predict we'd lose to Washington two years ago in the playoffs, and then again to Pittsburgh? How many times can they use the same excuse that we just got hot goaltending at the right time.

San Jose is the poster child for the "big, skilled, Canadian team", and they've failed to win the cup every year.

I don't care, if someone wants to dislike every thing this team does, and discredit any time they have success, they can. I'm just tired of their arrogance. If anyone disagrees with them, or has any hopes for this team higher than squeaking into 8th place, suddenly they're the idiots.

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08-18-2011, 11:35 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I think it's because people focus too much on seeding and not enough on the actual point tally we should be shooting for.

Anything less than a 100 point season for a team that's been rebuilding for close to 10 years is, at this point, an unmitigated failure. Sure enough though, the mitigation will be there. It always is. Be it injuries, media interference, fan pressure etc.. the apologists will always concoct a handful of excuses that conveniently place blame anywhere but on the players and management.
What I don't get is if all the pessimists are so upset that they need to come on here and cry anytime somebody is optimistic about the team why don't you all just go watch Detroit instead? Clearly you only care about winning and nothing else so you may as well go with the closest thing to a modern day dynasty.

I mean really the way some fans bash anything positive about the habs makes you wonder if they're just closet Nordiques fans who love to ***** and put the team down 24/7.

News flash, there are 30 teams in the NHL. At any given time plenty of them are in the midst of or at the end of a rebuild. How often do these rebuilds get you a cup? Not often actually, more teams have failed re-builds than successful. You're expectations are just too high in sports league of 30 teams and a salary cap. We're still one of the top 50% teams in the league each year and we're even only a few years removed from a 1st overall season. Take a chill pill or go back to following the Avs if you hate this team so much.

Really people make it sound like the "apologists" are the ones who are annoying but the incessant whining of the haters about management coaching or euros is quite frankly about 100x more annoying. Furthermore the haters just hate plain and simple and rarely if ever bring anything to the table of discussion or even have a valid point. There are 30 teams in the league and a salary cap. There are only so many players who want to play for each team. There are only so many quality general managers, coaches and players. Some people around here need a wake up call. Finishing 1st in the East a few years ago and making the playoffs most years is far from a failure.

Were there hiccups along the way? Sure. But we're still in a position that we could go far even now. If you guys are too bias and pessimistic due to various hating to realize that then go follow Detroit because clearly it isn't about being a habs fan to you all, it's only about winning.

I want a cup as much as the next guy but at least I'm realistic enough to realize it's a league with 30 teams and news flash... you guessed it, all of them want to win each year

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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
They had some very high profile misses in the draft and it's cost us. We probably could have snagged Carey Price by picking up a low first rounder and taken Kopitar instead (a big, skill centerman we still badly need). And passing over a big Canadian boy like Getzlaf and getting outbid by Jersey for Parise was inexcusable. We could have had all those guys on cheap entry contracts and loaded up. Not sure what Gainey did to clean anything up. He kept us on the same level with different players, basically. And some players played over their heads and got us some surprising results. Other than the one year Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros, then got fired for it because he had to play fourth liners in the top 6 because we were too soft. There are no excuses. These guys are paid to win and get the job done, and I'm still looking at several of the players on this team and shaking my head at how we're ever going to get a Cup.

PG has already made a dent in that sad history by signing Cole. That signing alone guarantees that we'll improve - if he stays healthy. I'm very happy with our current GM. About time.
Sorry but once you start citing hindsight as an example when we're one of the teams that puts the most players in the NHL, you just lose all credibility. Sorry I'll remember next time I see PG to tell him to break out the old crystal ball and I'll have Miss Cleo's number handy bro

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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Since drafting is so easy, tell me who is going to be the best player outside the top10 of the 2011 draft? Please.

Also, Carbo got fired because he sucked. Why do you think he doesn't have a job right now? Because he is very open about it, he wants to coach again, but no team in the NHL wants him, gee I bet he is turning down offers.. Get real. If you do remember the Craig Darby days, than you should be VERY happy with the team Gainey built together.

