HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Stanley Cups: Most or Most Recent?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-19-2011, 08:25 AM
  #26
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilan30 View Post
Would you rather be the guy that got laid lots in high school but now spends nights alone or the guy who couldn't get any back then but is gettin some now?
So getting in the playoffs is getting a date, 2nd round is first base, conference finals is second base, finals are third base?

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 09:17 AM
  #27
habfaninvictoria
Registered User
 
habfaninvictoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 1,665
vCash: 500
Your first mistake was arguing with a Bruins fan.

The Bruins will be insufferable for a while. We're talking about a fan base and and organization who claimed to be the best for years based solely on the fact that they had moral victories. They'd lose the game but goon it up and "win" a fight or two and claim victory.

Now they've actually won the cup they have some bragging rights. Unfortunately we'll never really know how tainted the victory was, they received MAJOR support from the league.

It has to be all-time, not recent.

Would you rather be a fan of a team that has a history of choking in the playoffs, particularly against their main rivals... or the fan of a team that has a proud tradition of winning, one that doesn't hang rafters from the ceiling just for winning their division or having the most point in the league. One that doesn't have any jerseys hanging from the rafters from anyone who didn't win the cup. One that you don't have to look up who our teams all-time best players are. Most casual hockey fans (of any team) know the names Richard, Beliveau, Dryden, Vezina, Plante, Robinson, Gainey, Geoffrion, Harvey, Roy, Lafleur.... After Orr, Esposito, Bourque and maybe Neely you have to google their history.

The Bruins celebrate trips to the finals.... we celebrate cups.

habfaninvictoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 10:28 AM
  #28
bostone737
Registered User
 
bostone737's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
Your first mistake was arguing with a Bruins fan.

The Bruins will be insufferable for a while. We're talking about a fan base and and organization who claimed to be the best for years based solely on the fact that they had moral victories. They'd lose the game but goon it up and "win" a fight or two and claim victory.

Now they've actually won the cup they have some bragging rights. Unfortunately we'll never really know how tainted the victory was, they received MAJOR support from the league.

It has to be all-time, not recent.

Would you rather be a fan of a team that has a history of choking in the playoffs, particularly against their main rivals... or the fan of a team that has a proud tradition of winning, one that doesn't hang rafters from the ceiling just for winning their division or having the most point in the league. One that doesn't have any jerseys hanging from the rafters from anyone who didn't win the cup. One that you don't have to look up who our teams all-time best players are. Most casual hockey fans (of any team) know the names Richard, Beliveau, Dryden, Vezina, Plante, Robinson, Gainey, Geoffrion, Harvey, Roy, Lafleur.... After Orr, Esposito, Bourque and maybe Neely you have to google their history.

The Bruins celebrate trips to the finals.... we celebrate cups.
I wasn't going to reply here but there is sooooo much irony in your post. Picture how insufferable bruins fans will be this year. Thatís what Bruins fans have been dealing with from Montreal fans since forever. Culminate cups before fair and structured drafting and salary caps is overrated.

bostone737 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 10:40 AM
  #29
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostone737 View Post
I wasn't going to reply here but there is sooooo much irony in your post. Picture how insufferable bruins fans will be this year. Thatís what Bruins fans have been dealing with from Montreal fans since forever. Culminate cups before fair and structured drafting and salary caps is overrated.
The sad part is, at a certain level, the bfan is right.

But let's not dwell too much on it. We wouldn't want to set a precedent, wouldn't we?

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 11:48 AM
  #30
habfaninvictoria
Registered User
 
habfaninvictoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 1,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostone737 View Post
I wasn't going to reply here but there is sooooo much irony in your post. Picture how insufferable bruins fans will be this year. Thatís what Bruins fans have been dealing with from Montreal fans since forever. Culminate cups before fair and structured drafting and salary caps is overrated.
Whatever you need to do to feel better about yourself.

