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Jarred Tinordi makes first cut (15 players) at US camp

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08-18-2011, 08:32 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
Hitting do not = mean

O'Byrne had as many hits with the Habs (look at the stats) as with the Avs. Did he look mean with the Habs? Not at all.

Lapierre hits a lot but is not mean at all.

O'byrne is not mean by nature. You can tell by his play.
O'byrne is as mean as the most physical NHL d-men, it's not the 90's where guys like Stevens can try and take guys heads off and not get suspended, plus the game is a lot tighter than the 80's so if you run around and take chances the puck ends up in your net and you end up on the bench. OB is a pritotypical modern day bruising stay at home d-man.

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08-18-2011, 08:51 AM
  #77
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After looking at the list of D that made the cut, I'd assume that Tinordi's chances are high of making the team since Jones will have just turned 17 for the tourney, and Murphy just got seriously hurt. I'd say that as long as he doesn't regress in his development from now till the next camp, he should be a lock.
I doubt he regresses this upcoming season, he took his off-ice training very seriously and he seems to have finally adapted his mean streak game and defensive coverage to the faster OHL pace. Next season should be about learning how to play a more effective offensive game ( long passes, getting shots to the net) and taking the mean streak to a whole new level.

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08-18-2011, 09:08 AM
  #78
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Let's calm down about Tinordi's fighting abilities. He's usually facing guys much smaller than him. Just look at the great Andrew Conboy and how he absolutely dominated the USHL by pounding his opponents day in day out....but then meets some men and get his ass kick, is mishandled or even look pretty average even in his wins. While Tinordi seems to have more "fundamentals" in his fighting abilities (much better balance, protects himself better), you just need to be more careful in assessing how a guy fights until he does it in higher levels.

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08-18-2011, 09:57 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Let's calm down about Tinordi's fighting abilities. He's usually facing guys much smaller than him. Just look at the great Andrew Conboy and how he absolutely dominated the USHL by pounding his opponents day in day out....but then meets some men and get his ass kick, is mishandled or even look pretty average even in his wins. While Tinordi seems to have more "fundamentals" in his fighting abilities (much better balance, protects himself better), you just need to be more careful in assessing how a guy fights until he does it in higher levels.
True enough but I'll take the bloodline any day of the week. I don't see Albert Conboy (example name for the dad ) beating peoples heads in and then see Andrew doing the same fighting just like his dad did

Obviously it doesn't mean a whole lot but I have faith in this kid I think he's been underrated by fans across the league. Big D like this guy take time to develop. I'm sure he's honestly par for the course and people are blowing his question marks out of proportion.

By the way I wasn't really assessing him through the fights just enjoying the fights in general

Plus it's one thing to be 5'7" and win fights against kids in junior etc just because you have strength when other kids haven't filled out yet.

It's an entirely other thing to be 6'7" 200+ and beat those same kids. The 5'7" has no chance against men in the NHL. The 6'7" guy will already be at an above level playing field just due to size. Will he beat the Chara's in the NHL? Doubtful. But even O'Byrne could likely push some average size fighters around if he wanted to.


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08-18-2011, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Let's calm down about Tinordi's fighting abilities. He's usually facing guys much smaller than him. Just look at the great Andrew Conboy and how he absolutely dominated the USHL by pounding his opponents day in day out....but then meets some men and get his ass kick, is mishandled or even look pretty average even in his wins. While Tinordi seems to have more "fundamentals" in his fighting abilities (much better balance, protects himself better), you just need to be more careful in assessing how a guy fights until he does it in higher levels.
Sure there is some projection in regards to Tinnordis future as fighter, but assuming he adds some strength, the kid likely could end up a legit heavyweight. He has the bloodlines as mentions, and where that is most important is in terms of his toughness and chin. He also has crazy long arms, and his technique and balance are solid. He's still developing in this regard, but he should be a guy able to fight the Rupps, Orrs, and Thorntons of the world, while also being a solid defensive defenseman...

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08-18-2011, 11:44 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Let's calm down about Tinordi's fighting abilities. He's usually facing guys much smaller than him. Just look at the great Andrew Conboy and how he absolutely dominated the USHL by pounding his opponents day in day out....but then meets some men and get his ass kick, is mishandled or even look pretty average even in his wins. While Tinordi seems to have more "fundamentals" in his fighting abilities (much better balance, protects himself better), you just need to be more careful in assessing how a guy fights until he does it in higher levels.
Not only that but people fail to actually look at how he did in his fights. They just look at his size and just take some uninformed posts about Tinordi being a good fighter and run with it.

