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Faceoff Stats in Minor Leagues: Do we have an up and coming center?

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08-19-2011, 11:05 AM
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ZemgusWho
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Faceoff Stats in Minor Leagues: Do we have an up and coming center?

I've advocated trading Gaustad a few times, because I see his only asset as his faceoff ability. But this post is only indirectly about Gaustad. But I know there's a hole in my argument because I don't know our prospects' faceoff ability.

I know the AHL doesn't track faceoff stats. Has anyone who has watched enough Pirates games able to give a sense of whether any of the centers in our system are any good at faceoffs?

I know Adam was abysmal in the NHL last season (~33%) but I was wondering if there's anything based on his play in the AHL that might indicate he might grow into a better faceoff player- or perhaps if there's anyone else in our system who might be a potential replacement for Gaustad if/when he's not re-signed.

Or are we a system that just tends to breed 45% faceoff men?

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08-19-2011, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronin View Post
I've advocated trading Gaustad a few times, because I see his only asset as his faceoff ability. But this post is only indirectly about Gaustad. But I know there's a hole in my argument because I don't know our prospects' faceoff ability.

I know the AHL doesn't track faceoff stats. Has anyone who has watched enough Pirates games able to give a sense of whether any of the centers in our system are any good at faceoffs?

I know Adam was abysmal in the NHL last season (~33%) but I was wondering if there's anything based on his play in the AHL that might indicate he might grow into a better faceoff player- or perhaps if there's anyone else in our system who might be a potential replacement for Gaustad if/when he's not re-signed.

Or are we a system that just tends to breed 45% faceoff men?

you're doing it wrong

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08-19-2011, 01:17 PM
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brian_griffin
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Anyone have stats on that center prospect "Dearth" the Sabres have been developing the past few seasons? I can't recall his first name, I think might be Woeful?


[ok, I'll stop now - had to throw it in since Jame posted reply]

edit: Although it would be an inside joke if the org depth charts we use on this board for projected future season lineups included "Woeful Dearth" as an actual depth center.

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08-19-2011, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronin View Post
I've advocated trading Gaustad a few times, because I see his only asset as his faceoff ability. But this post is only indirectly about Gaustad. But I know there's a hole in my argument because I don't know our prospects' faceoff ability.

I know the AHL doesn't track faceoff stats. Has anyone who has watched enough Pirates games able to give a sense of whether any of the centers in our system are any good at faceoffs?

I know Adam was abysmal in the NHL last season (~33%) but I was wondering if there's anything based on his play in the AHL that might indicate he might grow into a better faceoff player- or perhaps if there's anyone else in our system who might be a potential replacement for Gaustad if/when he's not re-signed.

Or are we a system that just tends to breed 45% faceoff men?
There's exactly one center prospect with NHL upside that played in the AHL last year (and is still with the organization). And that's Adam.

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08-19-2011, 01:21 PM
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The Q had that as a stat line for some time, but they've gone to the same company that provides the OHL and WHL stats and I haven't noticed it as part of their stats package. Byron was very good at it as a junior player, also blocked a ton of shots too, compared to his peers.

And yes, it sucks that the AHL does not, even in their advanced stat package, have anything about faceoffs.

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08-19-2011, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
The Q had that as a stat line for some time, but they've gone to the same company that provides the OHL and WHL stats and I haven't noticed it as part of their stats package. Byron was very good at it as a junior player, also blocked a ton of shots too, compared to his peers.

And yes, it sucks that the AHL does not, even in their advanced stat package, have anything about faceoffs.
Good for Calgary!

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08-19-2011, 01:42 PM
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Leino was 57.4% on faceoffs of 136 taken last year...a bit off topic, but relative.

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08-19-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THamps View Post
Good for Calgary!
It is -- I'd love to see the kid succeed, even out west. He's all brass, that one.

Relative to the original question, it sucks that the Q has moved away from a better statistical package just so they have a similar 'net view as the other CHL leagues.

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08-19-2011, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
The Q had that as a stat line for some time, but they've gone to the same company that provides the OHL and WHL stats and I haven't noticed it as part of their stats package. Byron was very good at it as a junior player, also blocked a ton of shots too, compared to his peers.

And yes, it sucks that the AHL does not, even in their advanced stat package, have anything about faceoffs.
This is pushing off topic but they don't show TOI either, right? I've always been interest in testing the claim about how many defensemen allegedly play "35-40 minutes a night."




Anyway, back to the original topic, since there aren't a lot of natural centers higher in the system I guess it's safe to say there isn't a lot of face off ability in AHL-level prospects. If Adam can stick at center I would like to see Adams/Goose/whoever try to get him to use his size for leverage the way Goose does. Size + leverage + quick hands (which he seems to have) seems to be a good recipe for FO ability, no?


Based on scouting reports, it seems like Sundher and Jacobs have some ability in the dot as well. Anyone else feel this way?

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08-19-2011, 05:36 PM
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ZemgusWho
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post

you're doing it wrong
Crafting a HFboard persona based around hating one player that everyone else loves, and feeling like as if one player doesn't get anywhere near enough respect? No, sounds about right to me.

Quote:
And yes, it sucks that the AHL does not, even in their advanced stat package, have anything about faceoffs.
I mean after finally adding TOI (just last season! ) I guess I can only hope. I've seen probably no more than 2 minutes of Pirates action the last 2 seasons, so I only have the faintest idea of how some of the young guys are doing.

Quote:
Anyone have stats on that center prospect "Dearth" the Sabres have been developing the past few seasons? I can't recall his first name, I think might be Woeful?
C'mon, Dearth was a 60% faceoff guy last season.

anyway, until a faceoff stat exists for the AHL, I'll have to make my case for developing Adam and not re-signing Gaustad based on other factors.

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08-19-2011, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronin View Post
anyway, until a faceoff stat exists for the AHL, I'll have to make my case for developing Adam and not re-signing Gaustad based on other factors.
Was that the reason why you created this thread?

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08-19-2011, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
Based on scouting reports, it seems like Sundher and Jacobs have some ability in the dot as well. Anyone else feel this way?
They are decent, but nothing special.

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Old
08-20-2011, 10:35 AM
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Was that the reason why you created this thread?
well I made this argument and realized that if it was going to hold any water, I needed to know if Adam was any good at faceoffs in the AHL.

but I do think its a fair question. I mean, I think that faceoffs are one of the big "+1" stats that make a difference between a utility forward that can play wing or center, and a guy who projects as a true #1 center. It's not the only thing you look for, but I think its a big part of the equation.

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08-20-2011, 10:46 AM
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Most have covered the stats of the other leagues. I've tried myself to get the stats on success rate and number taken of those leagues. I was quite disappointed they didn't have them.

Not really sure what your point is though. Faceoffs are just one facet of a center's game and there are plenty a good centers that aren't that great at them. As for replacing Goose, I know this may shock you, but I don't see that happening. He brings more to the table than just faceoffs and isn't going anywhere.

Another guy that's pretty solid at faceoffs is Roy. He is also a good defensive center. This will reduce how much Goose is used in those roles. This should please you.


Last edited by joshjull: 08-20-2011 at 10:52 AM.
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