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Best/Worst Trades and Playoffs OT goals

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:09 PM
  #26
MiamiScreamingEagles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Meltzer View Post
The gap between the Flyers and McCrimmon was a mere $25,000 -- Clarke made one offer and stuck with it, then lowered the offer as the acrimony between himself and Pinder grew.

Hextall was also a holdout at one point (ditto LeClair years later). Clarke was more flexible in those cases because 1) He valued those players more than he valued McCrimmon, 2) He had personal differences with McCrimmon and 3) He got along better with Mountain and Gross than he did with Pinder.
IIRC, Tim Kerr and Mark Howe were the two highest paid players entering the 1986-87 season and the counter-argument was that McCrimmon would be paid more than players like Brian Propp. It was a battle over mimimal money, however, and Clarke is on record saying it was one of his worst trades. This was Clarke's quote from sometime in 2004 “In the last 35 years, I don’t know if there has been another team in the NHL that has won more games than the Flyers so I have had lots of things to be happy about. Do I wish I played a couple of more years? Probably. Do I wish I could take back the Dave Poulin trade? Yes. Do I wish I could take back the Brad McCrimmon trade? Yes. But overall, the positives far outweigh the negatives."

The situation with Hextall included the newly appointed agent Ritch Winter, too.

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08-22-2011, 02:54 AM
  #27
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I always viewed the Mike Bullard trade as one of the worst (indirectly) since the flames traded Gilmour for him two months before and Gilmour went on to be praised by Leafs fans for years. Zezel for Gilmour would have been great.

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08-22-2011, 07:18 AM
  #28
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The Coburn deal should replace the Craven/Patterson deal as #5 on the list.

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08-22-2011, 08:19 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
The Coburn deal should replace the Craven/Patterson deal as #5 on the list.

The Coburn trade had steal written all over it from day one IMO.

But the Craven/Sittler trade could even be taken a step further back . Philly traded what I believe was 3-2nds (Inhacek was the only one who turned into anything resembling an NHLer) for around 3 seasons of Sittler, who was then traded for Craven (8 pretty good years) and Paterson (traded for a pick). Craven was then dealt for Dineen (parts of 5 seasons). Dineen was later traded for picks.

I think this trumps the Coburn deal at this point.

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08-22-2011, 08:30 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
upshall trade? i guess not top 5 but top 10
Still not over them trading Upshall. LOL

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08-22-2011, 09:26 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Technically that's not true, I believe one of the picks that they acquired was used to move up and pick Alexander Semin, so they at least got something out of it.
Yeah, I was thinking Semin was an 01 pick for some reason.

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08-22-2011, 09:50 AM
  #32
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What makes the oates trade bad is that previously Quellet was untouchable when Boston wanted him for Ray Borque. Oates was useless and borque wins the cup with the avs.

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08-22-2011, 12:45 PM
  #33
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I thought Sinden wanted Gagne in the Bourque sweepstakes.

One of Clarke's weaknesses and maybe as an organization is that when a "good solidier" no longer becomes usefull we always have to trade him to a really good team instead of searching for the right and better deal IMO

The Oates trade was a classic panic move. The trade sucked, but both Roenick and Primeau got injured a day or 2 before the deadline and they didnt know the severity of the injury. We were down to Marty Murray as our #1 center. Any GM would of held us over a barrell for that. As it turns out none of those players we traded turned into anything.

for me the 2 best trades of recent memory were the trades for Brind'Amour and Leclair/Eric Desjardins. A few years later we got Recchi back for Zubrus and the pick that was used to draft Carkner.

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08-22-2011, 01:43 PM
  #34
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Good:

Bob Froese-G for Kjell Samuellson-D
Fred Meyer-D for Alexei Zhitnik-D (who then turned into Coburn later that year)

Bad:

Dennis Seidenberg-D for Petr Nedved-C
Rod Brind'Amour-C for Keith Primeau-C

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08-22-2011, 04:51 PM
  #35
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That 2001-02 season was a sinking ship regardless. It was no more obvious than when Neil Little finally got his 1st NHL start, and the team in front of him came out and laid an egg. They traded Kent Manderville for Billy Tibbetts for no real good reason, and that was the fastest someone was ever ran out of town.

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08-22-2011, 06:26 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I thought Sinden wanted Gagne in the Bourque sweepstakes.

