HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Value NYR-NJD blockbuster Stepan + Larsson as principals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-20-2011, 01:06 PM
  #51
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
Larsson would be a nice addition and I'm willing to give up Del Zotto, but not Stepan. DZ has yet to reach his full potential and it would be better to let him develop. Stepan is one of our younger centers, but put up 45 points in his rookie season, with 21 goals. Anisimov, Callahan, and Dubinsky didn't reach either for some time, Anisimov has yet to score 20. I understand the logic behind the trade, but it just isn't needed. The Rangers have more than enough defensive depth and the mere fact that you think Larsson is suited for top line minutes in his rookie season is ludicrous.

You also have to think about it, would a long time divisional rival like the Devils give up their best prospect in years? No way. Larsson is a stud and is already built for the NHL. The Devils have a lack of puck moving defenseman and Larsson solves that problem.

Stepan would be nice for the Devils, considering he'd solve any center depth problems and would be a great # 2 for them. Del Zotto, despite being a puck moving defenseman won't provide as much appeal to the Devils. He isn't built like Larsson, and is far too inconsistent. The Devils would want more.

The second deal is laughable and absolutely atrocious at best. There isn't any way the Devils would deal Parise to a rival like the Rangers. Parise is a 90 point player and can dominate with Kovalchuk, there's no reason to trade him for scraps in comparison.

Girardi and Boyle have value, but not nearly enough. They're good, but they aren't all stars. Boyle is still a 4th liner, not a top line player, his 20 goal season doesn't up his value by too much. Girardi is a # 2 on the Rangers, but he'd get downgraded to at leas # 3 on the Devils. He's a solid guy to have, but he doesn't produce that much.

Cam Talbot is less of a player than you make him out to be. He isn't a bonafide goaltending talent, he's an AHL depth goaltender with potential to be a backup. The Devils have Claremont who is much better than Talbot. The mere fact that you think Talbot can replace an NHL great like Brodeur is ridiculous.

The worst thing is that you include a 2nd from New Jersey. You didn't even offer enough for Parise. If you want Parise, your first offer needs to start with Staal or Callahan.
"Larsson would be a nice addition and I'm willing to give up Del Zotto, but not Stepan. DZ has yet to reach his full potential and it would be better to let him develop. Stepan is one of our younger centers, but put up 45 points in his rookie season, with 21 goals. Anisimov, Callahan, and Dubinsky didn't reach either for some time, Anisimov has yet to score 20. I understand the logic behind the trade, but it just isn't needed. The Rangers have more than enough defensive depth and the mere fact that you think Larsson is suited for top line minutes in his rookie season is ludicrous."

bold: have to give to get.
Also strongly prefer the more physical AA to Stepan
I would start him next to the more shutdown Staal, giving Larsson a little more cushion on rushes. But the D unit will split up enough minutes to get the job done, It's not like our D unit is too old.

"You also have to think about it, would a long time divisional rival like the Devils give up their best prospect in years? No way. Larsson is a stud and is already built for the NHL. The Devils have a lack of puck moving defenseman and Larsson solves that problem.

Stepan would be nice for the Devils, considering he'd solve any center depth problems and would be a great # 2 for them. Del Zotto, despite being a puck moving defenseman won't provide as much appeal to the Devils. He isn't built like Larsson, and is far too inconsistent. The Devils would want more."

IF Stepan and MDZ play to their potential, as it stand now on paper, not certain of how good Larsson actually is, and just making a rough preliminary guess as to that, then Devs get better of deal. If he really is the second coming of ___________ fill in the blank with an elite name, then no, Stepan + Del Zotto are not enough.

As to interconference rival, that is why I said value of at the top. LL would want more, but this is reasonable and immediately profitable value for Larsson TODAY.
If I were LL, I too would hold out to see how Larsson fares. But my point was, IMO, it is profitable for Jersey now.

"The second deal is laughable and absolutely atrocious at best. There isn't any way the Devils would deal Parise to a rival like the Rangers. Parise is a 90 point player and can dominate with Kovalchuk, there's no reason to trade him for scraps in comparison.

