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Old
08-18-2011, 06:00 PM
  #26
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Potential 30 goal forwards that are UFA next season that I would kick the tires on"

Semin: Beck and Josi
Parise: 1st, Wilson, Josi
Penner: 2nd
Hemsky: 1st
Boyes: 4th (only bc buffalo is up against the cap. we'd do them a favor)
Kostitsyn: 2nd or a 3rd and Roussel

Guys with this season and next under contract (thus paying more):
Crosby: 2 firsts, Wilson, Josi, and Suter
Iginla: 1st plus whatever young dman they want
Perry: 1st, Wilson, and josi
Getzlaf: see Perry
Hartnell: 3rd plus Engren or 2nd teir d prospect
Horton: 2nd plus Josi or Engren or Lindback
JStaal: 1st plus wilson and 2nd tier d prospect
All of these trade values are extremely questionable to say the least.

Of the above, the best bet would arguably be Boyes. Buffalo isn't hard up the cap like you assume above, though - there's guys on their blueline (most notably Shaone Morrissonn) that they're perfectly happy to bury in the minors to handle that cap overage.

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Old
08-18-2011, 09:16 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
All of these trade values are extremely questionable to say the least.

Of the above, the best bet would arguably be Boyes. Buffalo isn't hard up the cap like you assume above, though - there's guys on their blueline (most notably Shaone Morrissonn) that they're perfectly happy to bury in the minors to handle that cap overage.
I didn't say they were not far fetched.

and you have to take into account other players on the team. buffalo for example will have to pay myers next year, while having vanek, miller, leino, and ehrhoff with big contracts.

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Old
08-18-2011, 10:18 PM
  #28
Viqsi
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I didn't say they were not far fetched.

and you have to take into account other players on the team. buffalo for example will have to pay myers next year, while having vanek, miller, leino, and ehrhoff with big contracts.
Hon? The contracts of many current Sabres with cap hits in the $2m-$4m range that are unlikely to stick around - folks like Kotalik, Hecht, Gaustad, Morrissonn, and Boyes - all expire next year. So that doesn't apply either. They have at least $14.5m in cap space with which to resign the two Tylers and Kaleta and add a bunch of bottom-6 guys.

Research is useful.

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Old
08-18-2011, 10:32 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Research is useful.
Aye, that it is. Wish more people realized that, especially with a lot of trade offers thrown around both here and on the other sections of the board.

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Old
08-18-2011, 11:44 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Hon? The contracts of many current Sabres with cap hits in the $2m-$4m range that are unlikely to stick around - folks like Kotalik, Hecht, Gaustad, Morrissonn, and Boyes - all expire next year. So that doesn't apply either. They have at least $14.5m in cap space with which to resign the two Tylers and Kaleta and add a bunch of bottom-6 guys.

Research is useful.
of that 14, figure 11 goes to the tylers and kaleta and they have 3 million to replace entire third line, and that will cover three rookies on it and crap on the 4th line. they will have nine guys pulling over 4 million a year next year. they will have to make somehting work.

using forsight and common sense are useful attributes as well

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Old
08-19-2011, 10:42 AM
  #31
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post


of that 14, figure 11 goes to the tylers and kaleta and they have 3 million to replace entire third line, and that will cover three rookies on it and crap on the 4th line. they will have nine guys pulling over 4 million a year next year. they will have to make somehting work.

using forsight and common sense are useful attributes as well
While I applaud your application of foresight, it suffers from a fatal flaw - this discussion was about getting Brad Boyes for a fourth-round pick because of possible cap relief for the Sabres accounting for the rest of his value.

As his contract expires by the time the events you have foreseen come into play, he therefore remains a Fair Market Value trade.

(Also, I expect Kassian will be playing by then, which covers at least one slot. But that's going further down the irrelevant tangent. )

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:27 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
While I applaud your application of foresight, it suffers from a fatal flaw - this discussion was about getting Brad Boyes for a fourth-round pick because of possible cap relief for the Sabres accounting for the rest of his value.

As his contract expires by the time the events you have foreseen come into play, he therefore remains a Fair Market Value trade.

(Also, I expect Kassian will be playing by then, which covers at least one slot. But that's going further down the irrelevant tangent. )
I guess it depends on which side of the fence you sit on as a sabre fan. Do you get something for Boyes now, one that is a tangible asset and afford yourself the luxury of having the extra room this year or lose him for nothing because you have to pay the kids next year? By moving him this year, you have 4 million dollars of insurance in case someone goes down and need to spend at the deadline.

Still, I would offer a 4th for him.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:42 AM
  #33
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Some things from Capsland that you may find interesting re: Semin:

1) He hates being in the spotlight. Sometimes I wonder if this could have anything to do with his inconsistency.

2) His value tradewise is about as low as it can get right now. However, his value as a player has only risen if anything. That makes him a player that a smart GM would not be looking to trade, when even if he's not in the team's future plans, his cap hit comes off the books at the end of the season.