One of Clarke's weaknesses and maybe as an organization is that when a "good solidier" no longer becomes usefull we always have to trade him to a really good team instead of searching for the right and better deal IMO

The Oates trade was a classic panic move. The trade sucked, but both Roenick and Primeau got injured a day or 2 before the deadline and they didnt know the severity of the injury. We were down to Marty Murray as our #1 center. Any GM would of held us over a barrell for that. As it turns out none of those players we traded turned into anything.

for me the 2 best trades of recent memory were the trades for Brind'Amour and Leclair/Eric Desjardins. A few years later we got Recchi back for Zubrus and the pick that was used to draft Carkner.
He did. And Clarke scratched Gagne from any trade list. Reggie Lemelin, goalie coach at the time, was high on Ouellet. Clarke didn't want to part with him either. Sinden wanted to rid himself of the Dave Andreychuk contract, too, and when Colorado bit, he made that deal. The Flyers (to my knowledge) were never offered a deal that involved Andreychuk. Remember, too, that Bourque didn't win the Cup that season, he re-signed with Colorado and won in 2001. The Flyers supposedly offered, in at least one variation, Mark Eaton/Andy Delmore (a choice), Sandy McCarthy and a high pick. Sinden made what he thought was the best trade for Boston, and what Bourque wanted wasn't topping his list.


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Old
08-23-2011, 09:16 AM
  #37
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Did we just read McCrimmon was just coming of a 13g 56pts +83 season. that is impressive

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Old
08-23-2011, 12:38 PM
  #38
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Did we just read McCrimmon was just coming of a 13g 56pts +83 season. that is impressive
Mark Howe and McCrimmon were partners that year. They were fantastic by all accords.

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Old
08-23-2011, 12:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
He did. And Clarke scratched Gagne from any trade list. Reggie Lemelin, goalie coach at the time, was high on Ouellet. Clarke didn't want to part with him either. Sinden wanted to rid himself of the Dave Andreychuk contract, too, and when Colorado bit, he made that deal. The Flyers (to my knowledge) were never offered a deal that involved Andreychuk. Remember, too, that Bourque didn't win the Cup that season, he re-signed with Colorado and won in 2001. The Flyers supposedly offered, in at least one variation, Mark Eaton/Andy Delmore (a choice), Sandy McCarthy and a high pick. Sinden made what he thought was the best trade for Boston, and what Bourque wanted wasn't topping his list.
I dont think Sinden had any intention of trading him to a East contender unless they fleeced someone. Of course Bourque ended up going to Colorado for Brian Rolston who had a couple of good years in Boston and spare parts/garbage

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Old
08-23-2011, 04:59 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
Did we just read McCrimmon was just coming of a 13g 56pts +83 season. that is impressive
Yes, he was +83. Howe was +85. To make it even more staggering, the rest of the Flyers defensive regulars and part-timers either finished the season at Even (Marsh, Hospodar) or minus (Crossman, Eriksson, Stanley).

Basically, for the 30-35 minutes per game that Howe and McCrimmon were on the ice, the Flyers were the best team in the NHL. When it was any other pairing on the ice, the team was pretty average.

Those ridiculous plus-minus ratings of Howe/McCrimmon don't even take into account all of the power play goals that Howe especially was part of that year. Also, the Flyers were among the top 2 or 3 penalty killing teams in the NHL that year (and they were shorthanded a lot, too).

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Old
08-24-2011, 06:32 PM
  #41
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I've said it a dozen times, I'll say it again. The worst trade was, is, and forever will be Kent Manderville for Billy Tibbets.

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Old
08-28-2011, 06:37 PM
  #42
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Bill has another column worthy of debate or memories:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...rture/45/37769

Quote:
Here's a look at the top 10 playoff overtime goals in Flyers' history. You'll note that three of them occurred on a May 4.

1. Bobby Clarke vs Bruins (May 9, 1974).
2. Keith Primeau vs. Penguins (May 4, 2000).
3. Simon Gagne vs. Bruins (May 7, 2010).
4. Claude Giroux vs. Blackhawks (June 2, 2010).
5. Gary Dornhoefer vs. North Stars (April 10, 1973).
6. Simon Gagne vs. Lightning (May 20, 2004) .
7. Jeremy Roenick vs. Maple Leafs (May 4, 2004).
8. Ilkka Sinisalo vs. Canadiens (May 4, 1987).
9. Mark Howe vs. Rangers (April 10, 1985).
10. Eric Lindros vs. Devils (June 7, 1995).

Honorable mentions:
Eric Desjardins vs. Rangers (May 21, 1995).
Don Blackburn vs. Blues (April 16, 1968).
Howe's OT goal is in my top five.

