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Old
08-17-2011, 09:00 PM
  #76
BringBackStevens
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
the organization had it with leaving goalies up to chance. Bob has a ton of question marks right now. Bryz doesnt. Sure, MAYBE this is an impatient move, but its the safer one.


Bryz COULD work for the entire contract, and if not...we say welcome to Adirondack, and he says eff that im going to mother russia.

its really REALLY far in the future to worry about that (not that you don't take it into account...but pieces move around over time)
How the **** is this the safer move? Signing a 31 year old goaltender until he's 40 is extremely risky. Tying up 50 million in a not so young player for 9 years has the potential to backfire massively. I like the guy, a lot, and I'll be thrilled to watch him on this team, but he's getting overrated like crazy. He's good for sure, but that contract stinks.

And Vokoun is becoming criminally underrated. It's insane. Vokoun has been a top 5 goaltender in this league consistently since the lockout. The guy has posted a .919 or higher every year since the lockout on mostly junk teams. Bryzgalov has some pretty good numbers too, but despite the talk that he carried the Coyotes, that's really not true. Phoenix had some very good defensive teams under Tippett.

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08-17-2011, 09:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
How the **** is this the safer move? Signing a 31 year old goaltender until he's 40 is extremely risky. Tying up 50 million in a not so young player for 9 years has the potential to backfire massively. I like the guy, a lot, and I'll be thrilled to watch him on this team, but he's getting overrated like crazy. He's good for sure, but that contract stinks.

And Vokoun is becoming criminally underrated. It's insane. Vokoun has been a top 5 goaltender in this league consistently since the lockout. The guy has posted a .919 or higher every year since the lockout on mostly junk teams. Bryzgalov has some pretty good numbers too, but despite the talk that he carried the Coyotes, that's really not true. Phoenix had some very good defensive teams under Tippett.
Yea, they didn't have a great defensive unit, but had a good defensive system. I would take Vokoun over Bryz with current contracts easily. Sure Vokoun could bust but so could Bryz. And if Bryz starst to stink, we are in a deep pile of shi-t.

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08-17-2011, 11:56 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
How the **** is this the safer move? Signing a 31 year old goaltender until he's 40 is extremely risky. Tying up 50 million in a not so young player for 9 years has the potential to backfire massively. I like the guy, a lot, and I'll be thrilled to watch him on this team, but he's getting overrated like crazy. He's good for sure, but that contract stinks.

And Vokoun is becoming criminally underrated. It's insane. Vokoun has been a top 5 goaltender in this league consistently since the lockout. The guy has posted a .919 or higher every year since the lockout on mostly junk teams. Bryzgalov has some pretty good numbers too, but despite the talk that he carried the Coyotes, that's really not true. Phoenix had some very good defensive teams under Tippett.
Bryz is a safer bet than bob.

Betting that we can do 1 or 2 years of Vokoun and then bob will be our guy isnt as safe a plan.

I like bob a lot, but he's unproven. Bryz is proven, like it or not.

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08-18-2011, 12:09 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Bryz is a safer bet than bob.

Betting that we can do 1 or 2 years of Vokoun and then bob will be our guy isnt as safe a plan.

I like bob a lot, but he's unproven. Bryz is proven, like it or not.
You say this as if in 1-2 years it's impossible to explore other options.

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08-18-2011, 02:10 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You say this as if in 1-2 years it's impossible to explore other options.
SAFER BET.


not impossible, but bryz is a safer bet.


talking about what could've been is another discussion entirely...

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08-18-2011, 03:18 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You say this as if in 1-2 years it's impossible to explore other options.
How many times do franchise goaltenders become available on the market.

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08-18-2011, 03:51 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You say this as if in 1-2 years it's impossible to explore other options.
The problem with the Flyers for years was that we didnt have a franchise goaltender.

Now we do.

Cant people just shut up and be happy about it?

Seriously, you suggest we take a temporary fix in the hopes that Bob will be ready in a year or so, and if he's not we just "explore other options"?

If the last two decades werent proof enough, exploring other options is much easier said than done.

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08-18-2011, 05:05 AM
  #83
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This is great discussion about Scott Hannan.

