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08-22-2011, 01:23 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Kovalev had a ton of heart. I might question his smarts at times.
i saw little to know heart with kovalev starting with his second stint with us

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08-22-2011, 02:11 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
While I agree that Zherdev isn't even close to Semin's level, it doesn't change the fact that he is lazy, dives, and is the general anti-thesis to identity that this organization is trying to build.

You want to shell out draft picks on a player? Go get Parise and fix the mistake that was made in the 2003 1st round.
I don't think the Rangers would want to give up what Semin would cost--plus there are cap issues--what's being discussed here is hypothetical. All I was saying was what I said: I can't believe that Semin and Zherdev are being mentioned in the same sentence.

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08-22-2011, 02:15 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
I'm not defending Semin, I think he's a cancer, but I've been wanting to say this for a while, and I think this is the right thread to say it in.

I think some guys on here are pushing their luck a bit regarding forwards playing defensively, don't we have enough guys who are good on both sides of the puck? You can't expect EVERY player to be Ryan Callahan defensively, some of you seem to want a whole team of those players but it's just not possible, scorers are there to score, even Torts knows that. Players gifted with elite offensive AND defensive talent are very few and far between, see Datstyuk, Pavel
I think that's a good point--Tortorella also made mention of it when he discussed what Zuccarello can bring to the team.

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08-22-2011, 02:30 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
I'm not defending Semin, I think he's a cancer, but I've been wanting to say this for a while, and I think this is the right thread to say it in.

I think some guys on here are pushing their luck a bit regarding forwards playing defensively, don't we have enough guys who are good on both sides of the puck? You can't expect EVERY player to be Ryan Callahan defensively, some of you seem to want a whole team of those players but it's just not possible, scorers are there to score, even Torts knows that. Players gifted with elite offensive AND defensive talent are very few and far between, see Datstyuk, Pavel
I think that's a very fair point. However, I feel like Semin isn't the best example to support it. I don't mean to imply that that's what you were doing, but I wanted to qualify my response. You can look the other way when a guy is a defensive liability but is still putting up 40 goals. However, in this case, it's about attitude and his actions on the ice -- i.e. the lazy penalties, poor decision making, and general lack of intensity on many nights.

Going back to my earlier point about being friends with AO, I sometimes wonder what Semin would do on another team where he could be "the guy." Would he excel or would he fold? You never know what you might get with a guy like him; For better or for worse.

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08-22-2011, 02:32 PM
  #80
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He's my favorite player so I'm biased. If he was on and not being a classic Russian whiner, he would be absolutely the best player on the Rangers. He's unreal if he has the space, he's a baby if he doesn't. I would do it just to be able to watch him, and for the 15-20% chance that he is the best player on the ice.

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08-22-2011, 02:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think that's a very fair point. However, I feel like Semin isn't the best example to support it. I don't mean to imply that that's what you were doing, but I wanted to qualify my response. You can look the other way when a guy is a defensive liability but is still putting up 40 goals. However, in this case, it's about attitude and his actions on the ice -- i.e. the lazy penalties, poor decision making, and general lack of intensity on many nights.

Going back to my earlier point about being friends with AO, I sometimes wonder what Semin would do on another team where he could be "the guy." Would he excel or would he fold? You never know what you might get with a guy like him; For better or for worse.
Yes I know Semin isn't a great example, I did clarify I think he's a cancer, I don't want a guy with an attitude like that anywhere near the locker room, which is why I said in my post I'm not defending him, it just felt like a good time to make my point because I just got sick of seeing people say "NO NO NO he can't play defense, he's a floater!" every time someone makes a proposal to bring a top-6 winger here

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08-22-2011, 04:16 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think that's a very fair point. However, I feel like Semin isn't the best example to support it. I don't mean to imply that that's what you were doing, but I wanted to qualify my response. You can look the other way when a guy is a defensive liability but is still putting up 40 goals. However, in this case, it's about attitude and his actions on the ice -- i.e. the lazy penalties, poor decision making, and general lack of intensity on many nights.

Going back to my earlier point about being friends with AO, I sometimes wonder what Semin would do on another team where he could be "the guy." Would he excel or would he fold? You never know what you might get with a guy like him; For better or for worse.
I don't think Semin could be THAT guy. But I really do believe he would be an asset on a line with Artem Anisimov and Ryan Callahan, two incredibly responsible defensive forwards, or any line like that.

He's the perfect complementary player, IMO. Sort of a lesser, less injury prone version of Gaborik. Obviously for this team there's some better (more difficult to acquire) options but let's say theoretically you could get a guy like Semin sans "attitude problems" i'd pull the trigger and never look back.

I don't think Semin's a cancer. He just doesn't have the kind of drive guys like Cally do. Sure, he possibly wouldn't mesh with the guys we have, but you can say the same about Gabby (considering so many here want to question his heart and drive.) Is EC a locker room cancer?

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08-22-2011, 04:54 PM
  #83
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Was in DC last week and had a chance to talk to someone close to the Capitals organization. He basically confirmed everything in the Bradley article and more. Semin's not a guy you're going to count on in big situations. Let him stay in Washington and screw that team up.

