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Summer ChangeUp Thread: All-time Under Appreciated Rangers

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Old
08-18-2011, 10:39 AM
  #51
Thordic
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We have a long history of blaming our defensemen when our team is struggling.

Even looking back to the dark ages, Boris Miranov took a load of abuse when he was one of the better and more physical defensemen we had.

As a fanbase, it's like we expect 6 flawless all-stars on the back end.

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Old
08-18-2011, 10:55 AM
  #52
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Park > Graves

But, we are talking about #2

Leetch > Park

17 seasons as a NYR > 8 as a NYR

As a Ranger
1129gp 981p(2nd all time NYR both categories) > 465gp 378p

Career
1205gp 1028p > 1113gp 896p

Stanley Cup + Conn Smythe > n/a
Norris x2 > n/a (granted because of Orr)

Playoffs as Ranger
82gp 89p (#1 all time NYR) > 64gp 44p

#2 rightfully should have Leetch's name attached to it in the rafters.
#2 should have been retired before Leetch came along.

Stats do not tell the whole story. Park may have been the best bodychecker of his era, fought all comers, and was the backbone of the team.

If Park played today he would be a god to the fans.

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Old
08-18-2011, 05:45 PM
  #53
bernmeister
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Reijo Routsalainen
Kelly Kisio
Mark Pavelich
Tony Amonte
Jan Erixon

edit: add McEwen

and though appreciated, not enough, Douglas Bradford Park.
Cat should never have traded him and Ratelle + Zanussi for Espo + Vadnais.

Was it John Lennon who sang
'you don't know what you got until you lose it'....


Last edited by bernmeister: 08-18-2011 at 05:54 PM. Reason: error of omission correction
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Old
08-18-2011, 05:51 PM
  #54
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
#2 should have been retired before Leetch came along.

Stats do not tell the whole story. Park may have been the best bodychecker of his era, fought all comers, and was the backbone of the team.

If Park played today he would be a god to the fans.
Leetch (the penultimate skater, able to go backwards as good as Orr) and
Park (accurately characterized above, I remember those hip checks sent guys flyin')
are actually two halves of the ultimate composite defenseman.

The production per game is respectably close, edge to Leetch;
intangibles, also close, edge to Park.

We can brag we saw 'em both!

----

underline: applaud your correct use of lower case.
As there is truly only the one, a better comparison would be to an Archangel.

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Old
08-18-2011, 06:24 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
#2 should have been retired before Leetch came along.

Stats do not tell the whole story. Park may have been the best bodychecker of his era, fought all comers, and was the backbone of the team.

If Park played today he would be a god to the fans.
It's debatable, certainly. It's close.

Had he played his career here, without a doubt. Ultimately, and unfortunately, he didn't play here long enough.

Him (and Ratelle) getting traded to Boston is a huge pain in the neck.

Now, i wasn't alive to see it, but trading those guys for Espo would have made my blood boil.

In this case, stats play a HUGE part. They don't when figuring what a good prospect is, what a good player is to add to your roster, so on so forth. When talking about jersey numbers being retired? Absolutely, in some shape or form.

I'm glad they waited to retire that number. It ended up going to arguably the best American defenseman in NHL history.

And selfishly, my favorite number AND my favorite player.

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Old
08-18-2011, 06:35 PM
  #56
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James Patrick

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Old
08-18-2011, 06:37 PM
  #57
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
It's debatable, certainly. It's close.

Had he played his career here, without a doubt. Ultimately, and unfortunately, he didn't play here long enough.

Him (and Ratelle) getting traded to Boston is a huge pain in the neck.

Now, i wasn't alive to see it, but trading those guys for Espo would have made my blood boil.

In this case, stats play a HUGE part. They don't when figuring what a good prospect is, what a good player is to add to your roster, so on so forth. When talking about jersey numbers being retired? Absolutely, in some shape or form.

I'm glad they waited to retire that number. It ended up going to arguably the best American defenseman in NHL history.

And selfishly, my favorite number AND my favorite player.
Statswise Park deserved it, too. Certainly more than Graves. I liked Graves a lot, but it was all cheapened to me when they retired 9 for Graves.

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Old
08-18-2011, 11:51 PM
  #58
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James Patrick was great. I'd love to set a show up on MSG where Mike Keenan is in a dunking booth and Patrick and Amonte can come back and keep throwing balls at Keenan for as long as they want. Yes they returned acquisitions that won the Cup, but he treated both players like dog crap.

I think as Rangers fans we all kinda get a little sad that Greschner, Beezer, Patrick, Erixon, Turcotte, Gartner, Weight, and Amonte were not around for the Cup. Liked all those guys.

One more underrated guy although he wasn't here very long; Larry Melnyk.

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Old
08-19-2011, 12:11 AM
  #59
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its unreal to me that someone would say park is the greatest ranger they ever saw. everyones answer should be leetch.

and nothing is cheapened about retiring 9 for graves. guy deserved it.

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Old
08-19-2011, 06:19 AM
  #60
mhurley
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Walter Tkachuk.

He is the most underated and underappreciated player in Ranger history. Walter always quietly got the job done. Best two way player ever for the Rangers. He was the Kris Draper of his era.

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Old
08-19-2011, 08:53 AM
  #61
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
its unreal to me that someone would say park is the greatest ranger they ever saw. everyones answer should be leetch.

and nothing is cheapened about retiring 9 for graves. guy deserved it.
Park had equal offensive skills to Leetch and was a much more physical presence and was the guy who stood up for his teammates, even taking on guys like Dave Schultz.