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Old
08-18-2011, 07:47 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
How many times do franchise goaltenders become available on the market.
I think you are using the term franchise goalie fairly loosely

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08-18-2011, 08:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
How many times do franchise goaltenders become available on the market.
He sure looked like a franchise goalie his last couple times to the playoffs.

I said all spring I didn't want Bryz because of the contract he was going to get, that didn't change when we gave him the contract.

Vokoun was the better option.

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08-18-2011, 08:51 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The problem with the Flyers for years was that we didnt have a franchise goaltender.

Now we do.

Cant people just shut up and be happy about it?

Seriously, you suggest we take a temporary fix in the hopes that Bob will be ready in a year or so, and if he's not we just "explore other options"?

If the last two decades werent proof enough, exploring other options is much easier said than done.
And we wouldn't have a franchise goalie in Vokoun? He's been every bit as good as Bryz.

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08-18-2011, 09:28 AM
  #87
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Bryz' contract *****in sucks but ya know what? I'm tired of these bandaid goalies for the last 10 years. Vokoun's contract looks great but he's a few years older than bryz. I'm just happy to have an above average goalie for a while.

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08-18-2011, 09:41 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by kevinjd182 View Post
Bryz' contract *****in sucks but ya know what? I'm tired of these bandaid goalies for the last 10 years. Vokoun's contract looks great but he's a few years older than bryz. I'm just happy to have an above average goalie for a while.
The contract Vokoun got is robbery for the Caps. Would have been thrilled with Vokoun on a 2-3 year deal.

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08-18-2011, 10:04 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The contract Vokoun got is robbery for the Caps. Would have been thrilled with Vokoun on a 2-3 year deal.
We wouldn't have gotten Vokoun for that price because we wouldn't have waited. Holmgren/Snider are impatient. They took the safe track and got their guy and locked him up. Its not the way I would have done it though.

I wanted Vokoun for 3 years at around $3.5m - $4m, and then let Bob take over after that. I think pretty highly of Bob though because of his athletic ability and work ethic. They took the more known commodity, and we do have a top 10 goalie for the next couple years. Its unfortunate that we then moved our best chance at a cup back to the years where our D and possibly our goalie will be declining.

Also, the NMC is not a good thing. I mean we should have had a good bit of leverage in the negotiations considering the market for the position, yet it seems like Bryz had all the leverage.

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08-18-2011, 10:13 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
We wouldn't have gotten Vokoun for that price because we wouldn't have waited. Holmgren/Snider are impatient. They took the safe track and got their guy and locked him up. Its not the way I would have done it though.

I wanted Vokoun for 3 years at around $3.5m - $4m, and then let Bob take over after that. I think pretty highly of Bob though because of his athletic ability and work ethic. They took the more known commodity, and we do have a top 10 goalie for the next couple years. Its unfortunate that we then moved our best chance at a cup back to the years where our D and possibly our goalie will be declining.

Also, the NMC is not a good thing. I mean we should have had a good bit of leverage in the negotiations considering the market for the position, yet it seems like Bryz had all the leverage.
I would have had no problem with Vokoun on a higher AAV.

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08-18-2011, 11:24 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
We wouldn't have gotten Vokoun for that price because we wouldn't have waited. Holmgren/Snider are impatient. They took the safe track and got their guy and locked him up. Its not the way I would have done it though.

I wanted Vokoun for 3 years at around $3.5m - $4m, and then let Bob take over after that. I think pretty highly of Bob though because of his athletic ability and work ethic. They took the more known commodity, and we do have a top 10 goalie for the next couple years. Its unfortunate that we then moved our best chance at a cup back to the years where our D and possibly our goalie will be declining.

Also, the NMC is not a good thing. I mean we should have had a good bit of leverage in the negotiations considering the market for the position, yet it seems like Bryz had all the leverage.
Yet people refuse to believe me when I say that the way that Snider and the organization handled the whole thing meant that they lost all real negotiating power.

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08-18-2011, 01:02 PM
  #92
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you get a impatient owner and a GM who isnt a very good negotiator and you get the Bryzgalov contract. Look I am glad we finally got a legit #1 but at the cost of a 9 year deal with a NMC? right now it might be ok, but it 4 or 5 years? its not going to be a good situation.
Add into it Holmgren will probably give Bobrovsky away for below market value before the end of his current contract.