Fact is he lost more often than he won and most of the time was fighting players half his size. The only positive thing I took from watching tape on all his fights is that he isn't scared to take a punch and he doesn't have a glass jaw but we'll see how long that holds up when he isn't taking on a 190 pound 19 year old.

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08-18-2011, 12:44 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
Not only that but people fail to actually look at how he did in his fights. They just look at his size and just take some uninformed posts about Tinordi being a good fighter and run with it.

Fact is he lost more often than he won and most of the time was fighting players half his size. The only positive thing I took from watching tape on all his fights is that he isn't scared to take a punch and he doesn't have a glass jaw but we'll see how long that holds up when he isn't taking on a 190 pound 19 year old.
Not sure where you get that he lost more than he won, the fights I saw half of them he won clearly and the other half were pretty even. If he lost any of them it was by a slight margin or it was one of those fights where neither guy got a lot of shots in.

In terms of taking on 190lbs 19 year olds, well he was a 200-205 lbs 18 year old, in 3-4 years where he is filled out, those guys won't be 25-35lbs heavier/stronger, but he will due to his huge frame. Being 6'7" makes him more of a project than a 6' 185lbs guy at the same age because taht player has less filling out and doesn't need to grow into a huge frame.

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08-18-2011, 03:34 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
O'byrne is as mean as the most physical NHL d-men, it's not the 90's where guys like Stevens can try and take guys heads off and not get suspended, plus the game is a lot tighter than the 80's so if you run around and take chances the puck ends up in your net and you end up on the bench. OB is a pritotypical modern day bruising stay at home d-man.
No he is not, not even close. Habs would have kept him if he was that mean.

Rarely fights, does not hit that often and he does not croscheck people all the time. Far from being a mean SOB.

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08-18-2011, 03:42 PM
  #84
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No he is not, not even close. Habs would have kept him if he was that mean.

Rarely fights, does not hit that often and he does not croscheck people all the time. Far from being a mean SOB.
Guys like Greene and Schenn were at the top of the NHL hits leaders for d-men, they average only 0.3 hits per game more than O'Byrne(2.68 versus about 3.00) and those guys have 2 fights each last year. Chara averaged 1.89 and was not even 1st on his own team for d-men. OB had only one fight last year but 6 the year before.

I'm not saying he is THE meanest SOB in the NHL but hefits the mold of the big bruising stay at home d-man...people love to knock him on here and I think they don't live in the real world.

The biggest reason he was traded is that JM always leans on the veterans over the youngt players, I think Gainey made a big mistake by signing Spacek, not just because it looks like a bad contract right now and he was not comfortable on the RH side, because it let JM play all veterans and barely play O'byrne. This year by not signing any real established vets he forces JM to give Weber and Yemelin a true shot.

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08-18-2011, 04:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not sure where you get that he lost more than he won, the fights I saw half of them he won clearly and the other half were pretty even. If he lost any of them it was by a slight margin or it was one of those fights where neither guy got a lot of shots in.

In terms of taking on 190lbs 19 year olds, well he was a 200-205 lbs 18 year old, in 3-4 years where he is filled out, those guys won't be 25-35lbs heavier/stronger, but he will due to his huge frame. Being 6'7" makes him more of a project than a 6' 185lbs guy at the same age because taht player has less filling out and doesn't need to grow into a huge frame.
I've seen all of them thanks to the Knights games I've watched and this great little site: http://www.dropyourgloves.com/fights...=9&Season=2011 .

The fight reviews are pretty much as accurate as it gets.

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08-18-2011, 04:27 PM
  #86
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Wasn't this the first year Tinordi could actually fight? I don't know how the usndp league exactly works where he came from, but I'm guessing this was his first year he was actually fighting this much. People need to let him gain some more upper body strength and learn the nuances of fighting before really making a statement whether hes going to be a good fighter or not. It would be nice if he could handle himself but its not crucial at all.

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08-18-2011, 04:29 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I've seen all of them thanks to the Knights games I've watched and this great little site: http://www.dropyourgloves.com/fights...=9&Season=2011 .

The fight reviews are pretty much as accurate as it gets.
My point remains...once he reaches 235-240lbs he will have a lot more power behind his punches then his reach and leverage will make a big difference.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 08-18-2011 at 05:27 PM.
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08-18-2011, 04:35 PM
  #88
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Wasn't this the first year Tinordi could actually fight? I don't know how the usndp league exactly works where he came from, but I'm guessing this was his first year he was actually fighting this much. People need to let him gain some more upper body strength and learn the nuances of fighting before really making a statement whether hes going to be a good fighter or not. It would be nice if he could handle himself but its not crucial at all.
The USNDTP played in the USHL, so you can fight, Tinordi had 2 fights in the USHL. Players under 18 though must wear a full cage.

