the strength thing i was saying didn't have anything to do with the fact that he can or can't win battles it's just that he's recovering from a pretty bad injury and i don't want him to get crunched by huge AHL players................ and i think there is actually nothing wrong with dominating a league and getting physically stonger before turning pro
He could just as easily get crunched in the Q as far as protecting the shoulder goes. I personally don't like to see any draft pick go back to the CHL as an overager, who cares if he dominates younger players? I'd rather see him get his feet wet in the AHL. But it matters not, since it's up to management to opt for what they think is best and my money would be on him going to the AHL.
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Originally Posted by macavoy
Why do you think it will hurt his development to play in the Memorial Cup instead on a depleted AHL roster?
He is projected as more of a strong two way player than an offensive beast at the moment. Playing against younger weaker competition might give him the opportunity to hone some of that untapped offensive potential. Playing against tougher competition in the AHL will force him to focus more on his defensive play imo and I'd like to see him have a chance at developing more offensive upside.
I don't see how playing in the Memorial Cup will be bad for him. Can you explain your reasoning please.
Hamilton should be solid once again, as long as the goaltending holds up (I don't know much about Lawson but have heard he's good at the AHL level).
Playing in the Q as an overager is not what you want to see from your top prospect, playing in a mini tournament like the Memorial Cup would be fun to see but to keep him in a league where he's among the oldest players playing against 16 and 17 year olds imo is not what he needs. He played in the Q and did well, when you turn 20 you go to the AHL, seems logical here as well.
As a 1st round talent, you want players playing in a better league then a lesser one against a lower level of competition.
Why do you think it will hurt his development to play in the Memorial Cup instead on a depleted AHL roster?
He is projected as more of a strong two way player than an offensive beast at the moment. Playing against younger weaker competition might give him the opportunity to hone some of that untapped offensive potential. Playing against tougher competition in the AHL will force him to focus more on his defensive play imo and I'd like to see him have a chance at developing more offensive upside.
I think he has a greater chance of developing those skills in the Q. I also think the competition of playing in the Memorial Cup will be good for him. Its good to have players who are use to winning. Its helped Carey Price & Josh Gorges.
Winning championships helps players develop. Look at the 2006-07 Bulldogs and how many players from that team have graduated to the NHL
Mikhail Grabovski
Andrei Kostitsyn
Matt D'Agostini
Kyle Chipchura
Maxim Lapierre
Ryan O'Byrne
Jaroslav Halak
Carey Price
I don't see how playing in the Memorial Cup will be bad for him. Can you explain your reasoning please.
1. Aside from Price and Halak (and Price was the only reason the Dogs won) the rest is meaningless run of the mill NHL scrubs.
2. Dominating as a 20 year old in the Q has absolutely no value.
He could just as easily get crunched in the Q as far as protecting the shoulder goes. I personally don't like to see any draft pick go back to the CHL as an overager, who cares if he dominates younger players? I'd rather see him get his feet wet in the AHL. But it matters not, since it's up to management to opt for what they think is best and my money would be on him going to the AHL.
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you know what i'm not against the idea that he play in hamilton next year, i won't lose sleep over it, what i'm saying is that ther is nothing wrong going back to junior, i just don't understand why you think it would hinder his development in any way + playing in the memorial cup is a once in a life time experience.......... i just don't see anything wrong with it
you know what i'm not against the idea that he play in hamilton next year, i won't lose sleep over it, what i'm saying is that ther is nothing wrong going back to junior, i just don't understand why you think it would hinder his development in any way + playing in the memorial cup is a once in a life time experience.......... i just don't see anything wrong with it
I just don't like the idea of a 1st round draft pick playing against 16 year olds as an overager. I don't even like to see any of our draft picks play in the CHL as overagers, but I'm guessing the Habs don't seem to like it too much either since it rarely happens. (I think Christian Larrivee was the last one to do this out of our draft picks)
Montreal already explained his reasoning: Leblanc will become better by playing against better competition.
It's like any game really. Say chess. What's the best way to get better at chess? Playing against your little brother who sucks, or playing against good players? If you know nothing about the game, then sure, it's better for you to face someone of similar skill level. But aside from that, you want to test yourself against good competiition.
Lets take a look at history. Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterburg, Tomas Plekanec didnt play regularly in the NHL till they were 23, it didn't ruin their development.
Now lets also think about the talented players who took the shortcut to the NHL, Guillaime Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsyn, Max Pacioretty. They all had problems, maturity and being rushed to the NHL.