And to top it all, it was Savard who was running the draft in 03.
This. And the team won in spite of Carbo not because of Carbo. I think that became painfully clear when the guy couldn't make a line and stick with it to save his life let alone a duo.

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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
It's sad certain "fans" practically want this team to fail to push their agenda that we're a bad team.
We'll win the cup one day and they'll either say one of two things:

1) I supported this team all along and knew PG and JM were geniuses
2) Yeah they won and I'm happy but it was a total fluke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
29 other teams fail to win the cup every year. It's a combination of hard work, skill and luck. We were short on luck last year, to go along with our lack of scoring(which they're addressing).

I'm curious if these same people(the negative nancy's), predicted all doom and gloom last season to go along with an eighth place finish. Did they predict we'd lose to Washington two years ago in the playoffs, and then again to Pittsburgh? How many times can they use the same excuse that we just got hot goaltending at the right time.

San Jose is the poster child for the "big, skilled, Canadian team", and they've failed to win the cup every year.

I don't care, if someone wants to dislike every thing this team does, and discredit any time they have success, they can. I'm just tired of their arrogance. If anyone disagrees with them, or has any hopes for this team higher than squeaking into 8th place, suddenly they're the idiots.
Agreed. I'm just a homer or an idiot because I believe in my team but these arrogant douches are geniuses because they predict what all these so-called "experts" in the media also predict when 9 times out of 10 they've been wrong. I mean if you're such an arrogant ***** and you know how to run a team better then do it or go watch a team who you believe is run better. Cause frankly all the haters really do is hate purely for the sake of hate. The only remotely good point made in this thread was the one about the point differential between 8th and 5th. The rest has been a bunch of hate from a pack of euro-haters and people living in the past and denial about how "easy it is" to win in a 30 team league with a cap. NYR used to even have high salary before the cap world and manage one measly cup in that time.

So even with the money advantage and place to live advantage over most or even every team they only managed one cup a year after we did! The cap came out a decade later! But I guess these geniuses all know better than real GM's and would just be like "hey Stamkos here's an offersheet sign it" etc no problems.

The level of arrogance from all the nay-sayers is bordering on retarded. I'm not saying I know more than management and anyone who does is an arrogant tool.


Last edited by Habs 4 Life: 08-18-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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Old
08-18-2011, 12:09 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Exactly, playmakers need people to play with. Gomer had a decent second half too. Forget about his salary. He'll be very tradeable next year when his team salary is very low anyway.

The problem on this team is AK. I'd love to see them turn his salary and our surplus into a big trade somehow.
The problem on this team has been that we've had too many mediocre forwards and not enough size or grit.
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
It is highly revealing when someone regards a statement of facts as an 'agenda'
Yeah right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I think it's because people focus too much on seeding and not enough on the actual point tally we should be shooting for.

Anything less than a 100 point season for a team that's been rebuilding for close to 10 years is, at this point, an unmitigated failure. Sure enough though, the mitigation will be there. It always is. Be it injuries, media interference, fan pressure etc.. the apologists will always concoct a handful of excuses that conveniently place blame anywhere but on the players and management.
I felt Gainey didn't rebuild aggressively enough but in his defence, we've had some weird things happen too. Higgins, Komisarek, S. Kostitysn... they were all good draft picks that showed promise and then dropped off the face of the earth for one reason or another. We should've had a better core now than we do.

And he deserves huge props for taking Price (even though that was a super lucky lottery pick.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Define rebuilding, I usual use the term for teams that can't make the playoffs and are committed to changing their core group. You seem to define that as any team that is not a top level cup contender which means that about 22-25 teams are rebuilding all the time.

