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Doughty Speaks: Contract not done, rumors untrue

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Old
08-18-2011, 09:24 PM
  #101
SlappyMcGee
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Unless I'm just not seeing the posts, then I don't believe anyone ever said Ryan would fetch an offer sheet worth 4 1st rounders. I think you misunderstood his post.

In summary: If Ryan, as good as he is, did not receive any offers then why would Doughty receive any being that it would cost a team even more to offer sheet Doughty than it would Ryan. (I'm pretty sure that was the meaning behind the Ryan reference)

In any case, is it just me, or does Drew look like he's in much better shape than he was last year? He looked pretty fit in that video. Good news for the Kings!
I think the thrust of the counter argument is "Because Drew Doughty is that much better."

Which is false-ish.

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08-18-2011, 09:44 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
You wouldn't have to give 4 1st round picks for Ryan. That's why he made a much better target. I don't think you understood that part of the point I was making.
Because any bid requiring less than 4 1sts would be most likely less than fair market value and rejected by Ryan, but even if it was signed by Ryan, the Ducks would match in a heartbeat. If you want to get the RFA, you have to go a bit above market value, like the Oilers with Penner, and that would require a bid that means 4 1sts in compensation. It's actually pretty understandable if you think about it.

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08-18-2011, 09:50 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Unless I'm just not seeing the posts, then I don't believe anyone ever said Ryan would fetch an offer sheet worth 4 1st rounders. I think you misunderstood his post.

In summary: If Ryan, as good as he is, did not receive any offers then why would Doughty receive any being that it would cost a team even more to offer sheet Doughty than it would Ryan. (I'm pretty sure that was the meaning behind the Ryan reference)

In any case, is it just me, or does Drew look like he's in much better shape than he was last year? He looked pretty fit in that video. Good news for the Kings!
The reference actually means that to get Ryan (IE bid so high that the other team wouldn't match and take the comp. instead) would require an offer that calls for 4 1sts rounders in compensation. The same goes for Doughty. My opinion was that Doughty is worth 4 1sts, Ryan isn't.

Either way, it's a point from another thread, and one I'm sure has now been beat to death. As for Drew, glad to see he looks great, maybe it'll quite the naysayers and hopefully he has a great season. We need to get a cup before San jose.

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08-18-2011, 09:52 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SlappyMcGee View Post
I think the thrust of the counter argument is "Because Drew Doughty is that much better."

Which is false-ish.
Drew is better. I'm not even sure how it's debateable.

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08-18-2011, 10:10 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Drew is better. I'm not even sure how it's debateable.
It's debateable because they don't play the same position. That said, I have no problem saying Doughty is a more valuable player based on the facttha he's a stud d-man.

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08-18-2011, 10:20 PM
  #106
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It isn't debatable because Doughty is better.

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08-18-2011, 10:22 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post

In any case, is it just me, or does Drew look like he's in much better shape than he was last year? He looked pretty fit in that video. Good news for the Kings!
I definitely thought he looked leaner in the face. I just have a feeling he's going to have an amazing year.

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08-19-2011, 07:47 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Because any bid requiring less than 4 1sts would be most likely less than fair market value and rejected by Ryan, but even if it was signed by Ryan, the Ducks would match in a heartbeat. If you want to get the RFA, you have to go a bit above market value, like the Oilers with Penner, and that would require a bid that means 4 1sts in compensation. It's actually pretty understandable if you think about it.
No, because if you think about it a team could have gone as high as $7.5M AAV on an offer sheet for Ryan and would not have to give up 4 1st round picks. I'm pretty sure an offer of like 6-7 year for an AAV of $7.5M would have caused the Ducks a problem and also gotten Ryan's attention. I base this assumption on the fact that the deal he signed has an AAV of $5.1M. A bid for Ryan would not have required losing 4 1st round picks as compensation.

A team would have to offer Doughty an AAV that would be in the 4 1st round draft pick range. So you are wrong if you think about it, but you have had a problem doing that when it comes to Doughty and the real potential of him actually receiving an offer sheet. The actual cost to the team making the offer sheet to Doughty would be enormous, and is therefore much more unlikely than it would have been in Bobby Ryan's case.