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08-22-2011, 05:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Was in DC last week and had a chance to talk to someone close to the Capitals organization. He basically confirmed everything in the Bradley article and more. Semin's not a guy you're going to count on in big situations. Let him stay in Washington and screw that team up.
Screw them up how, though? He did his job and scored 6 playoffs this year. Backstrom was much, MUCH worse in the playoffs than Semin was. The year before i'll give you, but that was just embarrassing for the whole team. In the Caps other two playoff pushes, he's had a PPG. That's what you want from your scorer, no?

Like I said, Bradley complained about people who deserve the ice time not getting ice time, but his line put up a whopping ZERO points in 9 playoff games this year.

I know he's not the perfect locker room guy but you can't put the Caps failures squarely on his shoulders at all.

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08-22-2011, 05:03 PM
  #85
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Screw them up how, though? He did his job and scored 6 playoffs this year. Backstrom was much, MUCH worse in the playoffs than Semin was. The year before i'll give you, but that was just embarrassing for the whole team. In the Caps other two playoff pushes, he's had a PPG. That's what you want from your scorer, no?

Like I said, Bradley complained about people who deserve the ice time not getting ice time, but his line put up a whopping ZERO points in 9 playoff games this year.

I know he's not the perfect locker room guy but you can't put the Caps failures squarely on his shoulders at all.
But the stat sheet doesn't tell you the complete picture.... You want your star forwards to be the type of players who show up and make big plays when everything is on the line in a grueling neck & neck playoff series.... Semin is not that type of player.... You need guys who will battle for you and claw tooth and nail when the going get's tough.... Semin is more of a complimentary role player than anything else.... The criticisms of Semin being thrown out there sound valid to me.... Highly talented? Certainly... Type of player you rely on to carry your team during crucial points of your season? Certainly not.

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08-22-2011, 05:07 PM
  #86
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But the stat sheet doesn't tell you the complete picture.... You want your star forwards to be the type of players who show up and make big plays when everything is on the line in a grueling neck & neck playoff series.... Semin is not that type of player.... You need guys who will battle for you and claw tooth and nail when the going get's tough.... Semin is more of a complimentary role player than anything else....

And there's no problem with having a complimentary talent who can score 60-80 points in any given season with immense offensive talent, who's also shown he can score at a PPG clip in the playoffs.

I guess i'm looking at Semin as a complimentary player while others don't. But as a complimentary player he'd be great. Wojtek Wolski turned up to 11.

I'm not saying the criticisms aren't valid, they absolutely are. Semin is not a guy I build a team around. However, if you take this roster and replace W2 with him on the second line LW spot, you don't think the team gets a much bigger infusion of talent and chance to win on any given night?

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08-22-2011, 05:18 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
And there's no problem with having a complimentary talent who can score 60-80 points in any given season with immense offensive talent, who's also shown he can score at a PPG clip in the playoffs.

I guess i'm looking at Semin as a complimentary player while others don't. But as a complimentary player he'd be great. Wojtek Wolski turned up to 11.

I'm not saying the criticisms aren't valid, they absolutely are. Semin is not a guy I build a team around. However, if you take this roster and replace W2 with him on the second line LW spot, you don't think the team gets a much bigger infusion of talent and chance to win on any given night?
Despite his flaws, I'd take Semin over Wolski every time, just not willing to give up too many assets for him

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08-22-2011, 05:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
And there's no problem with having a complimentary talent who can score 60-80 points in any given season with immense offensive talent, who's also shown he can score at a PPG clip in the playoffs.

I guess i'm looking at Semin as a complimentary player while others don't. But as a complimentary player he'd be great. Wojtek Wolski turned up to 11.

I'm not saying the criticisms aren't valid, they absolutely are. Semin is not a guy I build a team around. However, if you take this roster and replace W2 with him on the second line LW spot, you don't think the team gets a much bigger infusion of talent and chance to win on any given night?
But the problem is that he's often injured, and will soak up a lot of cap space... Gaborik is similar to Semin in a lot of ways, there would just be no room for 2 players of the same mold on this roster... Well you could make room but it wouldn't be wise. You saw what the Bruins did to the Canucks to mitigate their high end talent.... Do you think players like Semin & Gaborik would fare well against a physical team that tries to punish them every chance they get?

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08-22-2011, 05:28 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Rangers4tehwin95 View Post
you think we could get him for a bunch of 1st rounders? our 1st round pick for the next three years

thoughts?

btw it worked with a 1st and 2nd in NHL11

EDIT:
what about Parise if he agreed to an extension
No team in the league would give up 3 first rounders (lot alone 2) for Semin. His enigmatic play is well-documented and hurts his trade value a great deal. He would be worth a 1st and a solid prospect. It would great to get a player of the skill, but he just doesn't fit on this team. Torts would kill him after a couple games.