Fair and structured drafting, yes we benefitted from regional drafting but you seem to think Mtl had this unique advantage. All teams had regional protection, each NHL franchise had exclusive rights to players within its 50-mile territorial limits. Obviously Toronto and Montreal would benefit more than the american teams. The habs farm system was ridiculous back then because they would sign virtually every quebec players worth anything to a minor league contract, but there was in fact nothing keeping other teams from signing a player from Chicoutimi. Probably the most famous example of this was Bobby Orr. The leafs blew it with Orr, who signed with the Bruins at 14 and played for Oshawa who were the junior team affiliated with Boston. Does anyone doubt the leafs would have invoked there regional rights with Orr if possible. Yes we had an advantage, but more because of good scouting and business practice than the regional drafting fallacy. Rejean Houle is, I believe the only player of note that came from this, and given what he did to the habs in the 90's I kind of wish we didn't gain that advantage.

Salary caps would have virtually meaningless until the 90's. The Habs didn't spend demonstrably more than other teams, they did however have a unique ambassador program that kept players on the payroll well after there playing days were done.

Boston has every right to be proud and celebrate their cup victory, just as we have every right to be proud of our 24 cups, many of which came at Boston's expense. Hopefully we won't wait much longer for # 25. In 100 years nobody will really care about who won the cup in 2011, they will still be adding up the # of cups won as the barometer for a teams success.... we'll still have more than any other team.

habfaninvictoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 11:57 AM
  #31
jacklours
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Magog
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,222
vCash: 500
I'd rather be the most recent.

That way if my team is always the most recent I will end up with the most cup overall pretty soon.

jacklours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 12:07 PM
  #32
Montreal Typical
Registered User
 
Montreal Typical's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Most recent. How does a Cup win in 1971 give me bragging rights?
How does any cup victory give you bragging rights?

Montreal Typical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 07:56 PM
  #33
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,755
vCash: 500
Most recent, obviously. Can't be satisfied just by living in the past. How's that relevant anyway when the league has changed, when most teams weren't around and all.

Fine. Having more cups can make you feel like we are the team with the richest history....but that's all there is. As a matter of fact, us not being able to turn it around since 17 years is not doing a favor to that history of ours.

The only fact here is that the kid who will be drafted in this upcoming June, was NOT born when we won our last cup. And slowly but surely, the same upcoming kids will NOT have fathers that will be able to make them understand, 'cause they had lived it personnally, how that Habs were such a great historic team.

Nobody can ever question or remove what our great team has done in the past. But it's time this great team of ours takes care of the present.

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 08:34 PM
  #34
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,529
vCash: 500
Having won many cups is a pride thing. You will always remember these days fondly. It enriches your franchise with legacy and gives it a certain mystique.... just like the yankees.

Which is better? That depends on what you want. For me, winning one cup is a legacy building block whether its in 1945 or 2010...montreal has built a mansion


Last edited by Hackett: 08-19-2011 at 08:54 PM.
Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 08:51 PM
  #35
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 15,088
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railman View Post
How does any cup victory give you bragging rights?
As a fan to other fans? I thought that was pretty clear.

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 09:13 PM
  #36
CTHabsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 403
vCash: 500
For those of you whining about how long it has been since the Canadiens won the Stanley Cup, perhaps you should consider how long it had been since the last time the Bruins had won, prior to this past June. The last time that Boston won the Bruins were led by a young Bobby Orr, Guy Lafleur was a rookie, hockey players were not allowed to leave the Soviet Union to play in the NHL, the WHA had not played a game, Richard Nixon was President of the USA (first term), and a Japanese car on the streets of North America was a rare site. If you were born on the day that the Bruins won the Cup in 1972, you were legally drinking throughout North America on the day that the Canadiens won their last Cup.

CTHabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2011, 09:28 PM
  #37
CrazyShea
Registered User
 
CrazyShea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Rock
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
If an athlete had huge financial problems and was forced to sell his SC ring to you, would you feel as though you won the cup?