I'd say that Montreal spent 2005-2007 rebuilding, attempted to compete for 2007-09 but failed and rebuilt themselves entirely over the course of 2009-10 and are now trying to be competitive for the 2011-14 period with the current veteran core. Whether that is a wise plan is a subject of innumerable debates.
Heard that argument before and it's silly... Just because you aren't a contender doesn't mean that you're actively rebuilding. Look at the Leasfs for the past decade...
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
It's sad certain "fans" practically want this team to fail to push their agenda that we're a bad team.
Or maybe they want the team to win a cup and feel that we aren't good enough to get there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Rebuilding for 10 years? How many years in the past 10 have the habs made the playoffs? LoL Gainey came in, took a franchise that was a mess and made it respectable and the habs have been competitive almost every year since he came on board.
Gainey made it respectable but not great. We've usually finished with somewhere around 92 points. That's hardly as great as you're making it out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
They had some very high profile misses in the draft and it's cost us. We probably could have snagged Carey Price by picking up a low first rounder and taken Kopitar instead (a big, skill centerman we still badly need). And passing over a big Canadian boy like Getzlaf and getting outbid by Jersey for Parise was inexcusable. We could have had all those guys on cheap entry contracts and loaded up. Not sure what Gainey did to clean anything up. He kept us on the same level with different players, basically. And some players played over their heads and got us some surprising results. Other than the one year Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros, then got fired for it because he had to play fourth liners in the top 6 because we were too soft. There are no excuses. These guys are paid to win and get the job done, and I'm still looking at several of the players on this team and shaking my head at how we're ever going to get a Cup.

PG has already made a dent in that sad history by signing Cole. That signing alone guarantees that we'll improve - if he stays healthy. I'm very happy with our current GM. About time.
I think we've drafted very well actually (for where we've drafted). And Carey Price was a superb pick.
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
29 other teams fail to win the cup every year. It's a combination of hard work, skill and luck. We were short on luck last year, to go along with our lack of scoring(which they're addressing).
Funny how it's usually the top teams that get lucky. I wonder why that is? I guess they just luck their way into the top finishers and fluke their way into a cup...

A wonder why a last place club hasn't managed to win a cup? I guess they need more four leaf clovers...
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
I'm curious if these same people(the negative nancy's), predicted all doom and gloom last season to go along with an eighth place finish. Did they predict we'd lose to Washington two years ago in the playoffs, and then again to Pittsburgh? How many times can they use the same excuse that we just got hot goaltending at the right time.
Are you saying that goaltending isn't the reason we got past the first round against Washington? Really?

Look Cammy was great and others stepped up but no matter how you slice it, it took a Roy-like performance from Halak to get us out of the first round. And we didn't even belong on the postseason that year because we finished with a pathetic 88 points. We were an AWFUL team that year and we were saved by amazing goaltending. Please don't pretend otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
San Jose is the poster child for the "big, skilled, Canadian team", and they've failed to win the cup every year.
Sure, and Ottawa assembled great teams but didn't win. But at least they built legit contenders with a shot at winning... You can't ask your GM for more than that.

As has been stated above there are 29 other teams. Even if you do everything right and assemble a powerhouse you still might not win. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to build the best team possible.
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
I don't care, if someone wants to dislike every thing this team does, and discredit any time they have success, they can. I'm just tired of their arrogance. If anyone disagrees with them, or has any hopes for this team higher than squeaking into 8th place, suddenly they're the idiots.
You've got things backwards here.

Criticize the team and folks go all 'Charlie Sheen' on you and freak out. We ALL want the team to win dude. Some folks just don't see the team progressing the way we hoped it would. I don't think we're a bad team but I don't think we're as good as we could've been and I think we made a lot of mistakes along the way.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
What I get is if all the pessimists are so upset that they need to come on here
Because they're fans and care enough about the team to post here.