Girardi and Boyle have value, but not nearly enough. They're good, but they aren't all stars. Boyle is still a 4th liner, not a top line player, his 20 goal season doesn't up his value by too much. Girardi is a # 2 on the Rangers, but he'd get downgraded to at leas # 3 on the Devils. He's a solid guy to have, but he doesn't produce that much."

Again, Parise on a 1 year contract commands much, much, much less.
You greatly discount the value of Girardi, the shotblocking champ of all non Gs, and Boyle. Also they are very reasonable contracts, which adds to their trade value.

"Cam Talbot is less of a player than you make him out to be. He isn't a bonafide goaltending talent, he's an AHL depth goaltender with potential to be a backup. The Devils have Claremont who is much better than Talbot. The mere fact that you think Talbot can replace an NHL great like Brodeur is ridiculous."

I didn't say as you infer that Talbot is in the category or Brodeur in his prime.
Bordeur will soon go buh-bye, NJ will need competition for that position soon.
Talbot is enough a prospect that, even if he needs more seasoning, he can compete for a roster spot whether they go with 2 or even 3 Gs in the short term as they select both an heir and a backup. Talbot is not the solution, but part of the solution.

"The worst thing is that you include a 2nd from New Jersey. You didn't even offer enough for Parise. If you want Parise, your first offer needs to start with Staal or Callahan."

Again, Parise, one year rental, no guarantees, no big payoff in trade.
If one team is desperate and close to the Cup, they will over pay IF Parise is not injured. And no, I'd rather have Staal/Cally.
Given it is only a 1 year rental, I consider the amount fair.
Let's see Devs play competitively for the whole season and matter --- if not they will have to move Parise of suffer a Richards like Dallas last year.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:06 PM
  #52
MacTruck
In Gordie We Trust
 
MacTruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
Where's Wieze?
He's an extra forward along with Ehverey

MacTruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:07 PM
  #53
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
Correction, I'm asking him to feed me a cookie.
I'm enjoying a nice rant on Tedenby becoming the next superstar that replaces Elias

__________________
Jaime Lannister has better hands than Brian Boyle.
Clowes Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:08 PM
  #54
That Stepan Guy
Jefferek Stepaninner
 
That Stepan Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I'm enjoying a nice rant on Tedenby becoming the next superstar that replaces Elias
Does that happen when the Isles win 10 straight cups.

Must be like the Leafs and Kadri.

That Stepan Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:09 PM
  #55
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Comparing Larsson to Leetch isn't feasible. Leetch was a PMD. Larsson is more of a defensive defenseman with good two way play, much like Erixon. If we are going to talk about potential next Leetch, it's Del Zotto.
While the bold may be an astute observation, surely you are not saying that Larsson does not have high enough scoring potential to be an offensive contributor, and a scoring upgrade over Del Zotto, assuming both play up to potential?

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:13 PM
  #56
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddardStark View Post
So much is wrong with this sentence. Yes, the Devils drafted Larsson to replace Niedermayer, who has been gone since 2005.

Also, the Devils and Rangers are among the only rival teams that refuse to trade amongst each other. It's never going to happen. They wait until the offseason and pick at each others garbage, but that's as far as they'll go.
Thanks for the sp. correction.
again, recognizing the rivalry is likely to not make this real in any event, that is why I indicated near the top it is a "value of" analysis.