As a fan, I don't see how you can feel any sense of pride in cup runs you've never experienced.
Well if the team wins a cup and you watched it do you feel as if you won the cup?

CrazyShea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 09:48 AM
  #38
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,928
vCash: 611
Sorry but most > recent. There are more books, videos, etc about the 3 most successful franchise in the WORLD then who recently won.

Drive for 7 or drive for 25...

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 10:04 AM
  #39
Max Levine
Registered User
 
Max Levine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,004
vCash: 500
Most people who have witnessed the 70s domination (or the 50s, 60s and 70s) wouldn't trade those memories for a recent Cup.

Max Levine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 11:11 AM
  #40
Hank Scorpio
Registered User
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 472
vCash: 500
I'd say the amount of cups won but more because of the significance of the amount of Championships won. Next to the New York Yankee's (with 26 wins) no team has won as many championships as we have so, in a sense, it sort of transcends our sport.

Winning the cup this year is, obviously, my (and, I'm assuming yours... even that Boston fan I saw commenting earlier) biggest hope I have for this team and I would love to celebrate a cup in my early twenties but, what I think is more significant, is the fact that our next cup puts us one behind the Yankee's for the most championships in modern sports.

Hank Scorpio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:23 PM
  #41
WeeBey
Registered User
 
WeeBey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I think you are sadly side-stepping the issue. Just wip it out and check who's got the longest. You'd save yourself a lot of time.
I'm sure if he does that he'll come back here with a thread called "longest or widest?"

Also, if having 24 cups (most of which I'm sure a lot people here weren't old enough to remember) makes everyone feel better about the Bruins winning it, then whatever gets you by I guess.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 08-20-2011 at 01:41 PM. Reason: merged
WeeBey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 03:08 PM
  #42
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
I'm sure if he does that he'll come back here with a thread called "longest or widest?"
.
+1 sir, that was hilarious. You win an Internet.

I don't want you anywhere near me, but you still win an Internet

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 03:21 PM
  #43
Playmaker09
Valar Morghulis
 
Playmaker09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyShea View Post
Well if the team wins a cup and you watched it do you feel as if you won the cup?
Do I really need to dumb it down for you?

That doesn't even deserve a proper response.

Playmaker09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 05:02 PM
  #44
Bob Cole
Registered User
 
Bob Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,397
vCash: 500
Since we have 11 more cups than 2nd place (not even close), its easily the most cups for me. Were by far the most successful organization. Nothing beats the sense of pride I feel when I wear the bleu blanc rouge.

Bob Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2011, 03:42 AM
  #45
Kue
Interviewing for GM
 
Kue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland OR
Country: United States
Posts: 466
vCash: 500
It depends. Getting your sixth cup as an original six team isn't that impressive as a franchise, so when compared to the Bruins, the Habs will def come out on top.

Now, when Detroit was winning cups left and right from the mid 90's to late 2000's, they had the upper hand. If the B's keep winning, then I'll be worried.

Kue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2011, 09:41 AM
  #46
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,144
vCash: 500
Since we're talking in the hypothetical here, how many historical Cup wins would people be willing to give away to secure assurance of winning the NEXT Cup. Given the age group on HFboards and the fact that most people here have experienced 0-2 Cups in their young lives, I suspect most would trade away many.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2011, 10:40 AM
  #47
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,114
vCash: 500
Not so sure. I really wanna catch up with the Yankees

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2011, 12:29 PM
  #48
usual suspects
Registered User
 
usual suspects's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,013
vCash: 500
Hey folks,

Saw this on the main page on Hfboards and came in to check out the thread. Great topic and interesting points of view.

Anyways, first of all yes I am a Bruins fan and of course I am thrilled that my team won. But with that said I thought I'd add some thoughts around the 24 vs recent cup discussion.