3) The Caps without Semin have no secondary scoring. A forward capable of creating offense on the second line would have to come back (or, as I would like, a defenseman to replace Green so he can be Shanahaned). More likely than not it would need to be a winger, so it would largely be a lateral move for both teams.

4) Semin does not like long contracts. This could either hamper or benefit the Predators, depending on where you see him long-term.

Just some thoughts that may or may not add to the discussion. I'll also add that I think Brenden Morrow might be someone worth pursuing. He's definitely on my list for the Caps and I think he would fit in quite well on the Predators.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:43 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I guess it depends on which side of the fence you sit on as a sabre fan. Do you get something for Boyes now, one that is a tangible asset and afford yourself the luxury of having the extra room this year or lose him for nothing because you have to pay the kids next year? By moving him this year, you have 4 million dollars of insurance in case someone goes down and need to spend at the deadline.

Still, I would offer a 4th for him.
I'm not entirely convinced they're planning on keeping him past this year to begin with. That said, for the time being he's still a valuable asset, and offering only a 4th would get you either laughed at or sneered at, depending on the guy's mood. You really aren't "doing them a favor" one way or the other.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:45 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
I'll also add that I think Brenden Morrow might be someone worth pursuing. He's definitely on my list for the Caps and I think he would fit in quite well on the Predators.
He'd be very nice, but I can't imagine Dallas being willing to part with Morrow under any circumstances, especially now that Richards has left.

If you want to target underrated captains, I'd suggest Dustin Brown.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:46 AM
  #36
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If you are reading section 303's line projections I really like them.

Kostitsyn-Fisher-Hornqvist
Erat-Legwand-Geoffrion
Bergfors-O'Reilly-Wilson

Spaling-Smithson-Halischuk-Tootoo-Stortini


If anything, if the above come to fruition the big thing is health. SK had a broken foot and maybe could have reached 30 goals. Hornqvist can be a 30 goal scorer too. Fisher would be interesting if he can build chemistry and slough off the losing stink of the Senators.

Erat and Legwand are a natural paring. Geoffrion replaced Ward in that role. Might work well.

The '3rd line' is a bunch of question marks. Wilson needs to live up to his 1st rd. pick potential. Bergfors needs to put it all together. And O'Reilly just needs to feed them both.

4th line will be ok as always. Spaling and Smithson done. It's going to be an interesting fight with Tootoo and Halischuk. Stortini will enjoy the Wade Belak memorial chair in the player's box.

it will be injuries that will determine things.

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Old
08-19-2011, 12:46 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
He'd be very nice, but I can't imagine Dallas being willing to part with Morrow under any circumstances, especially now that Richards has left.

If you want to target underrated captains, I'd suggest Dustin Brown.
Re: Morrow, I doubt it too, but I can see Morrow being available if the Stars are out of it at the deadline as a more plausible scenario than Dustin Brown being available. He could also probably be had for a smaller return than it would take to get Brown. That said, if Brown were available, I would push old ladies with strollers into the street in my haste to roll out the welcome wagon for him.

I did ask about Morrow on the Dallas board as a possible deadline deal, and they didn't discount the possibility. They did, however, indicate that they would not be pleased to see him go (no surprise there).

Another guy who's been reported to be available is Rene Bourque (iirc he was rumored to be on the table in a deal to Washington at the draft, but Washington ended up with Brouwer instead). Anyway, I don't mean to come in and bust up the thread like I know your team at all, just throwing names out. Not enough action going on to keep my wild speculation to just the Caps. 32 days 5 hours 13 minutes until the start of the preseason (for WSH)... sigh.

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Old
08-19-2011, 02:03 PM
  #38
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ChibiPooky - Fairfax!!! That's where I live. Long time Pred fan though. Caps are okay.

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Old
08-19-2011, 02:22 PM
  #39
ChibiPooky
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ChibiPooky - Fairfax!!! That's where I live. Long time Pred fan though. Caps are okay.
I actually have only been a Caps fan for about 3 or 4 years. I ended up going to games with my friend who had season tickets... his friend that he usually went with was moving... I took advantage of the situation to get to buy into season tickets and sit next to a good friend, as I wanted to see NHL hockey. I was still a Red Wings fan at the time. Of course, the Caps were playing very exciting hockey then, and the fact that I was spending thousands of dollars a year to see them helped justify becoming a fan. They are certainly frustrating at times but just being in Verizon Center is worth the price imho. Great atmosphere there.

I definitely have a good healthy respect for the Predators. Any team that wins through sheer determination as frequently as they do deserves it. I have a guy on my Kettler hockey team who is a big Predators fan as well. Loves him some Hornqvist, he does. Even wears 27 although I think he may have started wearing 27 before Hornqvist came into the league.

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Old
08-19-2011, 02:25 PM
  #40
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The big question mark in Dallas is ownership. Once that is completely settled, Morrow stays. If the front office is still in flux, he's in play.

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