Fact: Devs need C, and G, and replacement D for Larsson if traded plus also need offense. And want all these guys young enough, with potential, for cheap.
The proposal realizes this in theory.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:14 PM
  #57
Tyrion Targaryen*
HALFMAN!!!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Casterly Rock
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
Wait, do I get a cookie for acknowledging the Devils and their transition period along with their success?
Better, I'll take you out to dinner. Lobsters stuffed with tacos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Damn, bro, take a chill pill and relax a bit. Like I said it is my opinion and not trying to start an argument, you clearly have other plans. By the way, we've made the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years, so I don't know what this "coming from the team that didn't make the playoffs at all just last season." means... And just because I say declining, doesn't mean you should automatically take offense as if I'm calling your team a pile of crap, which I'm not. But when 2 of your top 5 players are 35+, it takes some time to re-build that. The Devils could very well be great again in 3 years, they don't need a massive re-build, they ain't the Oilers. You took my post and went ape-**** on it, IMO.
The Devils have made the playoffs 12 out of 13 years. And we're the ones declining? Oh, baby. You're cute.

I seem to regard 25 million bucks free next season as a VERY good thing. Did you see what Florida did with all their free cap? They made themselves decent. Can you imagine what the Devils would do if given that same opportunity? A winning organization that, quite frankly, is more successful than your own, whether you'd like to admit that or not.

The Devils lost both Stevens AND Niedermayer. In the same year, for different circumstances. At the time, people thought that too big a hole to dig out. The rest is history. We still prove to be dominating forces in the regular season, not so much in the post season, but hey, I never said my team doesn't have room for improvement. You're the one that thinks your team is one Parise away from a Stanley Cup. It isn't that easy.

Yes, a proposed first line of Parise-Richards-Gaborik does sound absolutely ****ing nasty, I'll be the first to admit that. However, where is the chemistry in that line? Absolute zero. A Canadian, an American and a Slovak. Meaning they've never once played all together. It would resemble the great team that Colorado had back in the day.

Selanne, Kariya, Sakic, Forsberg, Roy. Etc. Great on paper, **** result. Sorry bro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Thanks for the sp. correction.
again, recognizing the rivalry is likely to not make this real in any event, that is why I indicated near the top it is a "value of" analysis.

Fact: Devs need C, and G, and replacement D for Larsson if traded plus also need offense. And want all these guys young enough, with potential, for cheap.
The proposal realizes this in theory.
Stepan is good, but he's not out of this world good, nor does his great year in any way, shape or form hint that. As for MDZ, you want to rid him after one bad year.

The Devils would be utter idiots to accept that deal for the best defenseman they've had since the two Scotties.

Tyrion Targaryen* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:18 PM
  #58
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by In Gordie We Trust View Post
This times 1000.

This proposal is just a special kind of awful. It's like he thought to himself. "What trade would make the least sense possible for both parties?" Then he proceded to combine...a franchise player, a top 5 pick just 2 months ago, and whatever other crap he could find

with

a 20 year old future top 6 center, a 21 year old PMD, the only one in the organization for that matter, a top 4 defender, and anything else to make it look even more unrealistic.

Then he concluded that thought with

"That's it! The most imperfect proposal! Let me post it on HFBoards and let the users rip me apart!"

I just don't understand it.
Please note my responses, including as to the above.
Then feel free to read them 10,000 times to make sure you get it.

Arguably, ballpark close value is there BASED ON PERCEPTION OF LARSSON'S VALUE TO DATE, as he has not actually played NHL yet.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:18 PM
  #59
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddardStark View Post
Better, I'll take you out to dinner. Lobsters stuffed with tacos.


The Devils have made the playoffs 12 out of 13 years. And we're the ones declining? Oh, baby. You're cute.

I seem to regard 25 million bucks free next season as a VERY good thing. Did you see what Florida did with all their free cap? They made themselves decent. Can you imagine what the Devils would do if given that same opportunity? A winning organization that, quite frankly, is more successful than your own, whether you'd like to admit that or not.

The Devils lost both Stevens AND Niedermayer. In the same year, for different circumstances. At the time, people thought that too big a hole to dig out. The rest is history. We still prove to be dominating forces in the regular season, not so much in the post season, but hey, I never said my team doesn't have room for improvement. You're the one that thinks your team is one Parise away from a Stanley Cup. It isn't that easy.