In fact, I'd say they're better fans because they don't just show up here when we're winning cups. And they actually (rightly or wrongly) offer up their thoughts on what we could do to improve the club.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
and cry anytime somebody is optimistic about the team why don't you all just go watch Detroit instead? Clearly you only care about winning and nothing else so you may as well go with the closest thing to a modern day dynasty.
What I don't get is why you feel the need to worry about what these folks say... It's a place where people go to express their opinions on the team. The club has been in 8th place seemingly forever, so some people aren't satisfied with that. That doesn't mean that they're negative or 'crying'... it means that they want something better.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I mean really the way some fans bash anything positive about the habs makes you wonder if they're just closet Nordiques fans who love to ***** and put the team down 24/7.
When I read posts like this, it makes me realize that our fans are a lot like Toronto's. Many will defend the club's moves no matter what....
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
News flash, there are 30 teams in the NHL. At any given time plenty of them are in the midst of or at the end of a rebuild. How often do these rebuilds get you a cup? Not often actually, more teams have failed re-builds than successful. You're expectations are just too high in sports league of 30 teams and a salary cap. We're still one of the top 50% teams in the league each year and we're even only a few years removed from a 1st overall season. Take a chill pill or go back to following the Avs if you hate this team so much.
That's right... there are 30 teams.

All the more reason why you have to make the extra effort to be better than everyone else... Relying on luck is not a winning strategy. Yes, you will get lucky and unlucky bounces, happens every year. But that shouldn't stop you from building the best team you can.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Really people make it sound like the "apologists" are the ones who are annoying but the incessant whining of the haters about management coaching or euros is quite frankly about 100x more annoying. Furthermore the haters just hate plain and simple and rarely if ever bring anything to the table of discussion or even have a valid point. It's always euro bash this, coach bash that, Gauthier this Gainey that. But yet they think they could do it better? You must be a real arrogant **** if you actually think you'd be doing any better. There are 30 teams in the league and a salary cap. There are only so many players who want to play for each team. There are only so many quality general managers, coaches and players. Some people around here need a wake up call. Finishing 1st in the East a few years ago and making the playoffs most years is far from a failure.
So because we aren't GMs we can't criticize the moves? We can't see that Gomez was a stupid move?

Seriously?

Do I have to be a GM to know that Rejean Houle was a disaster (regardless of who was pulling the stings)? Of course not. So why can't folks come here and give their opinions on... you know... a message board?
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Were there hiccups along the way? Sure. But we're still in a position that we could go far even now. If you guys are too bias and pessimistic due to various hating to realize that then go follow Detroit because clearly it isn't about being a habs fan to you all, it's only about winning.

I want a cup as much as the next guy but at least I'm realistic enough to realize it's a league with 30 teams and news flash... you guessed it, all of them want to win each year
Sure.

And some of those clubs don't care about the cup. They care only about 8th place and making the playoffs... Some care about the cup but make dumb moves along the way. Some get unlucky etc...

This is the place where folks go to talk about these things. If they feel the club isn't that great, they'll tell you why. Doesn't make them negative and in fact, they've been much more accurate on how we've finished than guys like you have.

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08-18-2011, 03:25 PM
  #44
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Like I said, if you want to ***** about everything this team does, go ahead. Don't go around calling anyone who shows the least bit of optimism in this team an idiot though(don't dwell on this part, I'm not singling you out). Just because you're pessimistic doesn't mean your predictions are any more realistic.

We pretty much dominated Boston all season(but the beatdown!!!), and were battling for the division the entire season until down the stretch. You've already seen this argument but injuries, etc... I'd hardly call Montreal a mediocre team last season.

Quote:
Sure, and Ottawa assembled great teams but didn't win. But at least they built legit contenders with a shot at winning... You can't ask your GM for more than that.

As has been stated above there are 29 other teams. Even if you do everything right and assemble a powerhouse you still might not win. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to build the best team possible.
I've already pointed this out, luck is involved. Injuries on your team, your opponents team, playing against "softer" opponents. So would you consider San Jose's existence a success so far? I mean aside from some regular season success, what have they exactly accomplished?

You and the others apparently don't care about Montreals playoff success recently, and you discredit their first place finish in 08, so what counts aside from Stanley Cups?