Basically, you refuse to see the leverage that the Kings have in their negotiations with Doughty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Unless I'm just not seeing the posts, then I don't believe anyone ever said Ryan would fetch an offer sheet worth 4 1st rounders. I think you misunderstood his post.

In summary: If Ryan, as good as he is, did not receive any offers then why would Doughty receive any being that it would cost a team even more to offer sheet Doughty than it would Ryan. (I'm pretty sure that was the meaning behind the Ryan reference)

In any case, is it just me, or does Drew look like he's in much better shape than he was last year? He looked pretty fit in that video. Good news for the Kings!
See, this Ducks' fan gets it.


Last edited by KINGS17: 08-19-2011 at 08:15 AM.
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08-19-2011, 08:09 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Sorry but Meehan and Mark Guy care about what is best for *them* an them alone. It has been proven over and over again. That said, if you want to get paid big every player knows that you hire them. And when that big money contract runs out you walk.
This is why, and it's not entirely fair to a 21 year old, that if a deal isn't done by a certain date, it is the player's responsibility to look at his side of the negotiating table and determine whether or not their requests are reasonable.

I don't believe that all agents negotiate with the player's best interests as their sole criteria.

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08-19-2011, 08:27 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
It's debateable because they don't play the same position. That said, I have no problem saying Doughty is a more valuable player based on the facttha he's a stud d-man.
Love your avatar.

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08-19-2011, 08:34 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
No, because if you think about it a team could have gone as high as $7.5M AAV on an offer sheet for Ryan and would not have to give up 4 1st round picks. I'm pretty sure an offer of like 6-7 year for an AAV of $7.5M would have caused the Ducks a problem and also gotten Ryan's attention. I base this assumption on the fact that the deal he signed has an AAV of $5.1M. A bid for Ryan would not have required losing 4 1st round picks as compensation.

A team would have to offer Doughty an AAV that would be in the 4 1st round draft pick range. So you are wrong if you think about it, but you have had a problem doing that when it comes to Doughty and the real potential of him actually receiving an offer sheet. The actual cost to the team making the offer sheet to Doughty would be enormous, and is therefore much more unlikely than it would have been in Bobby Ryan's case.

Basically, you refuse to see the leverage that the Kings have in their negotiations with Doughty.



See, this Ducks' fan gets it.
Just because you believe it to be true doesn't mean I have to. We have argued this back and forth for two threads now and you'll have you opinion of the Kings leverage on Drew, while I believe Drew's leverage is much higher than you assert. So I suggest we just agree to disagree.

As for Drew's contract in general, which was the original intent of these threads, I believe the real issue is $6.8 million. I don't think DL wants to make Drew the highest paid member on the team, and I think Meehan/Drew does, so that might be what is the actual battle line. I wonder if DL is trying to find a way to keep the cap hit below Kopitar's, while still getting 7-9 years on the deal and Drew/Meehan just isn't biting.

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08-19-2011, 08:40 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Just because you believe it to be true doesn't mean I have to. We have argued this back and forth for two threads now and you'll have you opinion of the Kings leverage on Drew, while I believe Drew's leverage is much higher than you assert. So I suggest we just agree to disagree.

As for Drew's contract in general, which was the original intent of these threads, I believe the real issue is $6.8 million. I don't think DL wants to make Drew the highest paid member on the team, and I think Meehan/Drew does, so that might be what is the actual battle line. I wonder if DL is trying to find a way to keep the cap hit below Kopitar's, while still getting 7-9 years on the deal and Drew/Meehan just isn't biting.
He has already said that he would, if the number of years were adequate.

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08-19-2011, 03:50 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
"Doth" is an exclusively singular word. It isn't used correctly here.
Fine: YOU doth protest too much. Or is it thou? This will keep me up at night.

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand.

A 5 year deal is less than ideal in my eyes, and not Lombardi's Plan A, but I'm not worried about a holdout. Meehan and Lombardi are locked in a real tussle, but Doughty himself will not let it go that far.

The Los Angeles Times says Lombardi wants 7 or 9 years, Doughty's camp prefers 7 or 5. So a 7 year deal does seem likely. I'm going to go ahead and guess that a 5 year deal could be the back-up plan if a longer deal can't be agreed upon before training camp.

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08-19-2011, 04:13 PM
  #114
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To the guy asking why a team would offersheet Doughty?