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08-18-2011, 01:45 PM
  #93
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Yet people refuse to believe me when I say that the way that Snider and the organization handled the whole thing meant that they lost all real negotiating power.
The organization probably knew that, and apparently didn't give a ****** lol.There's nothing we can do unfortunately, except ***** about it on here.

I'm glad we got Bryz and hopefully he'll remain injury free. If he does he could be a decent goalie into his late 30's. The $5.7m cap isn't that bad, and probably won't look like a detriment as soon as next year when the cap goes up again.

Its funny because we all wanted a goalie, and they got one. A very good one. But they handled it so poorly that we're still complaining lol. If we win a cup or two I think we'll be fine with it. If we don't, 20 years from now we'll be *****ing about that contract that crazy old ******* gave to an overrated Russian goalie.

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08-18-2011, 01:48 PM
  #94
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The organization probably knew that, and apparently didn't give a ****** lol.There's nothing we can do unfortunately, except ***** about it on here.

I'm glad we got Bryz and hopefully he'll remain injury free. If he does he could be a decent goalie into his late 30's. The $5.7m cap isn't that bad, and probably won't look like a detriment as soon as next year when the cap goes up again.

Its funny because we all wanted a goalie, and they got one. A very good one. But they handled it so poorly that we're still complaining lol. If we win a cup or two I think we'll be fine with it. If we don't, 20 years from now we'll be *****ing about that contract that crazy old ******* gave to an overrated Russian goalie.
I think that's pretty much dead on.


I often find myself convinced that this organization still hasn't quite figured out the whole "salary cap" era.

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08-18-2011, 01:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
you get a impatient owner and a GM who isnt a very good negotiator and you get the Bryzgalov contract. Look I am glad we finally got a legit #1 but at the cost of a 9 year deal with a NMC? right now it might be ok, but it 4 or 5 years? its not going to be a good situation.
Add into it Holmgren will probably give Bobrovsky away for below market value before the end of his current contract.
Agreed with the whole post. Vokoun for 2-3 years make much more sense.

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08-18-2011, 02:35 PM
  #96
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Holmgren's moves over the years just scream out reactionary. It seems clear that the organization doesn't have a philosophy of how to structure a winning team under the cap.

They're good at picking out talent but I don't see any carefullness with how the team is put together. It's all knee jerk to what the top teams in the league the previous year were about.

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08-22-2011, 09:32 AM
  #97
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This thread outlines life as Paul Holmgren. Between 12pm on July 1 and 11:59pm on July 2, Holmgren is in a complete panic.

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08-22-2011, 09:46 AM
  #98
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Holmgren's moves over the years just scream out reactionary. It seems clear that the organization doesn't have a philosophy of how to structure a winning team under the cap.

They're good at picking out talent but I don't see any carefullness with how the team is put together. It's all knee jerk to what the top teams in the league the previous year were about.
This. They play catchup every year. They have a hole in the roster, identify that hole (late), and get something to fill in. Unfortunately, they like to weaken certain parts of the roster to strengthen others, or they just ignore other issues (goalie, up until now).

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08-22-2011, 10:08 AM
  #99
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Agreed with the whole post. Vokoun for 2-3 years make much more sense.
and who the hell says that vokoun would sign a 3 year contract. Jesus, you people really make me laugh sometimes. You all know just exactly how the market is going to pan out, you all seem to know that if a player is offered more money they accept too. As if it's as simple as picking up the phone 100% of the time.

People so assured of themselves have never even seen what goes on in negotiations. Really grinds my gears.

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08-22-2011, 10:10 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
and who the hell says that vokoun would sign a 3 year contract. Jesus, you people really make me laugh sometimes. You all know just exactly how the market is going to pan out, you all seem to know that if a player is offered more money they accept too. As if it's as simple as picking up the phone 100% of the time.

People so assured of themselves have never even seen what goes on in negotiations. Really grinds my gears.
You say this like some of us didn't predict what was going to happen with the goalies months ago.

I mean, seriously, this post would be comedic genius if it wasn't so pathetic in it's bitterness.

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