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08-18-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Guys like Greene and Schenn were at the top of the NHL hits leaders for d-men, they average only 0.3 hits per game more than O'Byrne(2.68 versus about 3.00) and those guys have 2 fights each last year. Chara averaged 1.89 and was not even 1st on his own team for d-men. OB had only one fight last year but 6 the year before.

I'm not saying he is THE meanest SOB in the NHL but hefits the mold of the big bruising stay at home d-man...people love to knock him on here and I think they don't live in the real world.

The biggest reason he was traded is that JM always leans on the veterans over the youngt players, I think Gainey made a big mistake by signing Spacek, not just because it looks like a bad contract right now and he was not comfortable on the RH side, because it let JM play all veterans and barely play O'byrne. This year by not signing any real established vets he forces JM to give Weber and Yemelin a true shot.
Number of hits doesn't equal to being mean, look at Pronger one of the meanest, toughest guy in the league and he doesn't have alot of hits. Plus O'byrne was kind of soft when it was the time of clearing the front of the net (a very important thing) and if you hit alot, but it's all small hits you're not in the most physical guys. Just compare Komisarek and O'byrne when they were both here.


Last edited by Forsead: 08-18-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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08-18-2011, 04:38 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
My point remains...once he reaches 235-240lbs he will have a lot more power behind his punches then his reach and leverage will make a big diggerence.

That can be true but what i want from him really is the power to move guys away from the net, play a simple game and throw some rock solid checks. You know....the kind where you can see it coming and you know someone is getting a first class ticket to the moon.

Reach is good and like you said if he gains the weight he can be the type of dmen skillful forward hate to play against. He will have epic poke checking skills if his skating keeps up with the weight.

here is a case where reach did not help:



No matter i like the pick and i think Tinordi will be solid hab player.

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08-18-2011, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
My point remains...once he reaches 235-240lbs he will have a lot more power behind his punches then his reach and leverage will make a big diggerence.
How does your point remain when a) your notion of Tinordi winning most his fights was shot down and b) you don't know for a fact that Tinordi will ever play at 240, much less how that weight will translate into fighting ability (see Mike Komisarek).

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08-18-2011, 05:16 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
Number of hits doesn't equal to being mean, look at Pronger one of the meanest, toughest guy in the league and he doesn't have alot of hits. Plus O'byrne was kind oft soft when it was the time of clearing the front of the net (a very important thing) and if you hit alot, but it's all small hits you're not in the most physical guys. Just compare Komisarek and O'byrne when they were both here.
Thanks! You just avoided me a post to explain these basic facts.

When someone thinks OB is a mean D, they obviously been watching the Habs for too long (soft D) and not other teams around the league to be able to recognize what mean actually is.

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08-18-2011, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
Number of hits doesn't equal to being mean, look at Pronger one of the meanest, toughest guy in the league and he doesn't have alot of hits. Plus O'byrne was kind of soft when it was the time of clearing the front of the net (a very important thing) and if you hit alot, but it's all small hits you're not in the most physical guys. Just compare Komisarek and O'byrne when they were both here.
Pronger plays a mean game because of his stickwork, I don't think I would associate him in any way with being tough. I can't recall the last time he fought. He uses reach, smarts and a mean straek to be effective, but he isn't a guy that will constantly punish guys. Not like say Komisarek in his big year(07-08) where he was intimidating with hisw hits. You say they are not big hits, when was the last time you saw Pronger paste anybody?

I think you vastly underrate O'byrne and his impact, I don't think he was ever used to maximum capacities here because JM didn't have confidence in him and he knew it. You have to trust your players and instill that in them, JM always had OB looking over his shoulder for the next benching/healthy scratch.

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How does your point remain when a) your notion of Tinordi winning most his fights was shot down and b) you don't know for a fact that Tinordi will ever play at 240, much less how that weight will translate into fighting ability (see Mike Komisarek).
He did win most of his fights, I looked at all the videos and 5-6 were draws and he won the others. The only one you can say he truly lost was the Carroll one where he got tangled up into an awkward position and took 4-5 shots at the end. He is 18 and still learning, I don't expect him to KO everybody he fights.

Komisarek played college hockey where you can't fight. Tinordi plays in the OHL and already has 10-12 fights under his belt.

In terms of his weight, if you have seen him in a t-shirt you'd know he has the frame to be a very big man(235-250lbs) in 3-5 years.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 08-18-2011 at 05:46 PM. Reason: merged
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08-18-2011, 05:45 PM
  #94
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Pronger plays a mean game because of his stickwork, I don't think I would associate him in any way with being tough. I can't recall the last time he fought. He uses reach, smarts and a mean straek to be effective, but he isn't a guy that will constantly punish guys. Not like say Komisarek in his big year(07-08) where he was intimidating with hisw hits. You say they are not big hits, when was the last time you saw Pronger paste anybody?