Who says they aren't trying to build the best team possible? This isn't a video game, it takes two GMs to make a deal, and people need to want to come here.

I don't blindly agree with everything management does, I want a Stanley Cup too. If we were like the Leafs since the lockout I'd be pissed, but at least we've iced a competitive team. I have no problem with criticism, but it gets grating seeing the same people blindly hate everything this team does, and then claim they know what's best because they're not "blind to managements flaws".

Montreal signs someone, or makes a trade and your first thought is to point out the flaws, fine. Don't pretend you're smarter just because your glass is half empty.

Quote:
This is the place where folks go to talk about these things. If they feel the club isn't that great, they'll tell you why. Doesn't make them negative and in fact, they've been much more accurate on how we've finished than guys like you have.
Case in point. I'm not even sure what "guys like you" entails.


Last edited by Protest the Hero: 08-18-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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08-18-2011, 04:31 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
Montreal signs someone, or makes a trade and your first thought is to point out the flaws, fine. Don't pretend you're smarter just because your glass is half full.
You probably mean half empty?

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08-18-2011, 04:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
You probably mean half empty?
Ha, indeed. I had the sentence worded differently before, forgot to change that.

Anyways, to be less direct, I have no problem with discussion. However most of the discussion involves someone coming along and stating their opinions as facts.

"I like this move!"
"That's stupid, this move sucks, this GM sucks, you're stupid if you think this team is going anywhere!"

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08-18-2011, 04:57 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
Ha, indeed. I had the sentence worded differently before, forgot to change that.

Anyways, to be less direct, I have no problem with discussion. However most of the discussion involves someone coming along and stating their opinions as facts.

"I like this move!"
"That's stupid, this move sucks, this GM sucks, you're stupid if you think this team is going anywhere!"
"I hate this move because of xyz"
"That's stupid. This move is great. If you knew any better you'd be working in the NHL. Anyone who thinks they know more than management is an arrogant tool"

That last sentence was pretty much verbatim from post #42 in this thread, a post where someone clearly takes this message board a bit too personally.

Not to mention the whole "not working in the NHL" argument has been easily picked apart and destroyed. It took just one sentence earlier in this very thread I believe with the mention of how many people knew the Gomez trade would be a flop from the get-go.

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08-18-2011, 05:03 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
"I hate this move because of xyz"
"That's stupid. This move is great. If you knew any better you'd be working in the NHL. Anyone who thinks they know more than management is an arrogant tool"
That falls under the same umbrella, practically every discussion ends up the same way. It just seems to me the "optimists" are more willing to actually discuss why they like the move than the "pessimists".

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08-18-2011, 07:25 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
This is the place where folks go to talk about these things. If they feel the club isn't that great, they'll tell you why. Doesn't make them negative and in fact, they've been much more accurate on how we've finished than guys like you have.



Yeah, most of the negative horde here predicted we'd fight for a playoff spot last season. Guess what? They were wrong.

We fought for the division, without our MVP to boot. That should tell you how accurate they were...



Also, I want to talk about that "yeah right" you responded to my quote about Mathman.

As per usual, you don't even offer ANY arguments to disprove this.

Mathman's shot % stats are facts. Deal with it. It is revealing that you don't recognize the difference between facts, and an "agenda".

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08-18-2011, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post



Yeah, most of the negative horde here predicted we'd fight for a playoff spot last season. Guess what? They were wrong.

We fought for the division, without our MVP to boot. That should tell you how accurate they were...



Also, I want to talk about that "yeah right" you responded to my quote about Mathman.

As per usual, you don't even offer ANY arguments to disprove this.

Mathman's shot % stats are facts. Deal with it. It is revealing that you don't recognize the difference between facts, and an "agenda".
Points out of the division lead: 8
Points ahead of 9th place: 5

So we were actually closer to being out of the playoffs than we were to being division champs. That's a fact. Deal with it.

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