Because that teams name imo is the New York Islanders. They have cap space plenty of cheap youth and are likely itching for a franchise player to bring the fans back in droves, sell merchandise and win games. He would also make them a more attractive UFA destination, maybe they get a new arena even down the line. The guy is important to any team he goes to, especially a team like that trying to build or rebuild a market for the sport. He could live in NYC still if he played there too, my guess is they did offersheet him and Doughty didn't sign it.

Personally I think it's naive to think Doughty hasn't received at least one offersheet. That kind of player can make or break a franchise.

I guarantee Islanders fans would go absolutely nuts if it happened. Doughty-Streit to name the top 2d, Tavares, Moulson, Grabner on offense, maybe Nabakov in nets? It would instantly improve their chances.

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08-19-2011, 04:55 PM
  #115
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08-19-2011, 05:14 PM
  #116
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Im happy we got the Stamkos deal done. LA fans I feel for ya except yours is taking longer. The rumors get old fast.

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08-19-2011, 05:44 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyersMagic57 View Post
Does it honestly matter whether you make 5 million a year or 8 million a year. Thats still a lot of money and you're still going to be set for life if you're making that over a 5-10 year span. Just take what they offer you because at the end of your career you will still have a lot of money regardless of whether its 60 million over 9 years or 30 million over 9 years
OH HELL YEAH That $3 million makes a big difference. Say we take that $3 mil, and take an above average yearly income of a single person of say $70,000. Divide that 3mil by 70k and you got nearly 43 extra years, of any living expenses (assuming basic ones) paid off. You got a brother Doughty? Hey no problem your **** is paid off. Don't got a brother? Hey the mom's only 45, she doesn't have to work another day in her life. Look at all those basketball ******** having friends and friends of friends living off them in their big ass entourages. Not saying hockey will go down that road (hopefully never), but to say that a $3mil difference is nothing especially considering escrow and taxes is farfetched.

Doughty will stay in LA, just need something to talk about during this summer.

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08-19-2011, 05:45 PM
  #118
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do you guys remember those crazy rumors about jack johnson a few years ago, that he wan'ted 5 million a year or he'd take his services elsewhere,

he ended up signing for 3 million over 2 years,

maybe the contract drew ends up signing will be for 35 million over 6 years?

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08-19-2011, 06:06 PM
  #119
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If Doughty had the defensive game that Weber does, he'd be worth more than him.

Unfortunately, Doughty's defensive game leaves a bit to be desired, I would guess $6m would be fair value for both sides.

Just another example of another player not willing to work with his team to ensure they aren't *****ed somewhere down the line.

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08-19-2011, 06:29 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepainter View Post
If Doughty had the defensive game that Weber does, he'd be worth more than him.

Unfortunately, Doughty's defensive game leaves a bit to be desired, I would guess $6m would be fair value for both sides.

Just another example of another player not willing to work with his team to ensure they aren't *****ed somewhere down the line.
Doughty needs more consistency. His defensive and offensive game have both been stellar, they just have trouble being there every night, but of course he is 21, so he can ride that for a little longer. As for the contract, that is up to Meehan. Doughty isn't twirling his mustache and cackling manically... They pay agents considerably, it's best they use them, and that is what Doughty is doing, just like a vast majority of the NHL.

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08-20-2011, 01:29 AM
  #121
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He has already said that he would, if the number of years were adequate.
Link?

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08-20-2011, 10:52 AM
  #122
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nice hat
apparently they asked him to take off the Leafs hat before the camera rolled

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08-20-2011, 11:24 AM
  #123
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hw looks like hes in good shape.....not as heavy as last year.....A deal will get done soon IMO...
Agreed, he looks like he lost a lot of body fat. He'll have a huge season.

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08-20-2011, 12:16 PM
  #124
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Link?
Second to last paragraph down.


http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/201...oesnt-kno.html

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08-20-2011, 12:57 PM
  #125
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Thanks. Here is the quote from Lombardi in the article:

Quote:
... on if he is comfortable making Doughty the highest-paid King? "I guess it would depend on the term (length of the contract). That's the other thing that comes into this, too. There's a direct ratio of how many free agent years I get. So I don't think you can ask that question in a vacuum."

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