I think you vastly underrate O'byrne and his impact, I don't think he was ever used to maximum capacities here because JM didn't have confidence in him and he knew it. You have to trust your players and instill that in them, JM always had OB looking over his shoulder for the next benching/healthy scratch.
Not a JM thing, stop with JM (he has his flaws, but not on this one IMO), O'byrne was playing the same way under Carbo. You just showed that being mean doesn't equal to hit with Pronger, he is nasty and not just with the stick, but with the elbow, gloves in faces, pushing alot of guys especially in front of the net(IMO that's what a guy need to do to be mean, not just hitting). I'm pretty sure Pronger is much more intimidating than Komisarek or O'byrne. If you want nasty, mean hitting though, just compare Komisarek and O'byrne when they were on the same team at the same time, it wasn't the same thing at all. There is different way of being intimidating and mean, O'byrne has none.

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08-18-2011, 07:06 PM
  #95
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No he is not, not even close. Habs would have kept him if he was that mean.

Rarely fights, does not hit that often and he does not croscheck people all the time. Far from being a mean SOB.


I'd say that's pretty mean. Kaleta is no pushover

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08-18-2011, 07:57 PM
  #96
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That can be true but what i want from him really is the power to move guys away from the net, play a simple game and throw some rock solid checks. You know....the kind where you can see it coming and you know someone is getting a first class ticket to the moon.

Reach is good and like you said if he gains the weight he can be the type of dmen skillful forward hate to play against. He will have epic poke checking skills if his skating keeps up with the weight.

here is a case where reach did not help:



No matter i like the pick and i think Tinordi will be solid hab player.
Oh brother.....
That's the kind of post that shows you why no fighter ever had for multiple seasons.

Now matter what size you are, you will lose a fight! Colton Orr got knocked out 3 times last season alone, does that make him a bad fighter? I hope fans here or at the bell center wont be dumb enough to start booing Tinordi everytime he loses a fight.

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08-18-2011, 08:09 PM
  #97
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Oh brother.....
Now matter what size you are, you will lose a fight! Colton Orr got knocked out 3 times last season alone, does that make him a bad fighter? I hope fans here or at the bell center wont be dumb enough to start booing Tinordi everytime he loses a fight.
All Tinordi has to do is knockout/beat up Lucic or Chara and he will be a legend in Montreal.

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08-18-2011, 09:02 PM
  #98
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Not a JM thing, stop with JM (he has his flaws, but not on this one IMO), O'byrne was playing the same way under Carbo. You just showed that being mean doesn't equal to hit with Pronger, he is nasty and not just with the stick, but with the elbow, gloves in faces, pushing alot of guys especially in front of the net(IMO that's what a guy need to do to be mean, not just hitting). I'm pretty sure Pronger is much more intimidating than Komisarek or O'byrne. If you want nasty, mean hitting though, just compare Komisarek and O'byrne when they were on the same team at the same time, it wasn't the same thing at all. There is different way of being intimidating and mean, O'byrne has none.
OB wasn't as intimidating in Montreal because he was playing scared. When you know your next mistake puts you on the bench or in the press box you're not going to run around and run guys over or be too agressive and take a penality and have the same result.

Pronger has never been in the same stratosphere as the season Komisarek had in 07-08, he wasn't the same the following year and really fell apart when he blew up his shoulder. Pronger's physical/intimidation thing is massively overrated because of a few suspensions on cheap shots 5 or 6 years ago. The last few years he can barely stay in the lineup let alone scare anybody.

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08-18-2011, 09:14 PM
  #99
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All Tinordi has to do is knockout/beat up Lucic or Chara and he will be a legend in Montreal.
No pressure or anything

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08-18-2011, 09:16 PM
  #100
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He did win most of his fights, I looked at all the videos and 5-6 were draws and he won the others. The only one you can say he truly lost was the Carroll one where he got tangled up into an awkward position and took 4-5 shots at the end. He is 18 and still learning, I don't expect him to KO everybody he fights.
Well that would simply be your opinion at this point, because a weighted perspective from other sources clearly shows otherwise.

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Pronger has never been in the same stratosphere as the season Komisarek had in 07-08, he wasn't the same the following year and really fell apart when he blew up his shoulder. Pronger's physical/intimidation thing is massively overrated because of a few suspensions on cheap shots 5 or 6 years ago. The last few years he can barely stay in the lineup let alone scare anybody.
What exactly do you mean by your first sentence?

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