Yes, a proposed first line of Parise-Richards-Gaborik does sound absolutely ****ing nasty, I'll be the first to admit that. However, where is the chemistry in that line? Absolute zero. A Canadian, an American and a Slovak. Meaning they've never once played all together. It would resemble the great team that Colorado had back in the day.

Selanne, Kariya, Sakic, Forsberg, Roy. Etc. Great on paper, **** result. Sorry bro.


Stepan is good, but he's not out of this world good, nor does his great year in any way, shape or form hint that. As for MDZ, you want to rid him after one bad year.

The Devils would be utter idiots to accept that deal for the best defenseman they've had since the two Scotties.
Who knows if Parise, Richards, and Gaborik will have chemistry, sure. But how do you know those players you sign with your 25 million will have chemistry? And please stop with the playoff BS. I guess because the Isles won 4 Cups in a row, it was impossible for them to decline... jesus listen to your logic.

What past accomplishments have to do with the future, I have no idea, maybe you can explain.

Clowes Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:19 PM
  #60
That Stepan Guy
Jefferek Stepaninner
 
That Stepan Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
"Larsson would be a nice addition and I'm willing to give up Del Zotto, but not Stepan. DZ has yet to reach his full potential and it would be better to let him develop. Stepan is one of our younger centers, but put up 45 points in his rookie season, with 21 goals. Anisimov, Callahan, and Dubinsky didn't reach either for some time, Anisimov has yet to score 20. I understand the logic behind the trade, but it just isn't needed. The Rangers have more than enough defensive depth and the mere fact that you think Larsson is suited for top line minutes in his rookie season is ludicrous."

bold: have to give to get.
Also strongly prefer the more physical AA to Stepan
I would start him next to the more shutdown Staal, giving Larsson a little more cushion on rushes. But the D unit will split up enough minutes to get the job done, It's not like our D unit is too old.

"You also have to think about it, would a long time divisional rival like the Devils give up their best prospect in years? No way. Larsson is a stud and is already built for the NHL. The Devils have a lack of puck moving defenseman and Larsson solves that problem.

Stepan would be nice for the Devils, considering he'd solve any center depth problems and would be a great # 2 for them. Del Zotto, despite being a puck moving defenseman won't provide as much appeal to the Devils. He isn't built like Larsson, and is far too inconsistent. The Devils would want more."

IF Stepan and MDZ play to their potential, as it stand now on paper, not certain of how good Larsson actually is, and just making a rough preliminary guess as to that, then Devs get better of deal. If he really is the second coming of ___________ fill in the blank with an elite name, then no, Stepan + Del Zotto are not enough.

As to interconference rival, that is why I said value of at the top. LL would want more, but this is reasonable and immediately profitable value for Larsson TODAY.
If I were LL, I too would hold out to see how Larsson fares. But my point was, IMO, it is profitable for Jersey now.

"The second deal is laughable and absolutely atrocious at best. There isn't any way the Devils would deal Parise to a rival like the Rangers. Parise is a 90 point player and can dominate with Kovalchuk, there's no reason to trade him for scraps in comparison.

Girardi and Boyle have value, but not nearly enough. They're good, but they aren't all stars. Boyle is still a 4th liner, not a top line player, his 20 goal season doesn't up his value by too much. Girardi is a # 2 on the Rangers, but he'd get downgraded to at leas # 3 on the Devils. He's a solid guy to have, but he doesn't produce that much."

Again, Parise on a 1 year contract commands much, much, much less.
You greatly discount the value of Girardi, the shotblocking champ of all non Gs, and Boyle. Also they are very reasonable contracts, which adds to their trade value.

"Cam Talbot is less of a player than you make him out to be. He isn't a bonafide goaltending talent, he's an AHL depth goaltender with potential to be a backup. The Devils have Claremont who is much better than Talbot. The mere fact that you think Talbot can replace an NHL great like Brodeur is ridiculous."

I didn't say as you infer that Talbot is in the category or Brodeur in his prime.
Bordeur will soon go buh-bye, NJ will need competition for that position soon.
Talbot is enough a prospect that, even if he needs more seasoning, he can compete for a roster spot whether they go with 2 or even 3 Gs in the short term as they select both an heir and a backup. Talbot is not the solution, but part of the solution.