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08-22-2011, 05:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
But the problem is that he's often injured, and will soak up a lot of cap space... Gaborik is similar to Semin in a lot of ways, there would just be no room for 2 players of the same mold on this roster... Well you could make room but it wouldn't be wise. You saw what the Bruins did to the Canucks to mitigate their high end talent.... Do you think players like Semin & Gaborik would fare well against a physical team that tries to punish them every chance they get?
See but we're constructed differently than that. I know where you're coming from, so i'll say again that Semin isn't my first choice.

However

a top 6 with

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Semin-Anisimov-Callahan

is an awesome blend of grit, work ethic and raw skill. I'm pretty sure Semin can play the LW, right?

I just think Semin gets unnecessarily attacked for Washington's failures. Yes, he's not the perfect player. Yes, it's maddening to see someone with that talent not play up to it consistently. And yes, you can call his heart into question. HOWEVER, to put all of Washington's failures on Semin like some try and do (Washington fans as well) is ridiculous when it's clear they have other problems, especially when Semin scored at a PPG pace during the playoff's before the Montreal upset. I'd gladly take Semin if all other options fail, I feel like he could contribute a lot to this team as constructed.

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08-22-2011, 05:30 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'm pretty sure Semin can play the LW, right?
It's his natural position, if I recall correctly.

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08-22-2011, 05:42 PM
  #92
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We could, we shouldn't.
^
definitely shouldn't. This guy is NOT what the Rangers need.

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08-22-2011, 06:27 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post

a top 6 with

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Semin-Anisimov-Callahan

is an awesome blend of grit, work ethic and raw skill. I'm pretty sure Semin can play the LW, right?
It would be nice and feasibly work under the cap for a year or two, but what happens when your core young players start hitting Restricted Free Agency? We have McDonagh, Stepan, AA, MDZ (potentially), Sauer, etc....

I don't see how we could afford to shell out another big forward contract and still retain the players we've grown to love.... I'd actually prefer not to...

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08-22-2011, 06:30 PM
  #94
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I don't think that Semin is worth 3 1st rounders.
Agree, and on top of that, most of you seem to rate him on a par with ... Heatley

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08-22-2011, 06:43 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
It would be nice and feasibly work under the cap for a year or two, but what happens when your core young players start hitting Restricted Free Agency? We have McDonagh, Stepan, AA, MDZ (potentially), Sauer, etc....

I don't see how we could afford to shell out another big forward contract and still retain the players we've grown to love.... I'd actually prefer not to...
Then we're not going to be able to sign Parise or ANYONE, really.

I try to fit someone under the cap. I'm not comfortable with Wolski as our 1st/2nd line winger unless he realizes he has talent.

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08-22-2011, 07:14 PM
  #96
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Then we're not going to be able to sign Parise or ANYONE, really.
Maybe we could afford to add a $3-4 mil forward to a shorter duration contract once WW's contract expires, but that's about it... I don't see us adding another $7+ mil cap long term cap hit to our books....

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08-23-2011, 06:40 AM
  #97
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Maybe he is an attitude problem. Maybe he is not worth what it would take to get him. But, anyone who thinks he disappears in the playoffs didn't watch the Wash-NYR playoff round last year. He had huge goals in 3 different games. How many Rangers can you say that about since 1994?

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08-23-2011, 07:01 AM
  #98
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Maybe he is an attitude problem. Maybe he is not worth what it would take to get him. But, anyone who thinks he disappears in the playoffs didn't watch the Wash-NYR playoff round last year. He had huge goals in 3 different games. How many Rangers can you say that about since 1994?
He put up 4 points in 5 games against an 8th seeded team, then put up only 2 points against the Lightning. While he didn't disappear, he certainly wasn't annihilating teams either.

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08-23-2011, 07:18 AM
  #99
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He put up 4 points in 5 games against an 8th seeded team, then put up only 2 points against the Lightning. While he didn't disappear, he certainly wasn't annihilating teams either.
He couldn't help who he played against. Again, he had 3 HUGE goals against us last year, in a low-scoring series. Who on the Rangers approached him in impact? Who on Washington was better?

Ovechkin didn't annihilate anyone either, yet he is spared the same criticism.

It's fine to criticize Semin for outside of the scoresheet issues but when he had the puck in the Rangers zone last year, we all cringed with apprehension. Wouldn't it be nice if the Rangers had a player who could do that to the opposition?

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08-23-2011, 09:29 AM
  #100
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He put up 4 points in 5 games against an 8th seeded team, then put up only 2 points against the Lightning. While he didn't disappear, he certainly wasn't annihilating teams either.
2 points in 4 games.

It's not Semin's fault they lost that series. If you have to blame a single forward instead of the whole team? It's Backstrom, no question.

Quote:
It's fine to criticize Semin for outside of the scoresheet issues but when he had the puck in the Rangers zone last year, we all cringed with apprehension. Wouldn't it be nice if the Rangers had a player who could do that to the opposition?
Exactly. I don't care if it's Semin or someone else, but we need that dynamic on our team past Gaborik (when he's 40 goal scorer Gaborik.)

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