MaxPac is the perfect example, he couldn't produce against tougher competition, it wasonly after he was sent down to play against weaker talent and with an amazing player (DD) centering him that he
was able to develop. He himself said playing in the
AHL (a weaker league) was better for him.
David Dashernais played in the CHL as an overager, it didn't ruin him. In fact I think it probably helped develop his hockey IQ. Playing against comparable / slightly less talent gives you the opportunity to grow mentally, you can learn to read plays before they unfold. Whereas playing in the AHL would develop his instincts compared to his hockey IQ. It would involve him learning to react to the faster competition.
That's just how I see it from a mental / development standpoint. You can also compare how DD took the slow route and was able to out produce Lars Eller in half as many games. I think another year in the AHL wouldn't have hurt Eller last year. But 2 years ago I was calling for Patches to be in the AHL andit turned out that playing against weaker competition helped his game.
I was a goalie and have studied psychology so that is the part that I understand better, I could be wrong, I just dontthink it would hurt a players development.
ps he won't be playing against16-17 year olds, opposing coaches will put up their best 18-20 year olds against him.
He didnt dominate last yr ? he was top5 player for Canada at the wjc...thats good enough for me...
only way he goes to Shawinigan if he's not ready to play until January then i could see it (a la Chris Didomenico) but meh...its not happening
Saying he was top 5 at the last WJC is a mythe (unless you are talking stats wise), the kid was good along the board and was cycling the puck rather well but thats it, was struggling with his puckhandling skills if you compared him to the other players and wasnt clicking very well offensively with his linemates.. Another year in the Q wouldnt be a bad idea since he spent about the whole last season playing with a shoulder injury, so the kid didnt develop properly in that year, was also playing for a clown using a passive trap as a system.. An healthy season in the Q dominating the league and having an opportunity to shine at the mem cup is definitely a ligit option IMO.
Might be a result of his injury. Maybe they want to ease him in. Could be they know he won't be back until close to mid season. After a lengthy injury like that it might be good for him to ease back into the game playing Q players instead of being crushed by AHLers.
This is also what I'm thinking (above cooments).
And in the end it should all be about what is best for Leblanc...there's is absolutely no need to rush him, no need whatsoever.
And, if he's 100% healthy (let's say) to play 70 games this season, maybe it will be divided like this:
Shawinigan: 50-55 games
AHL Bulldogs: 15-20 games or less, and then the entire Bulldogs' playoffs depending on how he does (3rd line? 2nd line? 1st line?). Or, they will give him 10-15 AHL games and then send him back to Shawinigan for the Memorial Cup...? (for the experience). We'll have to wait and see what management does...
PROS: could bond well with Bournival and get to be great buddies (great for their future as 2nd or 3rd liners with our Habs) and form a great line...Bournival is a winger that can play center sometimes? (I forget). IMO, Bournival has the potential to be a 2nd or 3rd liner with our Habs, same goes for Leblanc.
Ease Leblanc back after his shoulder injury...not rushing his shoulder is a huge PRO.
CONS: well...there's no rush to his development (imo) since we have Pleks, Gomez (maybe for another year or two...he will become relatively cheap soon, so...value goes up, imo), Eller, Desharnais...all at center. So (imo) there are no cons except maybe if he gets all banged up (AHL) and re-injures his shoulder...let's take our time with Leblanc. He could be a good one if you give him the time to properly develop.
What's stopping him from playing with the Dogs until February, getting his first taste of pro action, and then getting sent down to Shawi for the cup run?
Lets take a look at history. Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterburg, Tomas Plekanec didnt play regularly in the NHL till they were 23, it didn't ruin their development.
Now lets also think about the talented players who took the shortcut to the NHL, Guillaime Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsyn, Max Pacioretty. They all had problems, maturity and being rushed to the NHL.
We're talking about the AHL, not the NHL, so I fail to see your point here.
Quote:
MaxPac is the perfect example, he couldn't produce against tougher competition, it wasonly after he was sent down to play against weaker talent and with an amazing player (DD) centering him that he
was able to develop. He himself said playing in the
AHL (a weaker league) was better for him.
True. But the difference between the NHL and the AHL and between the AHL and the CHL isn't the same. The CHL isn't a pro league, and Leblanc won't learn how to be a pro in the CHL, while the AHL is really a copy of the NHL, but with worst players.
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David Dashernais played in the CHL as an overager, it didn't ruin him. In fact I think it probably helped develop his hockey IQ. Playing against comparable / slightly less talent gives you the opportunity to grow mentally, you can learn to read plays before they unfold. Whereas playing in the AHL would develop his instincts compared to his hockey IQ. It would involve him learning to react to the faster competition.