"The worst thing is that you include a 2nd from New Jersey. You didn't even offer enough for Parise. If you want Parise, your first offer needs to start with Staal or Callahan."

Again, Parise, one year rental, no guarantees, no big payoff in trade.
If one team is desperate and close to the Cup, they will over pay IF Parise is not injured. And no, I'd rather have Staal/Cally.
Given it is only a 1 year rental, I consider the amount fair.
Let's see Devs play competitively for the whole season and matter --- if not they will have to move Parise of suffer a Richards like Dallas last year.
Del Zotto is a 40-45 point PMD, he really won't be that much, Larsson is a franchise defenseman arguably compared to Nicklas Lidstrom in his prime. The Devils won't give up on a prospect like Larsson. Stepan is the centerpiece in the deal, but is still a relatively unknown commodity. He's coming out of his first year and has decent value. Del Zotto's value has significantly diminished, very few teams want to take on a defenseman with an attitude problem.

Girardi is a great shot blocker, I'm not underrating him, but from a league perspective, he isn't exactly a producer or a great two way player. He provides good defense, but he isn't exactly a number 2 defenseman. He is indeed on a bargain contract, but let's see if the Rangers need him. There's no guarantee we can get an adequate replacement. Boyle isn't on a bargain contract, there's no guarantee he'll be a perennial 20 goal sorer. His value was boosted just a bit, he isn't Ryan Kesler, he's just a 4th liner as of this moment.

You say YOU'd rather have Staal/Cally, but so would the Devils. Don't you think Callahan and Staal have more value than Boyle and Girardi? Staal+ would be more likely for Parise.

That Stepan Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:21 PM
  #61
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
You think Boyle + Girardi + Talbot + 2nd is an overpayment for one year of Parise? I'd like to have what you're smoking. Let's be serious, you can't get 1 month of Parise with that offer.
Key is the bold.
1 year.

Underline = huge exaggeration; Parise is not Stamkos.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:23 PM
  #62
BrianBoyle
Nash goes HAM
 
BrianBoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: On the grass
Country: United States
Posts: 51,725
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddardStark View Post
The Devils have made the playoffs 12 out of 13 years. And we're the ones declining? Oh, baby. You're cute.
You don't judge a team's current situation with past results.

Right now, yes, the Devils have declined. Brodeur is declining, and they, as of now, don't have a goaltender who is prepared to take over the #1 starting spot any time soon. I like Kinkaid and Wedgewood, but they're still 3/4 years away from being legitimate NHLers.

The Devils have a good prospect pool, but they're going to be a bubble team for the next 2/3/4 years or so, IMO. That is what would be considered 'declining', as the Devils were winning division titles as soon as a season ago.

__________________

Neutral Milk Hotel are literally GOAT
Amy Poehler <3

Credit to Ail for the sig.
BrianBoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:24 PM
  #63
That Stepan Guy
Jefferek Stepaninner
 
That Stepan Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Key is the bold.
1 year.

Underline = huge exaggeration; Parise is not Stamkos.
I guess you forget that Parise is a 90 point, 40 goal scorer. He may not be Stamkos, but he has a lot more value than you think.

I'd kill to have Parise on the Rangers, but isn't happening in any way besides free agency.

I dare you to show this to Devils fans, they too will ask for Staal or Callahan.

Like you said, you need to give to get, Offering Boyle + Girardi + Talbot + 3rd Rd. Pick is a lowball.

That Stepan Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:25 PM
  #64
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
You don't judge a team's current situation with past results.

Right now, yes, the Devils have declined. Brodeur is declining, and they, as of now, don't have a goaltender who is prepared to take over the #1 starting spot any time soon. I like Kinkaid and Wedgewood, but they're still 3/4 years away from being legitimate NHLers.