Additions:

Reggie Leach's goal against Toronto in 1977 finished what may be the most definitive game of that era (minus Cup Finals' games). Probably my favorite Flyers' game of all-time (again, with the exceptions of Finals' games). Greatest comeback in team history.

Dave Schultz's goal in 1974 against Atlanta. What a finish by Schultz after a legendary fight earlier in the game. A comeback that was as impressive, too.

Andy Delmore's goal against Pittsburgh in 2000.

Murray Craven's goal in 1988 against Washington finished maybe the second most impressive comeback in team history. The rest of that series was disgusting, however.

And certainly Joffrey Lupul's goal against Washington. Game 7 on the road in OT.

My top ten:
1. Clarke 1974
2. Leach 1977
3. Primeau 2000
4. Howe 1985
5. Sinisalo 1987
6. Roenick 2004
7. Lupul 2008
8. Gagne 2010
9. Schultz 1974
10. Dornhoefer 1973


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 09-07-2011 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Switched
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Old
08-28-2011, 06:43 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
Good:

Bob Froese-G for Kjell Samuellson-D
Fred Meyer-D for Alexei Zhitnik-D (who then turned into Coburn later that year)

Bad:

Dennis Seidenberg-D for Petr Nedved-C
Rod Brind'Amour-C for Keith Primeau-C
Shut your mouth...



EDIT: Sorry, dont mean to be rude, but in my book that man deserves to never be referenced in anything even remotely negative in regards to the flyers organization, ever.

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Old
08-28-2011, 06:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by markzab View Post
Shut your mouth...



EDIT: Sorry, dont mean to be rude, but in my book that man deserves to never be referenced in anything even remotely negative in regards to the flyers organization, ever.
Easily one of the most clutch tying goals I've ever seen by the Flyers. Even though we lost Rod, we got Primeau, who I still wish was still playing.

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Old
08-28-2011, 07:24 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Bill has another column worthy of debate or memories:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...rture/45/37769



Howe's OT goal is in my top five.

Additions:

Reggie Leach's goal against Toronto in 1977 finished what may be the most definitive game of that era (minus Cup Finals' games). Probably my favorite Flyers' game of all-time (again, with the exceptions of Finals' games). Greatest comeback in team history.

Dave Schultz's goal in 1974 against Atlanta. What a finish by Schultz after a legendary fight earlier in the game. A comeback that was as impressive, too.

Andy Delmore's goal against Pittsburgh in 2000.

Murray Craven's goal in 1988 against Washington finished maybe the second most impressive comeback in team history. The rest of that series was disgusting, however.

And certainly Joffrey Lupul's goal against Washington. Game 7 on the road in OT.

My top ten:
1. Clarke 1974
2. Leach 1977
3. Primeau 2000
4. Howe 1985
5. Sinisalo 1987
6. Gagne 2010
7. Roenick 2004
8. Schultz 1974
9. Lupul 2008
10. Dornhoefer 1973
I'm too young to remember the 70s-80s ones, but my top 5 would include (in no particular order):

Carcillo vs. Devils 2010
Primeau vs. Pens in 2000
Roenick vs. Leafs in 2004
Lupul vs. Caps in 2008
Lindros vs. Devils in 1995

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Old
08-28-2011, 07:27 PM
  #46
MiamiScreamingEagles
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^ "Carcillo, Carcillo, Dan Carcillo." Tim Saunders' best call.

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Old
08-28-2011, 07:57 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
^ "Carcillo, Carcillo, Dan Carcillo." Tim Saunders' best call.
That was such a great moment. Carcillo's reaction made it extra memorable IMO. Also I hate the Devils.

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Old
08-28-2011, 09:13 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by markzab View Post
Shut your mouth...



EDIT: Sorry, dont mean to be rude, but in my book that man deserves to never be referenced in anything even remotely negative in regards to the flyers organization, ever.

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Old
08-29-2011, 12:06 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by markzab View Post
Shut your mouth...



EDIT: Sorry, dont mean to be rude, but in my book that man deserves to never be referenced in anything even remotely negative in regards to the flyers organization, ever.
the Flyers traded the wrong center. I dont care what anyone says, or what he did in that one playoff run. it was a horrible trade.

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08-29-2011, 01:54 AM
  #50
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the Flyers traded the wrong center. I dont care what anyone says, or what he did in that one playoff run. it was a horrible trade.
Wasn't Clarke's fault, he wanted to send Lindros for Primeau, but the old man was having no part in trading away Lindros. Brindy and Primeau would have made for one hell of a 1-2 shutdown punch playing on the same team.

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