Desharnais was never drafted, he played as an overager because nobody had offered him a pro contract, not because "it was better for his development". And nobody is saying that staying in the CHL would "ruin Leblanc", just that at this point of his development, he's ready to play as a pro and shouldn't wait for this opportunity.
And staying in the CHL wouldn't be "the slow route", it would be "the very slow route". Again, it's quite rare to see drafted player stay as overagers, for the simple reason that it's generally better for them to play pro in the AHL when they are ready. Overagers are typically good but flawed junior players, yes, like Desharnais.
I completely understand the "dominate the league first" strategy, and subscribe to it in the context of ECHL->AHL->NHL. Junior hockey is different. I wouldn't let one of our draft pick play as an overager in the CHL unless he had real physical deficiencies stopping him from playing with men. This isn't the case with Leblanc.
And anyway, as someone else said, we'll know very quickly what Gauthier has in mind for Leblanc. Lets not call for his head if he makes the very expected move of bringing him in the AHL.
Lets take a look at history. Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterburg, Tomas Plekanec didnt play regularly in the NHL till they were 23, it didn't ruin their development.
Now lets also think about the talented players who took the shortcut to the NHL, Guillaime Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsyn, Max Pacioretty. They all had problems, maturity and being rushed to the NHL.
MaxPac is the perfect example, he couldn't produce against tougher competition, it wasonly after he was sent down to play against weaker talent and with an amazing player (DD) centering him that he
was able to develop. He himself said playing in the
AHL (a weaker league) was better for him.
David Dashernais played in the CHL as an overager, it didn't ruin him. In fact I think it probably helped develop his hockey IQ. Playing against comparable / slightly less talent gives you the opportunity to grow mentally, you can learn to read plays before they unfold. Whereas playing in the AHL would develop his instincts compared to his hockey IQ. It would involve him learning to react to the faster competition.
That's just how I see it from a mental / development standpoint. You can also compare how DD took the slow route and was able to out produce Lars Eller in half as many games. I think another year in the AHL wouldn't have hurt Eller last year. But 2 years ago I was calling for Patches to be in the AHL andit turned out that playing against weaker competition helped his game.
I was a goalie and have studied psychology so that is the part that I understand better, I could be wrong, I just dontthink it would hurt a players development.
ps he won't be playing against16-17 year olds, opposing coaches will put up their best 18-20 year olds against him.
David Dashernais
????? - your arguments are really weak.
-Zetts and Dats maybe only made it to the NHL at 23 but by 18-19 they were already playing in pro leagues.
-Patches played in Hamilton as a 20 year old - what's your point? He was playing against men - not 16 year olds.
-I don't understand the correlation to what you studied.
-Laughable that you can predict which players will be matched against Leblanc.
I don't remember the last impact player that played as a 20 year old in CHL. If Leblanc plays as an overager in the Q, then we can start thinking of Leblanc as a bust.
Saying he was top 5 at the last WJC is a mythe (unless you are talking stats wise), the kid was good along the board and was cycling the puck rather well but thats it, was struggling with his puckhandling skills if you compared him to the other players and wasnt clicking very well offensively with his linemates.. Another year in the Q wouldnt be a bad idea since he spent about the whole last season playing with a shoulder injury, so the kid didnt develop properly in that year, was also playing for a clown using a passive trap as a system.. An healthy season in the Q dominating the league and having an opportunity to shine at the mem cup is definitely a ligit option IMO.
not a myth its just my opinion
Leblanc was switch into different line during the tournament and seem to spark those line once he start playing with them. He was very good defensively all tournament long and was excellent on the PK. He played a real good all around game (one of best Canada 2-way forward)
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wasnt clicking very well offensively with his linemates
Leblanc was switch into different line during the tournament and seem to spark those line once he start playing with them. He was very good defensively all tournament long and was excellent on the PK. He played a real good all around game (one of best Canada 2-way forward)
He has been used on the PK at the start of the tournament but didnt spend alot of time there..
I personally thought Louis couldnt find his role through the tournament, thats the main reason why he was put on different lines every nights.. I dont think he stood out either deffensively, not more than the average Canadian player, they were about all responsible in their own zone, you cant make this team if you dont play a good 2 way game these days.. I dont know how much his injury played a role in his overall performance at the WJC, neither how playing a passive trap with your junior team affected his game but it was certainly not a convincing showing from Louis IMO.. as I said, I think he was good along the board, cycling the puck well but his stickhandling skills as well as offensive flair were without a doubt among the worst of the tournament.. Its coming from a fan who watched the tournament without his pink glasses, while Louis did some things well, he still has alot of room for improvement..