The Devils have a good prospect pool, but they're going to be a bubble team for the next 2/3/4 years or so, IMO. That is what would be considered 'declining', as the Devils were winning division titles as soon as a season ago.
Ahhhh finally some logic comes into help me... How making the playoffs 12 of the last 13 years cancels out Brodeur retiring, a 35 year old Elias, and a team that will be on the bubble for the next few years, I'll never know.

Clowes Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:25 PM
  #65
Scottyk9
Blackhawks bandwagon
 
Scottyk9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Rutherford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 24,429
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Scottyk9
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Key is the bold.
1 year.

Underline = huge exaggeration; Parise is not Stamkos.
If Zach gets moved it will be a similar package that Kovalchuk got... though probably a bit better because Lou isn't a idiot like Waddel is.

1st
young potential top 6 forward
top 4 d-man
B-level prospect.

All irrelevant though Lou would never deal with the Rangers.

Nor the Flyers... in fact the Flyers offered more for Langenbrunner then Dallas did and Lou refused to deal him there....all rumored but a few reliable ppl said the same.

Scottyk9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:26 PM
  #66
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I honestly think the Devs would rather let Parise go to UFA and get nothing for him, than trade him to us before he becomes a UFA and get something. The last thing they want to do is give him to us and let us negotiate an extension and it would also help us immediately this year. The Devs don't want that. They want a bidding war on Parise and are hoping he'll not end up a Ranger and especially hoping he ends up in the West. If we want Parise, we will have to wait until July 1st and win him
This is probably true, so again, why I specified as to "value of".
I think they will take their chances, and if not injured, a reasonably big concern which they can only safeguard against by trading him early, not at the deadline, they will try to move Parise to another team.

But unless there are a lot of bidders with a lot of assets which they can afford to part with, I don't see overpayment for Parise.

The Hawks, for example supposedly have lots of depth at D.
They won't trade a guy like Seabrook, but they might trade 3 or even 4 top D prospects --- because that is where their depth is --- to get a Parise.

Not quibbling about the balance of it, what would you rather have, Girardi + Boyle or the 4 prospects?

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:28 PM
  #67
Tyrion Targaryen*
HALFMAN!!!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Casterly Rock
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Who knows if Parise, Richards, and Gaborik will have chemistry, sure. But how do you know those players you sign with your 25 million will have chemistry? And please stop with the playoff BS. I guess because the Isles won 4 Cups in a row, it was impossible for them to decline... jesus listen to your logic.

What past accomplishments have to do with the future, I have no idea, maybe you can explain.
There's a better chance to build chemistry when you're bringing in more guys. Over time, they'll gel. It's not even like they're all going to be star players. You're trying to get three stud players to (metaphorically speaking) fall in love with each other and perform on the ice. It doesn't work that way. You can't force chemistry amongst all-star players. Just look at previous all-star games, when Sidney and Ovechkin were on the same line. What did they do together in those games? Nada.

What do the Islanders have to do with this conversation at all? I'm sorry if my playoff talk has wounded you. But I do know for a fact certain Ranger fans live for that magical moment in 1994, and think it's going to happen again, and much sooner than everybody else thinks. Mhm, but my logic is somehow flawed.

I think you're just angry that the Devils won 3 cups in 9 years. It's okay, I'd be angry too, it's a hell of an accomplishment, and something you'd hold onto dearly if it happened to your team.

Tyrion Targaryen* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:28 PM
  #68
That Stepan Guy
Jefferek Stepaninner
 
That Stepan Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
If Zach gets moved it will be a similar package that Kovalchuk got... though probably a bit better because Lou isn't a idiot like Waddel is.

1st
young potential top 6 forward
top 4 d-man
B-level prospect.

All irrelevant though Lou would never deal with the Rangers.

Nor the Flyers... in fact the Flyers offered more for Langenbrunner then Dallas did and Lou refused to deal him there....all rumored but a few reliable ppl said the same.
So:

1st
Kreider
Girardi
Hagelin

Is that close? I'm just basing this off of your list. I would certainly consider such a deal, but I would most likely take the offer back.