24 cups is something to be proud for Habs fans. No doubt and it is truly incredible (I'm gagging as I write this lol). The top in terms of championships in the NHL and right up there as far as a professional sports team. You won them and kudos to the organization and the fans. There was a time when the Habs didn't go more than 7 years without winning a cup and how sweet would that be if any team could say that or even start that run now. That means up until about 20 years ago every generation of Habs fans saw a Stanley Cup win or 2, or 3 etc in their life time. It is the basis for how nuts you guys are about your team. Be proud of it because no one can take it away....oh man major gag reflex..

It's a proud way to brag about your team in historical terms but not something to throw down arguments today because the success of the team in the past 18-20 years has been no better than most other NHL teams and until this year Boston had a 39 years of that same stance minus many cups in comparison to Montreal.

I'm 37 so when Boston last one I was not born yet so those 5 previous Stanley Cups as nice as they were to say my team had won a Stanley Cup it is so much sweeter to have witnessed one and hopefully a few more before my days are over. Do those 5 cups have meaning to me as a fan, it sure does because its part of the teams history. It may not be 24 Stanley Cups but in the end it is all just history and when I say that I don't mean to discredit them, I think I've made it clear that I don't.
Even Boston's win this year it will eventually just be history until they win another one which may or may not happen again while I am alive. If they don't I do now have the ability to look back to 2011 and think about the run and the games etc.. and cherish it. I won't be thinking about 1970 or 1972 because I didn't experience them but it is the Orr, Esposito generation of fans and I am happy to know the team won and people who were fans back then like me cherished and enjoyed every second...as much as it makes me sound like a goof it bridges generation of fans.My brother is a habs fan and was 6 when the habs wont in 71 which is the first cup he remembers from there they won 6 more with the last one being in 93 ..he wouldn't trade those in for nothing....but he like you guys is so hungry for a new title and wants it now. It's not like he doesn't care about the 24 cups or has memories about those cups but what's done is done..live in the now.

It's a shame but every fan from every team should get that experience. You as habs fans (well some of you) have enjoyed and can remember a cup victory and there is nothing like it. We put a lot of time, blood, tears (more than others) and money and its a nice payback when your team finally gets there.

So...yes this was long....but all in all....24 cups is incredible..be proud and talk about it as a history of your team and what they have accomplished. Fans of other teams are jealous of that success but its not something to throw in peoples faces. Saying "well we have 24 cups" make you sound satisfied and content with that and you guys know as well as I do that your fanbase is craving for more. I wouldn't expect anything less.

It's all about winning and nothing is sweeter than the present. I'm sure Montreal will get there again one day and I won't be happy just like you weren't when Boston won this year but until than the past is the past and soon enough if Boston doesn't win again this year the past will be the past. The Stanley Cup drought will be 1 instead of 39 but I'll be happier fan....at least for a year or two :-)

usual suspects

usual suspects is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2011, 01:12 PM
  #49
FallsForItEveryYear
Registered User
 
FallsForItEveryYear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,769
vCash: 500
as a bruins fan i obviously have a bias but i feel like my rule for bragging rights works well.

while your team is current champion you have bragging rights over everyone else.that should go without saying.

start comparing two teams not currently champs and it gets a little more complicated.

with each year further removed from most recent win the more history gains in bragging rights. but history has limited weight and really should only get used as a tie breaker. i think what your team has accomplished both in terms of championships head to head success and consistency over the course of say the last 10 years or so should count far more than anything else.

if you have to go back 25 years to hold more cups than someone with a recent cup your reaching a bit too much. the age of the arguing parties also matters. if its two 50 year olds then you can go further back.

if like the op said he wasnt even alive for montreals last cup he holds zero bragging rights. you were born on third base and are trying to claim a triple. the ones you experience first hand are far more meaningful. as i said before recent success and head to head playoffs as more valuable than anything that happened before you were born (old enough to understand what you were watching)

as a bruins fan if we get knocked out this coming season for example i wouldnt brag to a detroit fan because while mine is more recent they have multiple in the recent past.

FallsForItEveryYear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.