You admire Avery for physicality and he wasn't even in the same ballpark as Park physically.

Graves was a good player. Park was a Hall of Famer and one of the best dmen to ever play. They retired Graves because he was a good player and a great guy, but he was miles behind Park in ability and accomplishment.

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Old
08-19-2011, 08:56 AM
  #62
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Jan Erixon
I remember Michel Bergeron making Erixon a healthy scratch early in the season, and we were like 'you have got to be kidding me'. Later that same season Bergeron was asked about some decision he made during a game that didn't work, and he said 'what do I know...I sat out Jan Erixon for a game once, and now I finally realize he's one of my best players.'

The only thing Erixon did not do was score.

Sergei Nemchinov
He came over as Kovalev's caddy, but it became quickly apparent that this guy could play. Like Erixon he did all things necessary to win...completely without fanfare.

Normand Rochefort
Injuries prevented him from playing many games for us, but he was the first mean defenseman we had since Barry Beck. He was followed by Beukeboom and Moller, and it was so nice to see people pay a price to enter our zone.

Joey Kocur
The ultimate enforcer, and he could play a little bit too. He the changed the culture of the team. More effective in his role (albeit in a much shorter time frame) than Chris Nilan was.

John VanBiesbrouck
Did so many good things on poor Ranger teams, but his status was diminished to some extent by what Mike Richter accomplished.

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Old
08-19-2011, 09:10 AM
  #63
007
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Jan Erixon -- a bit before my time, but a great player. Gretzky called him the best checker in the league (because he didn't want to give Tikkanen a big head, he joked).

Sergei Nemchinov -- my all-time favourite Russian player, lightyears ahead of the rest. I loved his signature strong move from the boards to right in front of the net.

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Old
08-19-2011, 09:31 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Park had equal offensive skills to Leetch and was a much more physical presence and was the guy who stood up for his teammates, even taking on guys like Dave Schultz.

You admire Avery for physicality and he wasn't even in the same ballpark as Park physically.

Graves was a good player. Park was a Hall of Famer and one of the best dmen to ever play. They retired Graves because he was a good player and a great guy, but he was miles behind Park in ability and accomplishment.
so being physical is an attribute that makes you the greatest ranger you ever saw? i disagree man, im takin leetch.

no 94, graves doesnt get his number retired.

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Old
08-19-2011, 10:20 AM
  #65
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
so being physical is an attribute that makes you the greatest ranger you ever saw? i disagree man, im takin leetch.

no 94, graves doesnt get his number retired.
What?

I said Park had the offensive skills of Leetch, in some ways better, AND was one of the greatest body checkers to ever play the game, and served as sometimes policeman.

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Old
08-19-2011, 10:25 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
What?

I said Park had the offensive skills of Leetch, in some ways better, AND was one of the greatest body checkers to ever play the game, and served as sometimes policeman.
and im saying that in 8 seasons as a ranger, make him greater than leetch in your eyes? sorry but i dont think so.

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Old
08-19-2011, 10:36 AM
  #67
Staals Eye
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Question to Chip, did you live through the Park years?

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Old
08-19-2011, 10:45 AM
  #68
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhurley View Post
Walter Tkachuk.

He is the most underated and underappreciated player in Ranger history. Walter always quietly got the job done. Best two way player ever for the Rangers. He was the Kris Draper of his era.
Only didn't include him because I thought, especially when he played, he was recognized and appreciated.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:08 AM
  #69
chosen
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Only didn't include him because I thought, especially when he played, he was recognized and appreciated.
Not sure he was fully appreciated. Possibly the toughest Ranger to knock off the puck. One time Espo blindsided him and bounced off him like he hit a wall.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:09 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
Question to Chip, did you live through the Park years?
no i didn't. and i know where you are going with this. but i didnt see gordie howe play either and i know gretzky is the greatest of all time. park was a great player, but 8 years in new york is not better than the career leetch had here.

now i feel like leetch might be the under appreciated one.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:17 AM
  #71
Staals Eye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
no i didn't. and i know where you are going with this. but i didnt see gordie howe play either and i know gretzky is the greatest of all time. park was a great player, but 8 years in new york is not better than the career leetch had here.

now i feel like leetch might be the under appreciated one.
I wasn't going any where with it. I was just curious. Technically, I didn't watch either of them play, as I didn't get in to hockey till 05. So I can't comment on either of them.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:20 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
I wasn't going any where with it. I was just curious. Technically, I didn't watch either of them play, as I didn't get in to hockey till 05. So I can't comment on either of them.
its a shame you couldnt see leetch. 2 players come to mind for the greatest ranger of all time. leetch and gilbert. and leetch takes it for me. pretty easily. i met him 2 years ago. great guy

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Old
08-19-2011, 01:31 PM
  #73
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
its a shame you couldnt see leetch. 2 players come to mind for the greatest ranger of all time. leetch and gilbert. and leetch takes it for me. pretty easily. i met him 2 years ago. great guy
I played golf with Gilbert twice. He was toasted both times. Fun guy, though. Always wondered if the rumors were true that he was a major negative factor in regards to Murdoch.

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Old
08-19-2011, 01:44 PM
  #74
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I played golf with Gilbert twice. He was toasted both times. Fun guy, though. Always wondered if the rumors were true that he was a major negative factor in regards to Murdoch.
seems like he is a great personality.

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Old
08-19-2011, 07:31 PM
  #75
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