That Stepan Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:30 PM
  #69
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
We won't get Parise no matter how you look at it. We have $15M in Cap Space next year, the Devils have $25M. Unless Parise refuses to resign, the Devils will have no problem bringing him back. Drop the cap because of the CBA and we might have anywhere from $12-13M. Not close to enough.
This forgets 2 things:
1 Parise may want to play for a contender, and NJ may not be close enough to that by signup time next year.
2 LL may love Parise, but not enough to give him a LeCavalier or Brian Campbell type contract or money. He may be forced to let him go, or get what he can.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:31 PM
  #70
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddardStark View Post
There's a better chance to build chemistry when you're bringing in more guys. Over time, they'll gel. It's not even like they're all going to be star players. You're trying to get three stud players to (metaphorically speaking) fall in love with each other and perform on the ice. It doesn't work that way. You can't force chemistry amongst all-star players. Just look at previous all-star games, when Sidney and Ovechkin were on the same line. What did they do together in those games? Nada.

What do the Islanders have to do with this conversation at all? I'm sorry if my playoff talk has wounded you. But I do know for a fact certain Ranger fans live for that magical moment in 1994, and think it's going to happen again, and much sooner than everybody else thinks. Mhm, but my logic is somehow flawed.

I think you're just angry that the Devils won 3 cups in 9 years. It's okay, I'd be angry too, it's a hell of an accomplishment, and something you'd hold onto dearly if it happened to your team.
Clearly you know I am right, because you ignore the fact that the Islanders declined after winning 4 straight cups. According to you that isn't possible though, because making the playoffs 12 of the last 13 years somehow prevents the future from being bad. "What do the Islanders have to do with this conversation at all?" I LOL at you big time for that statement. Troll be gone.

Clowes Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:32 PM
  #71
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by In Gordie We Trust View Post
Hold up now.

Now you are admitting that you wouldn't want to give up that much for Parise?

THEN WHY WASTE A THREAD ON THIS?!?


People crack me up.
Looking at it as possible expansion of the main deal.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:32 PM
  #72
Scottyk9
Blackhawks bandwagon
 
Scottyk9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Rutherford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 24,429
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Scottyk9
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
So:

1st
Kreider
Girardi
Hagelin

Is that close? I'm just basing this off of your list. I would certainly consider such a deal, but I would most likely take the offer back.
I guess it would be something like that.

Depends on what Lou is looking for. Down the road impact or players who are ready to play now in regards to Kreider and Hagelin.

Scottyk9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:33 PM
  #73
That Stepan Guy
Jefferek Stepaninner
 
That Stepan Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
This forgets 2 things:
1 Parise may want to play for a contender, and NJ may not be close enough to that by signup time next year.
2 LL may love Parise, but not enough to give him a LeCavalier or Brian Campbell type contract or money. He may be forced to let him go, or get what he can.
Lou will have the money to pay Parise, he'll have more than enough money. There won't be a problem in offering a contract.

The Devils are enough of a contender, do you recall when they were without Brodeur and Clemmensen stood on his head? They could very well get a goaltender that can do well and bring them into the playoffs. They have a strong defense and an offense in the midst of a transition.

That Stepan Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:33 PM
  #74
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,223
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Stepan Guy View Post
So:

1st
Kreider
Girardi
Hagelin

Is that close? I'm just basing this off of your list. I would certainly consider such a deal, but I would most likely take the offer back.
Sure, but you're operating under the assumption that Lou would trade Parise to the Rangers, which he wouldn't. Not even if they were the significantly highest bidder.

If you're trading a star player that you think is going to lock up long term, because you have to, the difference between a 1st and a 2nd is not as big as getting that player out of your division/conference. Look where Philly dealt Carter/Richards.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 01:33 PM
  #75
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
Hey Scotty, would you mind opening up a can of reality on your Devil friend... I just can't do it on my own and quite frankly, I'm tired of responding to his idiocy.

Clowes Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.